Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Vally G

Valentine Mk.I and Mk.II - 1:35 - AFV Club

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Here is my first-ever tank project and my first work-in-progress thread on Britmodeller: AFV Club's Valentine Mk.I and Mk.II, with some help from their Mk.IV kit. There will also be bits and pieces from Aber, RB Model and Voyager.

I think the Mk.II will be a Polish tank like the one below (one of very few Valentines photographed from both sides - nice!).

MkIIs1stPolishCorpsScotlandAugust1941_zp

1290295_zps3305d6e8.jpg


I am not sure yet what scheme the Mk.I will have, but it will be a tank that used an earlier track type (more on these later).

The hulls and turrets are actually almost finished. There are some bits and pieces still missing from each, the most obvious of which are the headlights on the Mk.I, which I haven't gotten around to doing yet. In these two photos the Mk.II is on the left and the Mk.I is on the right.

IMG_3713_zpsc542df2e.jpg

IMG_3716_zps70bdfe9e.jpg

In the photos above it is easy to see the shorter storage box on the right fender of the Mk.I. Mk.IIs either had one long box as pictured or a second long box immediately behind the first one.

Also easily seen above is the absence of any cover over the muffler on the Mk.I. Early Mk.Is had a mesh cover (which is reproduced in photo-etched brass in the Mk.I kit), but this apparently quickly fell out of fashion in favor of the style of cover seen on the Mk.II. As I don't know exactly which Mk.I I will be doing, I have not added the cover yet. (The solid cover is certainly an easier prospect in terms of fitting it to the vehicle.)

In the next two photos the Mk.I is on the left and the Mk.II is on the right.

IMG_3719_zps8aaff4e1.jpg

IMG_3718_zpsd220246f.jpg

The Mk.I normally had only one hinged door (the left one) for the engine compartment whereas the Mk.II had two, but some Mk.Is had two hinged doors. The open place in the right fender on the Mk.I where there is a hinge mount on the Mk.II has been filled, and the support for the open right-hand door is absent.

The Valentine sported different wheel styles which were not entirely mark-dependent. Most Mk.Is had the Cruiser A9/10 "spoked" type seen on the left below, and most Mk.IIs had the "dimpled" type seen on the right.

IMG_3720_zps744b9584.jpg

AFV Club only gives you the spoked wheels in their Mk.II kit. I took the dimpled wheels for my Mk.II from AFV Club's Mk.IV kit, which I got both for its wheels and to have some spare parts for all of my screw-ups.

Coming up next, the turrets...

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, on to the turrets.

For those of you who have seen my contribution to IanW's Matilda/Valentine thread, this will be old news, but there were two different mantlet types found on the Mk.I/II/IV-style turret as shown in these crops from period photos.

MantletType1_zpsce2afd87.jpg

MantletType2_zps139185ea.jpg

These also show the differences between the two types of barrels seen on Valentines, at least near the base. Mk.Is commonly had the elegant Matilda-style 2-pdr barrel, whereas Mk.IIs (and Mk.IVs as well, I think) used either this barrel or the type found in the kit, a stepped affair both at the base (as can be seen in the photos) and near the business end.

Here are my efforts so far on the Mk.I (left) and Mk.II (right) kit turrets. (Yes, Mk.II turrets also had periscopes and not big, gaping holes; I just haven't added the mounts for them yet.)

MkIandMkIITurrets_zps3204087e.jpg

IMG_3721_zps5ddec269.jpg

IMG_3722_zps3a1b73fa.jpg

The Mk.II turret has the AFV Club barrel and the Mk.I has a Matilda-style barrel from RB Model. (I have not drilled out the hole in the Mk.I mantlet yet, which is why the barrel is sticking out too much.)

Perhaps not apparent at first glance is the difference between the two right-side pistol ports (seen in the top and bottom photos above), the one on the left having a more angled profile and the one on the right having a more rounded one. Both of these styles could be found on both marks, as could the left-side port seen on the Mk.II turret in the middle photo above.

I tried to make mantlet on the Mk.II like the Type 2 above by using Miliput and a brass Besa barrel from RB model, which really looks the part.

First the Mk.I

IMG_3725_zps2ebf6b04.jpg

Now the Mk.II

IMG_3727_zpseb651b82.jpg

The Mk.I has the antenna set-up used with the No. 11 wireless, while the Mk. II has the two antenna set-up used with the No. 19. Both of these set-ups could be found on both marks. The brass antenna mount on the left side of the Mk.II turret is from RB Model.

IMG_3724_zps28d9c295.jpg

IMG_3728_zpsa6d03ac7.jpg

And next, the tracks...

Edited Feb. 8 to revise mantlet remarks

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Four types of tracks were seen on early Valentines.

1. The "stretchy watchband" type seen here:

CruiserIIITracks_zps92bf78d6.jpg

2. One similar to the double-pin type found on the Cruiser A9/10 that looked like this:

EarliestValentineTracks_zps2e94ecb4.jpg

3. Another double-pin design that looked like this:

ValTrack2_zps0ca7b8e4.jpg

4. A more reliable single-pin type that would be used on all subsequent Valentine marks and looked like this:

ValTrack3_zpsf557186a.jpg

The AFV Club Mk.I, Mk.II and Mk.IV kits all come with one-piece vinyl versions of the last of the three styles above, along with a few individual plastic links for use as fender-top spares.

Being a beginner at this and wanting to paint the tracks seperately from the vehicle and add them only at the end, and wanting the tracks to have some sag to them, and having no idea what I was supposed to do with the vinyl tracks, I got a set of AFV Club individual plastic links. The clean-up involved with these, including having to get rid of two ejector-pin marks in each of 200 links, was beyond the level of my patience and I ended up getting a set of Fruilmodel metal tracks for my Mk.II. Here they are in all their splendour:

IMG_3707_zpsd0fa7a15.jpg

IMG_37222_zps0f745d32.jpg

IMG_3723_zps5eb13b44.jpg

So that's the tracks for the Mk.II sorted, but what about the Mk.I?

I thought it would be good if the two models had as many differences as possible, so despite my experience with AFV Club's individual plastic links, I got Bronco's 'Mk.I Early Type Workable Track Link Set', which is their interpretation of the second of the three styles.

These tracks are made up of two pieces each and there is a third piece which represents the double-pin connector. Maybe I should just show the illustration on the back of the box:

EarlyTrackInstructions_zps166af0b2.jpg

Here are the three types of pieces after clean-up, which is easy but tedious and time-consuming (but not soul-destroying like the aforementioned AFV Club links):

IMG_3700_zps4cd05656.jpg

And here is a close-up of the two pieces that make up the actual track.

IMG_37182_zps87ef3417.jpg

Following the instructions, you should put the tracks together like this, but how can you avoid getting glue on the pins?

IMG_3750_zpsa228b0f2.jpg

Answer: You can't, and too much glue does indeed 'influence the action of movable', as it says on the box.

I needed a Plan B and came up with the following construction sequence:

Step 1: Glue the two track halves together (and neaten up the seams - or try).

IMG_3701_zpsb615cac2.jpg

Step 2: To connect two of the above links, first cut a pin piece with a razor blade.

IMG_37202_zps2b04089d.jpg

Step 3: Put one of the two pin pieces (the longer one) where it should go. Put a small amount of super-glue on the tips of the other pin piece and insert it where it belongs. Apply gentle pressure to these two pieces and you end up with something like this:

IMG_37212_zps881ac0e8.jpg

Step 4: Repeat the process.

These two runs of ten each are what I have managed so far. They move absolutely freely.

IMG_3703_zps2601b90b.jpg


That's where things stand for now with these two models.

Kind regards and thanks for looking,

Adam

Edited on Feb. 12 to replace an erroneous photo (the third image after the Bronco track instructions)

Edited on Mar. 11 to add another track style.

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Ian. I will be following your work closely as well.

After looking through more period photos, it seems that the plain front wheels that I took from the Mk.IV kit are not suitable for my Mk.II, whose front wheels were dimpled like the rest, so I may end up with a Mk.IV. The one pictured below would fit the bill, though I would have to scratch-build the hook-shaped items on either side of the muffler cover.

08891_zpsbef67244.jpg

MkIVT47314_zpsf8cb28dc.jpg

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Continuing on the wheel theme, in the two photos of the Mk.IV above, one can clearly see that the hub covers on the idler wheels are different from each other, the cover on the left idler having what I am now affectionately referring to as a "nipple" whereas the one on the right is plain.

You can see this difference very well here on this Russian Mk.IV's pie-plate-style idlers:

IdlersMkIVKubinka_zps2c4f3710.jpg

The situation was the same on the spoked style (these are the idlers on Mk.I 16067)

16067MkI_zpsf125dfa6.jpg

as well as on the dimpled style:

RODNEY40thRTR23rdAB8thAD28July1941withMa

IdlerMkII_zpsc0754df3.jpg

So, one wanting to have reasonably accurate spoked (Mk.I) or pie-plate (Mk.IV) idlers using the respective AFV Club kits simply has to perform a "nipple-ectomy" on the right one. If one wants to have something approaching accuracy on a Mk.II with dimpled wheels, one needs two extra of the larger dimpled wheels to use as idlers, the left one of which will need a nipple graft.

If I put the Mk.II on the back burner and wait until the recently announced AFV Club Mk.III kit is available, I can use a couple of dimpled wheels from it as idlers for my Mk. II as well as build a Mk.III, or I can get another Mk.IV kit for the wheels and build myself another Mk.I, since I have an extra set of the spoked-style wheels. Decisions, decisions...

In the meantime, the track-building continues.

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again.

After looking at more pictures of Mk.I and Mk.II Valentines, I must revise my comments on the mantlets (and have revised my turret post above accordingly). Although the Mk.I appears to have had only the Type 1 (my name for it) mantlet with the square hole for the Besa, I now see that both types were used on the Mk.II. I am embarrassed to admit having overlooked them on my first couple of perusals of Dick Taylor's book 'Into the Vally' :doh:, but there are a few examples in it, including a New Zealand tank, a desert Valentine, and the "Russian" Mk.II below, that have the Type 2 mantlet.

17527BRCMkII_zps973b1e34.jpg

I guess one should never make sweeping generalisations when it comes to the Valentine. rotwerden.gif

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great detail work look forward to seeing the finished articles :goodjob:

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Keith and Crossy!

Track-building is proceeding slowly (due to my short attention span) but I should have one side done by the end of this weekend.

Kind regards,

Adam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Adam,

Thanks again for more great detail - hope you don't mind, but I am compiling all your info into one Word doc for future use - you are providing a wealth of information spread over this build, so trying to keep it all together!

If you want a copy once completed, of course no problems! :)

Cheers,

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Jack: Thanks a lot. Nice to have you along.

@ Ian: I don't mind at all. I am really glad you find it useful.

I have finished one side's worth of Bronco's early tracks (68 links per their recommendation at the moment, but I may add one more).

IMG_3741_zpse0c132be.jpg

The tracks take longer to put together than they should because the "teeth" on either side of the guidehorn piece don't sit flush after the long edges of the two pieces are glued. This results in there having to be a second gluing step using extra thin cement and a little bit of pressure to reduce the gaps that are visible in the photo below.

IMG_3729_zps59f72cd4.jpg

And speaking of gaps, below you can see that there is too much space between the guidehorns on the Bronco track.

IMG_3737_zpsaed63f96.jpg

I said above that there are 68 links but I may add one more. I am not sure about this yet as before I can do a proper test-fit, I need to figure out how to alter the sprocket pieces in the kit to accept the ones with fewer teeth (below) that were included with the tracks.

IMG_3742_zpsa31954f1.jpg

They bear more than a passing resemblance to those I've seen in photos of Miniart Valentine sprues. (Ian, can you confirm that these are the same article?)

Kind regards and thanks for looking,

Adam

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Adam,

Yes, the drive sprockets above are almost identical to the Miniart ones, except they have only 14 teeth, whereas the Miniart items have 21... same number of bolts though and otherwise seem identical.

HTH,

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent work and love all the research, can't wait to see more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Paul: Thank you very much. Also nice to have you along.

@ Ian: Thanks for the confirmation. I don't know what I will do with this knowledge yet, but thanks. :)

Kind regards,

Adam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings from Vally Forge. :)

I have succeeded in combining the Bronco/Miniart sprockets shown above with the AFV Club kit pieces.

First I filed down the Bronco sprocket pieces to make them thinner.

Then I filed one AFV Club sprocket piece down. Below you can see what the piece looked like before and after.

IMG_3744_zps82b9b02a.jpg

Sandwiching one each of the pieces and fitting the result to the vehicle showed that I still had some filing to do as the teeth did not line up with the road wheels.

This was as far as I could file the AFV Club pieces down and know that they were the same thickness:

IMG_3745_zps349a11e8.jpg

Another dry-fitting and more thinning of the Bronco pieces was done until things looked right, and then I glued the above pieces to the Bronco pieces.

All that was left was to add the outer, drum-like AFV Club pieces, but before I could do that I had to make the depression in the Bronco pieces a little shallower by adding three disks cut from 0.2 mm-thick styrene sheet. Here is one of the finished combination products next to the AFV Club drive sprocket:

IMG_3746_zps4dfcbf38.jpg

Both combi-sprockets from the outside:

IMG_3747_zps6f419be5.jpg

And one on the vehicle:

IMG_3748_zps82da10d9.jpg

They are not the last word in accuracy, but they'll get the job done.

A photo or two of the tracks fitted will follow soon.

Kind regards and thanks for looking,

Adam

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a photo with the tracks fitted:

IMG_3751_zpsa158833b.jpg

I added one more link than the recommended 68, but they may be a bit too droopy. I will put 68 on the other side and then decide which number of links looks better.

Kind regards,

Adam


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Ian.

Looking at the photos earlier in the thread I realize I hadn't done anything about the seam on the rear of the turret on either model. Easy enough to remedy on the two-antenna turret but not the easiest thing on the other one with the antenna mount sitting over the seam. Luckily this turret had the good sense to take a rather nasty tumble which resulted in most of the antenna mount breaking off.

IMG_3757_zpsfd901b06.jpg

I will be using the opportunity while the antenna mount is separate from the turret to add a little detail to it. More on this later.

Kind regards,

Adam

P.S. FYI, Ian, it's not really that important, but I replaced the third image after the Bronco track instructions in the third post of this thread, so you may want the current one in your Word compilation.

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

First, Happy Valentine's Day! :wub:

I have taken a break from track-making to start adding some detail to the above-mentioned antenna mount. I thought I would work on the antenna mount off the turret, but for what I wanted to work on first it was better to have it on.

Here is a real No. 11 Wireless antenna set-up on the Mk.II 'Penelope' in London in 1940 (still from British Pathé film footage):

PenelopeLondon1940VII_zps649806f9.jpg

And here is what I have done so far, using a few bits from wire-stretcher photo-etch sets in 1:48 and 1:72 and a piece of 0.1 mm wire.

IMG_3762_zps27078227.jpg

The chain and the spring will be next.

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited by Vally G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a very interesting build, I shall follow this with interest

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, Roger and Ian.

After breaking it off the turret again (with my fumbling fingers this time), work on the antenna mount has been progressing slowly. I didn't like the two-dimensionality of the PE wire stretcher, so I fashioned something out of brass tubing (not sure I like it either!). Adding the spring was "fun" and in the end it is too fat and too long, and there should be more chain links hanging from the antenna base. Oh, well.

IMG_3767_zpsb61ccd70.jpg

IMG_3769_zps20f6d977.jpg

IMG_3770_zps7934bd57.jpg

IMG_3771_zpse6a84b99.jpg

I would say "better luck next time", but I am confident that any other Vallies I build will not have the No. 11 antenna!

Kind regards and thanks for looking,

Adam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks great, nothing wrong with any of it! And have copied your photos to my references so I can try and do half as well if I model a no.11 one day! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×