Westland Lynx Prototypes

[palacefan]

And re the design and looks. Unfortunately, in this day and age, looks, design flair and pride and individuality are not things the current batch of designers have an interest in. Its all about what the computer model says and has nothing whatsoever to do with looks. Its called 'design minimalism' wich reads as idleness, a lack of pride and most importantly, not wasting a penny on things that are deemed as pointless. Gone are the days of designers (one or two lead designers on a programme) who had a sole input to the 'look' of an aircraft and we now have 'chief designers' who are merely project managers. Not an AW speciality but across the board. Name me a good looking aircraft form the past 15 years or so?

I know the chap who designed the nose personally (dstl not AW) and his input was purely from a functionality perspective. Its all to do with angles, reflectors and what is going to be mounted on the nose. Tis a shame that no leeway is allowed to account for looks. If you want to make it look nice, the current batch of designers seem to think thats impossible cos all they know is what the computer pushes out. AW proudly mute that Wildcat is the first aircraft they've designed entirely in the virtual environment. I would suggest its nowt to be proud about. Its akin to first year design students producing the Austin Montego..... And they still persist in pushing the myth that the nose and tail are designed to be 'Stealthy'. Utter garbage. its down to production and manufacturing simplicity pure and simple. Why spend time and money producing a stealthy nose and tail if you dont bother with the rest of the airframe? You cant do stealth half arsed. Its all or nothing. Yet another marketing ploy from Somersets best heli manufacturer.....

And next week boys and girls, I'll tell you all about how awesome our Wildcat simulator is.... (boy, this is making wikileaks look like Jackanory!)

First of all, great work on the detective work on all the Lynx, very useful and informative, thanks.

Secondly

I worked for a second tier company as a design engineer on the Wildcat, and I do respect everything you say, and understand your frustration, you are living with the problems after all.

But you are mistaken when you say that the designers are lazy and that we have no pride in what we do. I am very proud of the hard work i put in on this aircraft.

I have friends who became ill from the stress and workload whilst on this project.

I could list arguments against most of what you have said regarding the design, but i don't want this to become a bun fight.

All I will say in our defence is this. If computers really do push out designs on their own, then it would have been designed for even less money in even less time.

The design was done to a very tight budget and timescale and any overspend was not in the structure design or electrical installation design.

I was in many a design review where final decision were made with the MOD, and 90% of them had a uniform on.

and thirdly,

Good looking aircraft designed entirely on CAD (in my opinion), A350, AW139, A400M, 787, and this will be also.

[IGKent]

Interesting information, Tony!

[Dave Fleming]

Thanks Tony, very useful.

Looking at this, perhaps there is some redemption for the old Matchbox Lynx after all (now available in a Revell box with single dooor windows). I always thought the tail was of the mock up, but perhaps it might match the prototype.

That said, the Frog one appears to have the early WG13 nose........

Edited February 3, 2014 by Dave Fleming

[Lynx7]

Yep very good point and it was only when I compiled this piece that I realised that both the Airfix 1/72 and the Matchbox kits are actually pretty accurate! The Airfix kit has the prototype type of upper roof windows and footwell windows and larger more rear set exhausts but with new doors and tail. And as you say, the Matchbox one is one of the preproduction aircraft. May have to dig in to the stash and build one of the original Matchbox Lynx I have (I have the Frog kits too - most def prototypes)

[heloman1]

Hi Tony, Looking at XW839 the Pink Lynx, the day seems overcast, so I'm assuming the shade of pink/hot sahara is looking darker than it should. The cabin roof and top of the skids look lighter so I assume that might be closer to the colour and you note re the paint under the grey one at the Helo Museum looks even lighter! Any thoughts as to a match?

Colin

[Lynx7]

Hi Colin,

You're correct re the Farnboro pic of XW839 appearing darker. I've matched the colour from how it is currently underneath the grey and it appears to be more of a Salmon Pink. Bear in mind that the colour as it is now, may be a little faded from original too.

I've Dropper'd the colour and then filled a square with the hue. If youre interested, its HTML hex comes out as #dd8bc, R 221, G 139, B 92. Hue 15, Saturation 167, Level 157. Nearest colours are: Testors 1170, Vallejo 70.935 #185 (trans orange) or Humbrol 61 :-D

[heloman1]

Hi Tony. thanks for the speedy reply. Humbrol 61, for some strange reason! I looked at it earlier and thought na, it's got to be something more exotic.

We'll see how it turns out.

Colin

[Lynx7]

Its a bit of a difficult one to judge due to virtually no photos of it in its original colour (pink). I only have the one and thats the one I've posted. All others are of it in the grey.

I did however find this little gem. I knew I had an original Westland brochure dated 1973-74 somewhere around the house and as luck would have it, I found it stored safely in a photo album. It really is an interesting bit of 'salesmanship' and I'm sure it was written by Tom Clancy (pretty sure Agusta Westland still have a group of novelists writing their PR and marketing literature....).

What interests me most of all is the photos in the brochure as most havent appeared anywhere that I've found on the net. One in particular is this one:

I count 8 prototypes in this picture and have managed to identify them all.

From nearest to farthest;

1. XX153 - Camo, first AH1 type.

2. XX510 - second HAS variant.

3. XW838 - Light blue short nose.

4. XW836 - Grey short nose converted to Westland 606

5. XW837 - Red short nose

6. XW835 - Yellow peril. First prototype

7. XX904 - First French prototype in dark blue/yellow scheme (as seen on the box of the old Frog Lynx kit)

8. XX907 - AH1. Not 100% on it being this one but my Hercule Poirot skills deduce it to be this one.

If anyone knows any different, please let me know.

I've deduced it is these airframes firstly down to visual ID and secondly by the fact the publication is dated 1973. I dont know the actual construction date (only first flights) of the prototypes but the publication date will discount certain aircraft to the rear of the picture. For example, none of the blue ones could be XX469 as this crashed in 1972

[gingertitan]

I would like to model the first flight lynx XW835 (the yellow one). What kit would be the best? I think there are three kits that depict the prototype/early lynx's, frog - novo - matchbox. I have the novo, but that depicts XX907 with the standard army nose, not the short stubby one. Is this nose included in either of the matchbox or frog kits, or should I be looking at a different kit altogether?

Edited December 24, 2014 by gingertitan

[Dave Fleming]

The Frog and Novo kits are the same kit. Although the Frog box top might suggest an early version, the plastic is more production based

http://frog.cocardes.com/westland-lynx-ref-f256

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8293/7624278440_543a8124f2_h.jpg

My Matchbox kit has standard noses as well

Edited December 24, 2014 by Dave Fleming

[heloman1]

Hi Dave, interesting mention of the Matchbox Lynx kit. I don't remeber this one, is there a chance you could post pics of box art and spruse. It's one Lynx kit I don't have in my collection. Last month I laid hands an early issue Airifix (03054) Lynx kit, decals are for an 815 NAS. HAS 3 aboard HMS Exeter 1987.

Thanks in advance.

Colin

[Blue Monday]

Well done Lynx7 on some very solid research into the Lynx prototypes. Prototypes in general are a neglected subject and helicopter prototypes are all but forgotten. I have done a little research into the various Hughes OH-6 and H500 prototypes and the one thing I have learned is that a significant part of rotary wing history has not been recorded in any significant way and has been all but forgotten.

The interesting things about early kit releases featuring brand new aircraft is that they often depict prototypes and not the full-production spec airframes. I think this annoys a lot of people but for those interested in prototypes, they are a God-send. Kits like the Frog Lynx and the first Hasegawa 1/72 AH-64 Apache (and the 1/48 Airfix Apache) are kits that depict prototypes.

Does anyone have a photo or two of the yellow-top French Naval Lynx prototype that features on the Frog decal sheet? It looks like an interesting scheme. Thanks.

BM.

[Dave Fleming]

Hi Dave, interesting mention of the Matchbox Lynx kit. I don't remeber this one, is there a chance you could post pics of box art and spruse. It's one Lynx kit I don't have in my collection. Last month I laid hands an early issue Airifix (03054) Lynx kit, decals are for an 815 NAS. HAS 3 aboard HMS Exeter 1987.

Thanks in advance.

Colin

This was the original art:

http://www.matchboxkits.org/product_info.php?cPath=27_35_52&products_id=630

Then they changed it in the Black box series as in this link:

http://www.matchboxkits.org/product_info.php?products_id=667

If you want one, the current Revell kit (4409) is actually the Matchbox kit, witha slight tooling change to give the single cabi window as opposed to the triple windows on the prototype.

https://www.scalemates.com/products/product.php?id=112058

[worm]

Hi,

I think the 4-shot pod fitted to XX907 was either a early mock-up for TOW or HOT. My late father, Eric Wearmouth, was on the Lynx weapon's trail flight and they had to work out which would of been best for the AAC. The choice was TOW, HOT or Hawkswing/Swingfire, in the end they pick HOT but the powers to be said TOW was better (cheaper), and the large '235' on XX910 is indeed a Paris 1975 show code.

All the best

Steve

Edited October 2, 2015 by worm

[Truro Model Builder]

If my research is correct the first Lynx flight was May 25th 1972.

Colin

21 March 1971, only two days after I made my 'first flight'. Now they're retiring the Lynx and replacing it with a new model.

I hate it when SWMBO looks at me like that.

[pk-king]

hi lynx7

I'm a lynx fans from China ,I google lynx info link to here while I'm making a matchbox lynx prototype model.

this's great infos!!!

there are some lynx prototype infomations in chinese web，but lots of those infos error

so I want to translate this artic into chinese and post it on my personal website ( http://matchbox.top81.com.cn )

my website is a Non-commercial site, just military and model info

 

of cours, i'll keep your signature and your artic source

May i get your authorization?

it will help me and our chinese lynx fans a lot

Edited February 5, 2018 by pk-king

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

@pk-king you might not get a reply: I haven’t seen @Lynx7 post on here for a long time.

 

 

[pk-king]

8 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

@pk-king you might not get a reply: I haven’t seen @Lynx7 post on here for a long time.

 

 

thanks

[Dave Fleming]

Ignore

Edited February 19, 2018 by Dave Fleming

[Harrywilliams]

Anymore news on this?

[Blue Monday]

Two recent videos that have popped up on youtube that might be of interest. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRsL1NUkOmo&t=1s

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5m3A1RZVHw&t=4s

 

BM.

[Blue Monday]

I am doing some research for a possible Lynx prototype build using the Matchbox Lynx. Looking at the various photos of XW835, 837 and 838, they all seem to have been fitted with an electronics rack in the rear cabin. Video footage of 835 also appears to indicate that a flight test engineer was also seated in the rear cabin, presumably to monitor the information being collected by the electronic boxes in the rear. Does anyone have a photo of the rear cabin of one of these prototypes with the electronics racks and flight test engineer's seat fitted?

 

XW838 also appears to have the co-pilot's seat fitted facing rearwards for a period, presumably for the flight test engineer to monitor things in the rear.  I'd prefer to build a three-seater Lynx prototype if at all possible.  Thanks for any assistance anyone can offer.

 

BM. 

[Blue Monday]

I wonder if anyone might have any other photos of this Lynx, F-ZKCV/XX911?

 

 

I am interested in building a model of this Lynx but I am unsure if it was equipped with two or four missiles during the test depicted in this photo,

 

While the Aeronavale tested the AS12 missile on the Lynx prototype, they never fitted them to their standard-production aircraft because the AS12 missile was retired in the early 80's, as far as I can tell. There are plenty of photos of Royal Navy Lynx carrying four Sea Skua missiles but many of these seem to be promotional-type photos from the manufacturer as opposed to a configuration that was flown operationally. I'd imagine that a four-missile configuration, with Sea Skua or AS12, would be a heavy load-out for the Lynx and it wouldn't be able to carry too much fuel as well. The AS12 is a bit lighter than the Sea Skua so maybe this test was flown with four missiles fitted. I also found this drawing which shows the Lynx fitted with four missiles, but again, this could be based on a configuration heavily promoted by Westland. The AS12 is second from the right.

 

 

 

I also found this quote online:

 

"  -Lynx HAS Mk 2 and Mk 2 (FN): first version of the naval Lynx powered by Rolls Royce Gem 2 turbines with a wheeled landing gear instead of skids, a rotor and a folding tail, a harpoon to facilitate landings in rough seas on a small platform. Their basic armament for the ASM fight consists of two torpedoes or two depth charges and for the anti-surface fight of two Sea Skua missiles (FAA) or two AS12 missiles."

 

This mentions the Lynx being fitted with two AS12s. 

 

Does anyone know of any good references for the early French Lynx, even French language books, magazines or websites that might answer my query? Thanks.

 

BM.

 

EDIT (19/03/2022): I have found a few old magazines from the 70's that feature the early Lynx prototypes. All seem to indicate that the Royal Navy and Aeronavale tests with the AS12 missile involved the helicopter flying with four missiles. I have also found a photo of an in-service production-standard Aeronavale Lynx and that is carrying four missiles too. It turns out the Aeronavale did fit their Lynx helicopters with the AS12 and only retired them in 1991 after the Gulf War.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Blue Monday

[Blue Monday]

Does anyone have a photograph of the instrument panel of Lynx prototype XX153, or indeed a photo of the instrument panel of any of the standard Lynx prototypes (XW835 to XW839) or XX907?  I am scratchbuilding an instrument panel for a model of XX153 and would love to see a panel so that I can attempt an approximation of it. Thanks.

 

BM. 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

On 3/19/2022 at 3:22 PM, Blue Monday said:

Does anyone have a photograph of the instrument panel of Lynx prototype XX153, or indeed a photo of the instrument panel of any of the standard Lynx prototypes (XW835 to XW839) or XX907?  I am scratchbuilding an instrument panel for a model of XX153 and would love to see a panel so that I can attempt an approximation of it. Thanks.

 

BM. 

There are some good pictures of XX910 (one of the RN HAS2 pre-production prototypes) in the Walkround section.  Not quite as early as the airframes you’re looking for, but pretty early.  The instrument panel is definitely test configuration as opposed to anything operational; instruments to read control positions etc.

 

By the way, your earlier question re missile loads; I definitely flew a Lynx HAS3S with 4 x Skua, albeit mainly as a loading exercise for my deck crew.  It was perfectly feasible in North Atlantic conditions, though obviously there was a weight / fuel trade-off.  Since almost all of the Sea Skua’s operational career was in the Gulf War (and mighty successful it was, too), the heat would probably have made 4 weapons un-realistic - but I think I am right in saying that they flew with 2 Skuas on one side and a Yellow Veil jammer on the other side.  @Chewbacca would know more; I never operated a Lynx in the Gulf.

 

Bearing in mind that the Lynx/Skua combo was originally envisaged as an anti-Soviet missile FPB weapon in and around Norway; 4 Skuas would have been very doable up there.