NZ Armour, QA Squadron Matilda and Valentine

[IanW]

Hi,

Have been sticking together Tamiya's Matilda. Intending to finish as tank used by Queen Alexander's Squadron during WWII.

Used the shorter cupola in the kit and added a turret ring guard, as the few pics I can find of NZ Matildas seem to have both of these features. Also, the Bronco Type 5910 (spudded?) track links just turned up on the doorstep!



Will finish in S.C.C.2., as QA Sqn didn't seem to re-camouflage their vehicles, as other NZ units did.



...and just started the AFV Club Valentine, a great kit but it seems to have a million parts compared to the Tamiya kit! I know that it has the wrong type of wheels for a Mk.II, so intending to fill in with mud. Or might buy the Accurate Armour correct pattern... Will add track shields and paint as an early Valentine delivered to New Zealand in Khaki Green 3, really just to stand out against the Matilda.



Cheers,
Ian

Edited January 31, 2014 by IanW

[stevehnz]

Nice, I'll be watching this & hoping for some pointers toward my ones in the smaller scales.

Steve.

[IanW]

Cheers Steve. I've been scouring Jeff Plowman's books and emailed him a few times too, so hope to get it as right as I can! Feel free to point out any errors please...

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

I will be following this with interest as I am working on two AFV Club Valentines at the moment (a Mk.I and a Mk.II) from three kits (one each of Mk.I, II and IV).

The AVF Club kits are very well done, but they should have done some more research before releasing a Mk.II kit whose six marking options cannot be built with what's in the box.

The later, "dimpled" wheels can be found in their "Russian" Mk.IV kit, which also has issues with regard to the markings vs what they want you to build.

All of the above-mentioned kits have only one of the two mantlet types that were used in the Mk.I/II/IV-type turret. Most if not all of the Mk.Is had the Besa machine gun coming through a square hole whereas many Mk.IIs and all (?) Mk.IVs featured a mantlet that differed in there being more material around where the machine gun came through a round hole. (I will post some photos when I figure out how to do it.) Also, AFV Club only offers one of the two styles of barrel that were found on these early marks.

I have spent a lot of time with these kits and I think I've made almost every mistake that can be made along the way, so if you need any advice, don't hesitate to ask. In the meantime, I can tell you to be very careful with the small, thin parts like handles. They are very brittle and can disintegrate between your fingers!

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited Feb. 8 to revise mantlet remarks

Edited February 8, 2014 by Vally G

[IanW]

Hi Adam, thanks for that - didn't know about the mantlet and barrel, so keen to see any pics when you get the time, thanks!

Yep, the kit has a LOT of parts, thanks for the heads up on the brittleness.

I also have the Miniart Valentine V - I know that kit has a few shape issues too, such as the engine doors, wheels, etc, from the Perthmodelling website - any other fish hooks you know about, please?

Cheers,

Ian

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

Here are some period photos of the two types of mantlets. They also show the differences between the two types of barrels, at least near the base. Mk.Is commonly had the elegant Matilda-style 2-pdr barrel, whereas Mk.IIs (and Mk.IVs as well, I think) used either this barrel or the type found in the kit, a stepped affair both at the base (as can be seen in the photos) and near the business end.





Here are my efforts so far on my Mk.I (left) and Mk.II (right) turrets. The Mk.I has the antenna for the No. 11 wireless while the Mk. II has two antennas for the No. 19. Both of these set-ups could be found on both marks.



The Mk.II turret has the AFV Club barrel and the Mk.I has a Matilda-style barrel from RB Model (I have not drilled out the hole for it yet, which is why it is sticking out too much.)

I tried to make the mantlet on the Mk.II like the Type 2 above by using Miliput. A brass machine-gun barrel from RB model will go into the hole.

As for your fish-hook question: In your photo above, see those three identical-looking pieces above and to the right of the circle in the middle of the sprue, just above the two little fender skirts? They are not all identical - putting the right piece in the right place will ensure that the shield over the muffler will fit properly. Care is needed when removing these pieces from the sprue as well.

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited February 8, 2014 by Vally G

[foxy]

Nice research Ian.

Looks like you have the MG mount sorted on the Mk II, nice work.

Cheers foxy

[Hamden]

This is an interesting project that I will follow with interest

Roger

[IanW]

Thanks for the detail and the pics, Adam - great work on the turrets, very nice. I will recheck my references for the vehicle I'm building.

And thanks for the heads-up on the 'fish-hooks'! I was more referring to the Miniart Valentine kit! (Although your point will be very useful!)

[Paul Ayrey]

Great subjects, looking forward to your progress.

[IanW]

Just by the by - have been looking through the Miniart Valentine V kit and they provide both Mk.I and II types of mantlet, as well as the Mk.V one.

So I will try and use the Miniart one for my AFV Club Valentine Mk.II... it looks like it will fit with a bit of trimming. (And I had just bought some Milliput as well... )

Cheers,

Ian

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

I see now that you meant Miniart fish-hooks. I must be getting old.

It's interesting that the even though the Miniart kits are less accurate than the AFV Club offerings, they didn't overlook the differences between the Mk.I/II mantlets. Go figure.

I am wishing you much luck in making the Miniart part work in your Mk.II.

Kind regards,

Adam

[foxy]

Did you know Ian that there is a brass MG for this weapon out and about, but maybe you will use the plastic one with the kit.

Like your Matilda, I am doing the Australian version for the pacific, this also had the extra armour around the turret ring.

Great work.

Cheers Foxy

[IanW]

Thanks Foxy - no I didn't know about the mg, not sure if I'll go to town on the kit or not but will check out the price. Do you know the make please?

Cheers,

Ian

[foxy]

Ahh. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name. but know they came in two pieces and were not much in price.

May not be around now, but will check and see from me sorces.

If your really serious will find out.

Cheers foxy

[Crossy]

Great work mate, looking forward to seeing more

[IanW]

Thanks again for the heads-up, Adam - on going back through my references, it seems the first Valentine IIs NZ received were fitted with the early barrel but the later mantlet... a detail I had missed until you mentioned it! Looks like I'll be able to use the extra Matilda barrel in Tamiya's Matilda! (Along with the AFV Club mantlet) And I particularly want to do an earlier II, as I want to try painting it in KG3, to stand apart from the Matilda.

Not sure if your thorough British tank-knowledge spans to Matildas as well, but on the off-chance...

There seems to be a port about right 3/4 rear on the Matilda's turret. In the Tamiya kit it is roughly square-ish, but on one photo of a NZ Matilda I have, this port (?) is round. Do you have any ideas on what this port is and with which Matilda versions it changed shape, please?

Cheers,

Ian

Edited February 2, 2014 by IanW

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

The Valentine is the only tank I have any knowledge of, as it is the first and only tank I have ever tried to build. One learns from one's mistakes, as they say!

Maybe you are referring to the pistol port? The New TMD offers lots of Matilda goodies, including various noses and mantlets and a detail set that includes both a round and a square port. Check it out.

The early Valentine marks also had different pistol ports, but these don't seem to have been dependent on the mark. In my photo above of the two AFV Club turrets, you can see that the port on the left turret has a more angular profile whereas the one on the right has a more rounded profile. Some turrets also had another, different-style port on the left side (you will find this port in your AFV Club kit). Unfortunately there are very few Valentines which were photographed from both sides (what were they thinking?! ), so it is difficult to know what port combination a specific tank had.

As for Foxy's MG, it is probably No. 35B64 from RB Model. I have a couple of these, which are very nicely done; one will go in my Mk.II. SKP also offer Besa barrels in a longer, one piece style, which, while slightly less detailed than the RB offering, may be more suitable for one's purposes depending on how one plans on replacing the barrel in whatever kit they are building.

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited February 2, 2014 by Vally G

[IanW]

Thanks again, Adam - yes, the pistol port, funny how as soon as you start looking at something, you suddenly find more and more info about it. After I posted my question, I opened my Valentine book and noticed the different pistol ports straight away!

Thanks for the links too.

Cheers,

Ian

[IanW]

Spent some time building up the suspension today - despite my complaint about the number of pieces, I really feel like I'm building a piece of engineering... the suspension even works like the original! AFV Club have produced an exceptionally well-engineered kit in my opinion.- why the same level of attention-to-detail couldn't be applied to the decal/wheel choices seems strange.

Working on the Valentine also beats tackling the 'spudded' Bronco Matilda tracks sitting there, staring at me...

And just read online that AFV Club are going to release a Valentine Mk.III with rotatrailer later this year - apparently, this kit comes with all 3 types of Valentine wheel!

Are there many external differences between a Mk. III and Mk. V?

Edited February 4, 2014 by IanW

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

In Dick Taylor's 'Into the Vally' it says that hull-wise the Mk.III and Mk.V differed only in the engines inside them (AEC and GMC, respectively, like in the Mk.II and Mk. IV). I haven't looked closely at photos to see if there are any differences between the turrets.

Nice work on the suspension. I forgot to put a poly-cap in one of the arms on my Mk.II and had to do some surgery, but the patient recovered well and there are no noticeable scars.

Those Matilda tracks look like they will be as much fun as the early Valentine ones. No, I take that back, as it looks like you only have two pieces to deal with. Are they the snap-together type?

I have seen photos of the upcoming AFV Club Mk.III on the PMMS site. It has two different colors of plastic, was built up with some Mk.I features (spoked wheels and only one hinged rear door), and has strange green headlamps and other "clear" parts. Interesting to hear about the three wheel types.

Kind regards,

Adam

P.S. I am glad to know that at least one person is following my new Valentine thread and that posting my progress there will not be in vain. Cheers!

Edited February 4, 2014 by Vally G

[IanW]

Here's the link re. the Mk. III wheels... http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1390301081/AVF+Club+new+Valentine+and+Wheels

Not totally conclusive evidence, but here's hoping!

Just spent an evening removing the Matilda tracks from the sprues - need lots of light to try and glue together though! Not snap-fit...

Yep, keep posting on the Valentine please- I am learning lots!! I'm more into aircraft than armour, but as an ex-QA tankie, have a special spot for their vehicles. NZ seems to have had quite a few Valentines in the day, wish I had paid more attention to the rusting hulks dotted about the Waiouru landscape!

Cheers!

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for that link. It shows what I suspected: a new set of dished wheels in addition to the dimpled wheels (except for the idler) found in the Mk.IV kit and the spoked type found in the Mk.I/II kits. If you want to do a Mk.II with dimpled wheels and a proper dimpled idler, you're still out of luck as far as AFV Club is concerned.

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited February 4, 2014 by Vally G

[IanW]

Aah, I see what you mean! Have you seen The Accurate Armour wheels - seem to recall reading somewhere that they were a bit small in diameter though??

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowProduct.cfm?manufacturer=0&category=4&subcategory=192&product=1712

[Vally G]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the link. I have seen those and thought about getting them (before I had my Mk.IV kit), but I was unsure about how they would fit on the AFV Club kit.

If I put the Mk.II on the back burner and wait until the AFV Club Mk.III kit is available, I can use a couple of dimpled wheels from it as idlers for my Mk. II as well as build a Mk.III, or I can get another Mk.IV kit for the wheels and build myself another Mk.I, since I have an extra set of the spoked-style wheels. Decisions, decisions...

By the way, I have discovered another issue with the idler wheels, at least as regards the spoked, dimpled, and Mk.IV pie-plate styles, which is that the hub covers differed. The covers on the left have what I am now affectionately referring to as a "nipple" whereas the ones on the right are plain. You can see this difference in the Mk.IV photos in the last post on my Valentine thread. I will post some more examples there when I get a chance.

Kind regards,

Adam

Edited February 5, 2014 by Vally G