How to make a 777 disappear--?

[Panzer Vor!!!]

To blame the pilots/ hijacked gets a lot of people off the hook

[bzn20]

Not sure what off the hook means. There is always something and / or someone to blame.

[SkyMover]

Is that correct that aircraft are not tracked or in radio contact crossing the Atlantic? Only when close to the USA and Canada

No, if they are out of VHF range they can still use HF?

Chris

[hendie]

Ever had the idea we are not getting the full story? All this info from radar, satellite , comms etc. is sneaking out drip, drip a week later. That info was all there at the time.

I completely agree.

Did it really take this long to obtain that information? I would have assumed that they would have been all over every piece of information, no matter how small, or seemingly insignificant, as soon as the aircraft disappeared.

I have several thoughts on the matter. In no order of importance:

I don't believe the pilot suicide theory - if that was the case, why wouldn't the pilot just have pointed it down and hit the throttle? Why change directions and heights.

If, as appears to be the case, several aircraft systems were switched off/pulled - that points to a plan of some description. Those were deliberate acts.

If the information is correct, it appears that someone did not want the aircraft to be tracked.

The only reason I can see for that is if they intended to i) repeat the twin towers scenario, or ii) land the aircraft somewhere for some as yet, unknown reason.

The first option would have happened by now, so that is ruled out, which leaves the second scenario (and possibly others).

What I find disconcerting is that if the plane did fly for several hours after the comms shut downs, with 200+ passengers on board, why did no-one (as far as we know!) make contact with anyone outside of the aircraft.

What ruse was used to keep the passengers quiet?

Generally speaking, terrorist groups are very quick to claim responsibility to highlight their cause, yet we've heard nothing (again, as far as we are aware) - is that because a plan is still to be carried out?

If the aircraft is still intact, and on land somewhere.... why? and for what reason? and what would they need to get it airborne again?

Someone earlier suggested possible use as a weapon delivery system. Unfortunately, that seems all too feasible.

[FLCH]

We can fly over the Atlantic out of radar contact but can use HF or CPDLC for communications with either Gander, Shanwick, Santa Maria or Iceland, we also have VHF 123.45 that will allow us to talk to other airborne flights about turbulence etc within about a 200 nm range, we all also monitor 121.5 just in case there is a distress call from nearby aircraft.

I have no idea what sort of communications set up was on MH 370 though.

[JohnT]

If one wanted an airliner as a delivery system would purchasing or leasing not be a better option rather than drawing attention to this?

No doubt it will become clearer but one suspects a degree of error and face saving might be behind the lack of information

[Dandaire]

I am sure those nice people at Boeing will gladly sell you a 777-200ER for $261, 500,000 (just dont tell them what you want it for). But I can't see them handing over the keys without a sizable deposit or at least the first lease payment. If terrorists have taken it I can't see them having that sort of cash.

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/

[Panzer Vor!!!]

Wouldn't it be easier to steal a truck if you wanted to transport a bomb

Soon as this plane pops up again it will be noticed

If you want to crash it into a building ? Get past the military radars? Too big for low level

How do you fool air traffic control?

Do you kill the passengers?

China aint going to be impressed with Jimmy jong in Korea If he's involved with the death of 150 of their citizens

[Navy Bird]

This new bit of information about the plane climbing to 45,000 ft soon after it disappeared also sounds deliberate. The theory that this was done to incapacitate the passengers by depressurizing the cabin would prevent the type of situation that happened with Flight 93 in Pennsylvania. And if this happened soon enough into the flight, the passengers may not have known that they were off course. Complete speculation of course, but very frightening.

Very strange indeed. The Malaysian government is now officially referring to the incident as a hijacking. I suspect the reason why all of the information has not been released as it became known is due to this being a national security/intelligence matter, and you only release information when it won't compromise the investigation.

Or maybe I've read too many James Bond novels.

Bill

[JohnT]

I am sure those nice people at Boeing will gladly sell you a 777-200ER for $261, 500,000 (just dont tell them what you want it for). But I can't see them handing over the keys without a sizable deposit or at least the first lease payment. If terrorists have taken it I can't see them having that sort of cash.

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/

I was assuming they would go for something a tad older and fourth hand lol

Not like they would need to worry too much about passenger comfort or running a scheduled service

[Panzer Vor!!!]

The Americans did find a document in Afghanistan from Al queda asking fighters to keep the use of mobiles down because of costs

Aslo it pointed out Vodafone was cheaper

[hendie]

This new bit of information about the plane climbing to 45,000 ft soon after it disappeared also sounds deliberate. The theory that this was done to incapacitate the passengers by depressurizing the cabin would prevent the type of situation that happened with Flight 93 in Pennsylvania. And if this happened soon enough into the flight, the passengers may not have known that they were off course. Complete speculation of course, but very frightening.

interesting thought

If one wanted an airliner as a delivery system would purchasing or leasing not be a better option rather than drawing attention to this?

No doubt it will become clearer but one suspects a degree of error and face saving might be behind the lack of information

They could easily have purchased or leased for 9/11 but chose not to. Isn't drawing attention to things part of the terrorist ethos?

[Stu]

Think the old maxim about the truth being stranger than fiction might apply here.

Conspiracy or cock up ? Whichever it's all very bizarre but if I were betting on anything I'd be out over the Southern Ocean looking, unpalatable prospect though it is.

Stu

[Dave Batt]

I also read a speculation where the aircraft is hi-jacked,landed in a rogue state, armed with a nuke and detonated over a soft target , sounded so plausible it was frightening, just speculation however.

Andrew

Why go all the effort of arming it with a nuke, or any other WMD? Just tinker with the transponder of an entirely innocent 777 from a middle Eastern airline on its way to Washington DC, sufficient that the transponder starts looking a bit iffy and raises suspicions, and then leave it to the USAF to shoot it down. A spectacular own-goal on the international stage.

[Richard E]

Perhaps the product of a mind that has read too far much Tom Clancy and Frederick Forsyth in the past.

If Flight MH370 has been stolen (for want of a better word) its captors have already demonstrated that they can do a fairly effective job hiding it from normal air traffic control systems. Does this give them the capability to repaint it in the colours of a triple seven operated by A N Other Airline and then substitute it for another scheduled flight by performing the same "trick" to disable their target's tracking systems in flight and then simply substituting its Squawk Code to MH370 which has been flown to the same general location ?

Edited March 15, 2014 by Richard E

[Van]

Why on earth is it possible to turn off transponders etc manually from the cockpit of an airliner? If I understood what the ex &&& pilot said on the BBC news, this is what seems to be possible.

[JohnT]

They could easily have purchased or leased for 9/11 but chose not to. Isn't drawing attention to things part of the terrorist ethos?

Yes

But not usually before the outrage they plan

[bzn20]

Everything is protected by circuit breakers, pull a CB or even a fuse if ones fitted in the circuit. what ever it was isn't connected any more. In any case If the crew were involved , they could disconnect and remove the IFF altogether, 2 or 4 screws and a plug. I'm not a lecky but the IFF could well be on a battery circuit.

We always carried a spare (IFF) Transponder. If the original fitted IFF goes u/s its replaced with the spare. The code has to be entered manually. I always wonder how secure is that? I'm not sure but isn't the IFF code on the flight plan ? If this 'plane is hijacked could the IFF be coded as another aircraft and if so, what about the flight plan?

Nobody has claimed responsibility If its been hijacked, they would, unless they plan to re use the jet. 9/11 took five years of planning. This lot like a long con. After 9/11 I thought what if they could get one of their own in the cockpit legitimately, like a sleeper, or any where else in important areas for that matter. So have they managed to do just that? The easiest part is to actually take it. Now its got to flown as a weapon with a clone IFF and a flight plan, that isn't going to be easy, I hope, to "fool" the system.

Edited March 15, 2014 by bzn20

[Max Headroom]

If you want to steal an airliner for nefarious means (and I sincerely hope it's not), why something like a 777? There are plenty of old airliners out there that could be bought for 'airfreight' purposes and turned into flying bombs on the QT. As long as it was based near the final destination, one flight is all that would be needed?

This is still weird and a bit sinister.

Trevor

[bzn20]

You don't have to fly to 45,000 ft to kill off the pax and cabin crew. Depressurise above 12,000 ft is enough plus over ride the rubber jungle so it doesn't drop and they just drift off to sleep, that's it. No messages from pax got out by phone (like 9/11) or laptop about being in danger etc. How do you get 238 to totally shut up?

[Panzer Vor!!!]

If it s 238 brits give them free drinks

[bentwaters81tfw]

if it was hijacked, and flew west then north west for 7 hours, that puts it in Pakistan or Afghanistan. Those with any knowledge on what goes on behind the scenes in that locale might speculate a predetermined soft landing.......

As to why, we will have to wait and see.

[bzn20]

With all the airborne surveillance in that area? If they managed all that and weren't picked up,they were good.

[Panzer Vor!!!]

How much runway does it need ? I should imagine the area is being cris crossed by sats as we speak their cant be many places where you can land a 777 rough country

[bentwaters81tfw]

With all the airborne surveillance in that area? If they managed all that and weren't picked up,they were good.

or they were expected.