Hawker Hurricane: some questions about service in Red Army Air Force on the Stalingrad front.

[Mahno]

Greetings colleagues!

Congratulations from Russia with New Year and Christmas past !

There are a few questions about Hawker "Hurricane" in the service of Red Army Air Force on the Southwestern and Stalingrad fronts.

Who can tell about such an interesting (but completely incomprehensible !) personal emblem on the hood of this" Hurricane " Mk.II (B?):

Photo :

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/4250430044004380442043E043D044B043643904180410041F042704350440043D044F043D043A04300071941_zps3121928e.jpg.html

Сolor drawing:

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/445044304400438043A04364180410041F0_zps52a0b8b1.jpg.html

Aircraft illustration by Basil Zolotov - http://basilzolotov.com/.

Can anyone come across something like this???

Interested in any information on the British ( or other ) fighters , to use such a wonderful heraldry!

There are also doubts about serial number Z2342 on this machine ... Can anyone check it, whether such aircraft was delivered to the USSR under Lend-Lease?

If someone owns such information, including the combat application of " Hurricane " in the Red Army Air Force on the Southwestern and Stalingrad fronts, especially about 235 IAD (Fighter Aviation Division), much to ask to share , I would be very grateful!

photo on the subject:

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/445044304400438043A0415043B0438044104350435043204300_zps8f1c0ef8.jpg.html

V.Eliseev - pilot (right ) in his plane " Hurricane " II.

Fighter rearmed - 2xShVAK , 2xBS , 6xRO under RS-82 .

436 IAP(Fighter Aviation Regiment), 235 IAD ( 1st form ) , 8th VA(8th Air Force), Stalingrad Front , summer 1942.

Biography ( in Russian language) :

http://www.testpilot.ru/review/isp/eliseev.htm

Edited December 31, 2013 by Mahno

[Troy Smith]

Greetings colleagues!

Congratulations from Russia with New Year and Christmas past !

There are a few questions about Hawker "Hurricane" in the service of Red Army Air Force on the Southwestern and Stalingrad fronts.

Who can tell about such an interesting (but completely incomprehensible !) personal emblem on the hood of this" Hurricane " Mk.II (B?):

Photo :

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/4250430044004380442043E043D044B043643904180410041F042704350440043D044F043D043A04300071941_zps3121928e.jpg.html

Сolor drawing:

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/445044304400438043A04364180410041F0_zps52a0b8b1.jpg.html

Aircraft illustration by Basil Zolotov - http://basilzolotov.com/.

Can anyone come across something like this???

Interested in any information on the British ( or other ) fighters , to use such a wonderful heraldry!

There are also doubts about serial number Z2342 on this machine ... Can anyone check it, whether such aircraft was delivered to the USSR under Lend-Lease?

If someone owns such information, including the combat application of " Hurricane " in the Red Army Air Force on the Southwestern and Stalingrad fronts, especially about 235 IAD (Fighter Aviation Division), much to ask to share , I would be very grateful!

photo on the subject:

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/445044304400438043A0415043B0438044104350435043204300_zps8f1c0ef8.jpg.html

V.Eliseev - pilot (right ) in his plane " Hurricane " II.

Fighter rearmed - 2xShVAK , 2xBS , 6xRO under RS-82 .

436 IAP(Fighter Aviation Regiment), 235 IAD ( 1st form ) , 8th VA(8th Air Force), Stalingrad Front , summer 1942.

Biography ( in Russian language) :

http://www.testpilot.ru/review/isp/eliseev.htm

Hi Mahno

If you look on Sovietwarplanes, in the lend Lease section, there are several threads on Lend Lease Hurricanes.

I would post this up there, as it would be of interest.

There are several member there who are here as well though

There is a member on Sovietwarplanes, Konstatin Lesnikov/KL, who is very knowledgeable about these subjects of Soviet VVS units. May I repost the pictures there?

It always easier to discuss when photos are posted, so I've used your links.

I'd like to make some observations about the photo vs the profile. I'd not want to be to dogmatic, but in general it seems red stars were applied by the British before delivery.

While many profiles show RAF markings overpainted with AMT-4 Green for example, careful study rarely shows this.

Also, yellow outlined stars are rare, usually white or silver.

The plane in question Bort # 53, this, and the plane in front are more likely in Day fighter Scheme [dark green/ocean grey uppersurface, medium sea grey undersides] , the planes after 53 look to be in Temperate Land Scheme, [dark green dark earth uppersurfaces, sky undersides]

why?

look at the undercarriage doors, and compare to the prop spinners. same or similar tone I take to mean TLS.

EDIT- also, I think the 'red band' on the spinner is just the shadow of the moving propeller. The red band would be a neat touch, but I can't see it.

Again, this proves what is becoming almost a motto...'Never trust a profile without a photograph!'

The emblem on the nose is fascinating, and I've not seen this photo before, so thank you very much for posting this question.

Can't help on the serial.

this plane looks to have TLS, note spinner and underside are same tone

I hope this helps, Soveitwarplanes is not loading at the moment.

cheers

Troy

[Miggers]

Hurricane Mk.II Z2342 also served with 302(Polish)Sqn,being used by P / O W. Kaminski

to down a Ju.88 on 28/03/41 before being sent to Russia.

[Troy Smith]

Hurricane Mk.II Z2342 also served with 302(Polish)Sqn,being used by P / O W. Kaminski

to down a Ju.88 on 28/03/41 before being sent to Russia.

Cheers Mark

Any idea of the date sent to Russia?

T

[Learstang]

Privyet, Mahno and welcome to the site! Interesting Hurricane, as it has the Soviet armament of the two UBK .50 calibre and two ShKAS 20mm wing guns, and the RO rocket rails under the wings. I've always wanted to do a Soviet Hurricane with the Soviet (re-)armament.

S Oovahzhyenyem,

Jason

[Miggers]

Well Troy,by 28th of May,302 had been posted to Jurby on IOM and didn't return

until the 18th of August 1941.

By November of the same,they were converting or had converted to Spit V's.

Our man's colour plate above has 1942 on the descrition,but I don't read Cyrillic....

Had it gone out there with 151 Wing,or was it a genuine Lend-Lease jobbie?

[Troy Smith]

Well Troy,by 28th of May,302 had been posted to Jurby on IOM and didn't return

until the 18th of August 1941.

By November of the same,they were converting or had converted to Spit V's.

Our man's colour plate above has 1942 on the descrition,but I don't read Cyrillic....

Had it gone out there with 151 Wing,or was it a genuine Lend-Lease jobbie?

Hi Mark

i was asking, as it might help if had been repainted in DFS, if with an RAF squadron when the change happened, then DFS it is.

I've seen both on VVS Hurricanes.

All the 151 wings planes I've seen appear 'new' and also have tropical filters.

The cyrillic capitoon mostly says

"436 IAP(Fighter Aviation Regiment), 235 IAD ( 1st form ) , 8th VA(8th Air Force), Stalingrad Front , summer 1942."

the only bit not quoted says

Aerodrom Chernyanka, Uro-Eapadyii front, iuli [july] 1942

My cyrillic is pretty poor, and it's hard to transliterate in English, so my transliteration may not be very good. Cyrillic is kind of fun, as once you get an idea, some things that look like complete gibberish suddenly become words you know... something that is looks a bit like 'XAPPNKAH' become 'Hurrikan'... the 'N' should be backwards

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script

and the mildly amusing for the Brits that is VVS in Cyrillic becomes BBC...

and here's one you'll recognise..

though literally it's 'SPITFAIIR' sort of....

Cheers

T

[Test Graham]

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?board=50.0

This is the link for sovietwarplanes: Lend-Lease aircraft. As you will see (and Troy said) there are a number of threads about Soviet Hurricanes. There is also an Osprey publication dedicated to Soviet Hurricane Aces which may be of interest.

[Mahno]

Wow, seven responses for three and a half hours ...

I did not expect this!

Many thanks to colleagues for a genuine interest in my questions, especially in such a short time!

But now I celebrate the New Year and a little bit in no condition to drive meaningful conversation ...

So I apologize colleagues and will continue our research tomorrow ...

Once again I congratulate all a Happy New 2014 Year! Hurray!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJnqAx5N9Y

Za zdorov`e!

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi, interesting image. I've tried to enlarge some details.

It seems that at least three planes on the line had particular heraldries.

The first one has a small painting on a light stripe just behind the propeller. To my eye, it seems a sort of 'Super-Tigger', a flying tiger with two bombs in its arms.

Plane n.53 has (obviously) a white-black hood; its tail number is hardly readable, perhaps because it was originally painted on a darker background, and a lighter color was repainted all around in not accurate way; the light color on the rear fuselage is clearly lighter than the one on the nose. The wheel door is dark, much darker than the following planes of the line, so I suppose that it was grey, not sky.

The last plane of the line shows a light dot on the nose, but the emblem is unrecognizable.

Regards

Massimo

[Troy Smith]

The nose art is fascinating Massimo, but I think the first plane just has most of the paint flaked off the nose ring, not a design!

I've noted on other VVS Hurricanes mismatched removeable panels [in one case, wings in DFS, fuselagein TLS] , so the engine panel behind does not have flaked paint.

Be interesting to know where the image has been scanned from, as it's from a book or magazine, so there must be a better print ...somewhere!

cheers

Troy

[Test Graham]

It is quite normal for Hurricanes to show paint removed from the nose ring, even with the paint intact on the cowling panels. Probably because they are a little more forward-facing, and get the full blast from the prop.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,

I don't think it is a peeled-off paint. It's too coherent.

Look at this attempt to paint it

One can see not only the flying Tigger with the bombs in his arms and its tail, but a light uncomplete circle (a moon?), interrupted for the replacing of panels or some repainting, a sort of banner (nazi deforned one?) and a sort of simmetric vee, sort of medal, under the circle.

Regards

Massimo

[Mahno]

Hello everyone!

Celebrating New Year and cognac in the jar is fine, but let's get back to our Hurricane Mk.II Z2342.

Now therefore…

Greetings Troy!

Hi Mahno

If you look on Sovietwarplanes, in the lend Lease section, there are several threads on Lend Lease Hurricanes.

I would post this up there, as it would be of interest.

There are several member there who are here as well though

There is a member on Sovietwarplanes, Konstatin Lesnikov/KL, who is very knowledgeable about these subjects of Soviet VVS units. May I repost the pictures there?

It always easier to discuss when photos are posted, so I've used your links.

I've been following Sovietwarplanes constantly and my favorite section there is Lend-Lease. All threads about Hurricanes have long been studied. With Konstantin Lesnikov unfortunately not familiar.

It is very good that you have placed pictures on this site. Now I can not register there, writes:

Sorry, registration is currently disabled.

Also thank you for that by using my links, you move photos directly to the forum discussion thread. At me it did not work (although I tried to do it three times) due to some technical limitations of the forum.

Separately I want to say about the reasons for the appearance here me and this thread:

I think the most appropriate place to discuss the Hero of the Battle of Britain, legendary Fighter, pure 100% Briton is Britmodeller. For wherever as is not here should be discussed issues related to the Hawker Hurricane?!? Is there really a someone more knowledgeable in this matter, than British counterparts?

So go directly to the discussion:

Troy not to be afraid dogma - any ideas and comments are welcome!

I'd like to make some observations about the photo vs the profile. I'd not want to be to dogmatic, but in general it seems red stars were applied by the British before delivery.

While many profiles show RAF markings overpainted with AMT-4 Green for example, careful study rarely shows this.

Also, yellow outlined stars are rare, usually white or silver.

I think that applying to the Hurricanes unmarked Red Army Air Force in Britain began to be practiced only in the spring and summer of 1942 and has become commonplace since the beginning of 1943 , that's an increase in the extent of supply of equipment to the USSR under Lend-Lease. In the initial period of delivery (end of year 1941- at the beginning 1942) red star (and other symbols) is applied on arrival aircrafts in the USSR , right on the shaded markings RAF, and shaded carried out on the spot and not only green AMT-4, but also by any other available colors, as evidenced by numerous photographs.

On the bill of yellow edging stars agrees, it is quite rare.

As well as silver, about which I can say that it began to appear mostly at the end of the war or even after its completion. In any case, it is not widely used. (Discussions on this matter are still ongoing and not yet complete.)

The main standard in the initial period of the war (until about mid 1943) was a black edging stars or no edging, and later became the main white edging. Although sometimes it was dating at the beginning of the war...

The plane in question Bort # 53, this, and the plane in front are more likely in Day fighter Scheme [dark green/ocean grey uppersurface, medium sea grey undersides] , the planes after 53 look to be in Temperate Land Scheme, [dark green dark earth uppersurfaces, sky undersides]

why? look at the undercarriage doors, and compare to the prop spinners. same or similar tone I take to mean TLS.

Now, at the expense of the board number 53 (the second plane in the line):

Logical to think that time is the emblem on the hood , the aircraft had served in RAF units, which place its application is quite typical .

But I do not see Russian Shaded British identification marks (IM) under the Red Stars. Why, then, in Britain at the same time not have painted the logo on the hood?? Although it is not clear ... Sometimes this happens, but with filled in the USSR British IM .

Perhaps this Vasiliy Zolotov decided that here the same case...

I also do not understand why the artist painted the fighter in camouflage TLS (DG/DE/S), and I agree with you Troy, I think that the board number 53 painted in DFS (DG/OG/MSG), as well as the plane in the foreground.

At the expense of the remaining four aircraft (presumably TLS):

probably you are also right - the undercarriage doors they do have a different hue like Sky.

But on account of prop spinners seems to me that they have all the same six aircraft - white .

EDIT- also, I think the 'red band' on the spinner is just the shadow of the moving propeller. The red band would be a neat touch, but I can't see it.

Again, this proves what is becoming almost a motto...'Never trust a profile without a photograph!'

At the expense of the red stripe on the hood :

I was initially convinced that the artist made ​​an elementary mistake, probably an oversight was the result of fatigue from the large amount of work done in preparing the book.

In the photo clearly shows that it is not on the prop spinners! It is located behind the spinner on the hood of the fuselage just behind oil reflector and paint peeling badly.

Also, the photo shows that this band is painted on number 53.

From which I conclude that such a red stripe was the hallmark of 436 IAP (rapid identification badge), since there is reason to believe that the other regiments 235th IAD also had similar bands, but other colors such as white .

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/41C043A0IICEmpireQuill235418041004140438044E043B044C01942437043004450432043004470435043D044E0436043D043504350412043E0440043E_zps0cae13f4.jpg.html?filters[user]=138759118&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=6

- Hungarian pilot on background trophy Mk.IIС, 235 IAD, July 1942, the district of Voronezh. Behind the cockpit on the left side there is an inscription -"Empire Quill". Fighter painted in desert camouflage and has a tropical filter. Very interesting example!

Those from the "same opera":

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/41C043A0II235418041004140438044E043B044C01942437043004450432043004470435043D044E0436043D043504350412043E0440043E043D04350436_zpsfe7be2f3.jpg.html?filters[user]=138759118&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/4250443044004400438043A04310435043B0430044F046_zpse7d56c8c.jpg.html?filters[user]=138759118&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=4

About the latter: fighter of 235 IAD in a desert camouflage, background ILs-2, all aircraft detached wings for transport by rail to the rear for repair and abandoned during the retreat.

But the motto "Never trust a profile without a photo!" initially was an axiom.

The emblem on the nose is fascinating, and I've not seen this photo before, so thank you very much for posting this question.

Can't help on the serial

About the main question - the logo on the hood:

Yes, emblem gorgeous! But...

It is a pity that no one knows the meaning of this emblem...

What belongs to the pilot? To what unit applies? What is depicted on it?

I tend to see in the photo and color profile white bird feather (???) - From the upper right corner go down and left, under which something strange - extends from the upper left corner down diagonally to the lower right corner...

Apparently no one had ever seen this picture (or others like it ) ... In any other case, such a question would arise for a long time ...

Troy, you are welcome!! Itself really want to know the answer to it ... and build the Hurricane like this!

About the serial number of the Bort №53 as interpreted Z2342 (??):

Many times I have long considered this photograph, including a magnifying glass (this is not a joke). The fact that there the first letter Z and followed by the number 2 - probably true.

But here's what a figure should then - it is not clear...

I think that maybe the serial number looks like this - Z2625 (???)

At least I thought so when studying the photo under a magnifying glass, although the probability of error is very high...

this plane looks to have TLS, note spinner and underside are same tone

I hope this helps, Soveitwarplanes is not loading at the moment.

About the plane Hero of the Soviet Union fighter pilot Vladimir Stepanovich Eliseev :

Troy, I agree with you that it probably had Hurricane camouflage TLS, but to my great regret any numbers, nor their shape or locations of IM I do not know ...

In any case, thanks for the help Troy ! It seems to me that the study was mutually beneficial.

It was nice talking to you! Nestor.

Hurricane Mk.II Z2342 also served with 302(Polish)Sqn,being used by P / O W. Kaminski

to down a Ju.88 on 28/03/41 before being sent to Russia.

Hi Mark!

Subscribe to the issue given Troy:

When Hurricane Mk.II Z2342 was sent to the USSR?

Privyet, Mahno and welcome to the site! Interesting Hurricane, as it has the Soviet armament of the two UBK .50 calibre and two ShKAS 20mm wing guns, and the RO rocket rails under the wings. I've always wanted to do a Soviet Hurricane with the Soviet (re-)armament.

S Oovahzhyenyem,

Jason

Privyet Jason, and thank you for the invitation!

Yes, strengthening Hurricane weapons guns and heavy machine guns opened on a new potential ( as weapons platforms) , founded in robust design of the aircraft and was desperately needed in the most severe conditions of warfare on the Eastern Front . This standard was re in March 1942 , initially carried out on the aircraft factory number 81 in Moscow and at airbases in Kubinka , Khimki , Monino, Yegorievsk , and then in the field by special teams gunsmiths across the front.

So I want to make a model of board number 53 , which decided to scrutinize the relevant information. For this I have come to yours forum.

Yours respectfully, Nestor.

[Mahno]

Part II

Well Troy,by 28th of May,302 had been posted to Jurby on IOM and didn't return

until the 18th of August 1941.

By November of the same,they were converting or had converted to Spit V's.

Our man's colour plate above has 1942 on the descrition,but I don't read Cyrillic....

Had it gone out there with 151 Wing,or was it a genuine Lend-Lease jobbie?

Mark, what is - IOM and Jurby? Location 302 Sqn had not returned by 28.05.41 to 18.08.41??

From your information, I conclude that the Hurricanes were retired 302 Sqn in November 1941 and were prepared to be sent either in the USSR or in Africa (but got into Russia), provided that it is Hurricane Mk.II Z2342!

But, if it's still Hurricane Mk.II with a different serial number, for example Z2625, the situation is not clear again...

Mark, what you do not read Russian is not terrible - I 'm reading a little English... (Google rulit!)

Color profile literally has the following signature:

«Hawker Hurricane Z2342 side number 53 of 436 IAP, 235th IAD, Aerodrome Chernianka, Southwestern front, in July 1942.

I'll make the necessary explanations to the signature in the profile:

South-Western Front was called during the Battle of Kharkov (Spring 1942), ending the besiegement of the Red Army troops on the Barvenkovskiy ledge and disastrous defeat, as well as the further development of the Nazi offensive - during the fighting in the bend between the rivers Don and Volga (German name - operation " Blau") .

With further progress of the Wehrmacht to the city of Stalingrad the Front was renamed Stalingrad.

The official date of the beginning of the Battle of Stalingrad is considered 17 July 1942.

In reality, the Great Battle in the South wing of the Soviet-German front was continuously since 12.5.42 , the date of commencement of the Soviet offensive on the Kharkov city, to re-defeat of the Red Army units in February-March 1943, under the same glorious hero-city of Kharkov, after which front on now stabilized...

Now, regarding the time and place where the photo was taken might:

In the book under the photo no place names based regiment nor the exact date - says "summer", and under color profile as you can see they have.

But Chernianka airfield was one of many of locations 436 IAP, and apparently - in the end of June 1942 (and not in July, as the signature on the profile), during the battle in the bend of the Don and Volga (Operation "Blau").

So logically, we can conclude that the binding site for photos (airfield Chernianka) is conjectural.

Most likely, after so many years, just to establish the circumstances and location shooting is no longer possible... To my deep regret.

One thing I can say - this is a photo from the private archive HSU V.S. Eliseev! (99% probability!)

Information for consideration:

8th Air Force Army (VA) (CO general T.T.Hr'ykin) began forming a 9.06.42 (based on parts of the Southwestern Front Air Force). During the Battle of Stalingrad through parts of the Army and attached parts of the Air defense (PVO) have been about 115(at least!) fighters Hurricane Mk.II.

235th IAD (CO colonel I. Podgorny) became part of the 8th VA 12.06.42 with 45 Hurricane Mk.II consisting in four regiments, in this time didn’t have other types of aircraft and had then started fighting.

On 30.06.42 the division was in the same composition and had 13 serviceable (and 16 faulty) Hurricanes. And on this date of all front air units only 235 IAD had fighters of this type.

On 17.07.42 in the division was 5 regiments, and of the original 4 regiments left only two regiments on Hurricanes with 25(6) fighters, as well as there were 3 new regiment on LaGG-3 with 27(16) machines.

23.08.42 - the last day of combat activities division, surrendering residues material part it has been bred from the front to re-form. During the first period of combat operations through 235th IAD passed about 91(at least!) Hurricane Mk.II modifications B (12xcal.03 Browning), C (4x20mm Hispano cannon) , and re-equipment of “Russian Standard” B (2x20mm guns ShVAK, 2x12,7mm UB, 6xRO under the RS-82, RS-132).

436 IAP (CO major A.B. Panov) on 12.06.42 had 17 Hurricane Mk.II. Since arriving on the front regiment took an active part in the hostilities and well-proven.

On 30.06.42 in the regiment there were 5(3) of the aircraft, that is, for two weeks of intense fighting, he suffered the smallest loss of all four regiments of the division, losing half machines.

In connection with the successful operation of the combat regiment was constantly replenished aircrafts by "neighbors" by division. Thus the beginning of the Battle of Stalingrad (17.07.42) only 436 IAP as having the most experienced flight crews has been beefed up to full material part of the state, having in its structure 19 Hurricanes Mk.IIB rearmament by " Russian standard". And as at that date to appear on the same 19 serviceable aircraft (no fault), it follows from this conclusion, characterizing the intensity of the fighting - in the fierce air battles with rushing to the Caucasus and the Volga atrocious enemy of all the machines were lost (no later than 10.07.42). Another regiment, which by this time still retained some of their British machines was 46 IAP, having composed after recharge 6(6) Hurricane Mk.IIB (12xcal.03 Browning). The other "hurricane" regiments - 191 IAP and 180 IAP handed over the remains of materiel to their "brothers in arms" departed to the rear to re-form, and three regiments joined the division on the LaGG-3 - 13,31,156.

19.07.42 - the first day of combat activity 436 IAP in the Battle of Stalingrad.

07.08.42 - last sortie regiment in battle. Official losses in almost three weeks of fighting in the "Hell on the Volga" - 12 fighters, i.e. slightly more than half the fleet.

For the frontline everyday episodes of the fighter pilot from 436 IAP, ace V.S.Eliseev (future HSU) can be found on the link in my first post.

Mark, why did you mentioned the 151 wing??

And what is the “lend-lease jobbie”???

Hi Mark

i was asking, as it might help if had been repainted in DFS, if with an RAF squadron when the change happened, then DFS it is.

I've seen both on VVS Hurricanes.

All the 151 wings planes I've seen appear 'new' and also have tropical filters.

The cyrillic capitoon mostly says

"436 IAP(Fighter Aviation Regiment), 235 IAD ( 1st form ) , 8th VA(8th Air Force), Stalingrad Front , summer 1942."

the only bit not quoted says

Aerodrom Chernyanka, Uro-Eapadyii front, iuli [july] 1942

My cyrillic is pretty poor, and it's hard to transliterate in English, so my transliteration may not be very good. Cyrillic is kind of fun, as once you get an idea, some things that look like complete gibberish suddenly become words you know... something that is looks a bit like 'XAPPNKAH' become 'Hurrikan'... the 'N' should be backwards

see http://en.wikipedia....Cyrillic_script

and the mildly amusing for the Brits that is VVS in Cyrillic becomes BBC...

and here's one you'll recognise..

though literally it's 'SPITFAIIR' sort of....

Troy, I do not understand what kind of a repaint from TLS in DFS in the RAF you talking about???

And what do you seen out in the Red Army Air Force??

Where does aircrafts of 151 wings that are "new", and have tropical filters???

Incidentally colleagues, I have to you a very important question about the Hurricanes Mk.IIC in the desert camouflage scheme with tropical filters of 235 IAD! (a link to a photo that I gave above)

Аnyone have any ideas about thise plane???

About the Southwestern front (which could not overpower your translator) wrote above.

About Russian language: not that he and funny (if a little understanding) and not that he and complex, as many say ... And of course - "The sun always shine on BBC"!

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/RussianSpitfirebook001_zps8f2fb199.jpg.html?filters[user]=138759118&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1

A picture on the cover of a book about the "Spitfire" in my opinion beautiful! Cheers!

http://sovietwarplan....php?board=50.0

This is the link for sovietwarplanes: Lend-Lease aircraft. As you will see (and Troy said) there are a number of threads about Soviet Hurricanes. There is also an Osprey publication dedicated to Soviet Hurricane Aces which may be of interest.

About this site mentioned above, unfortunately its branches I need the information on this topic is very small.

Graham, this book I have in the original and she is gorgeous! Its author Yuri Rybin - well done! As artist Alexander Rusinov, though his profiles have many questions...

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/SHAWWII43E0431043B043E0436043A04300_zps0a93672d.jpg.html?filters[user]=138759118&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=2

However, the publisher has committed a serious error so called book. Because it dealt with the fighting aces on Hurricanes exclusively on the northern flank of the Eastern Front - the Air Force of the Northern Fleet , in the Kola Peninsula and the city of Murmansk, on the Karelian front.

No action of the Hurricanes armed units at Leningrad, or Central, or Southern section of the Soviet-German front in the book does not reflect...

Nevertheless, the book is very good!

Hi, interesting image. I've tried to enlarge some details.

It seems that at least three planes on the line had particular heraldries.
The first one has a small painting on a light stripe just behind the propeller. To my eye, it seems a sort of 'Super-Tigger', a flying tiger with two bombs in its arms.
Plane n.53 has (obviously) a white-black hood; its tail number is hardly readable, perhaps because it was originally painted on a darker background, and a lighter color was repainted all around in not accurate way; the light color on the rear fuselage is clearly lighter than the one on the nose. The wheel door is dark, much darker than the following planes of the line, so I suppose that it was grey, not sky.
The last plane of the line shows a light dot on the nose, but the emblem is unrecognizable.

Hello Massimo!

Why do not I register on your site, thanks Troy - rescued, published there my questions!

In my opinion these two planes - № 53 (the second in the line) and last (sixth in the line).

The sixth aircraft: bright spot may be the emblem and local repaint, in any case nothing to parse - too far...

The second aircraft: I wrote my opinion about his Heraldry in the discussion above. Unfortunately, no other versions highlights.

Serial number is very difficult to see, almost unreadable. My option voiced above. There may be dark background also because of the play of light and shadow on the canvas sagged rear fuselage...

In my opinion, the aft fuselage is clearly lighter than the nasal part, because

sunlight is reflected differently from the metal plating of the nose of the aircraft and fabric covering the rear fuselage . Therefore nose seems darker reflecting a sunlight glare, and the tail is not reflecting (absorbing) light seem brighter.

By wheel door I agree with you (and Troy).

The first aircraft: my opinion coincides with the view of Troy, nothing but peeling paint is not there - on the photo in the book is clearly visible! On the hood just behind the spinner have a red annular band with scuffed paint, through which can be seen the basic camouflage colors.

And it does not carry the bomb! Under the wings of the first plane (probably as well as the other five) carries missiles RS-82. Six pieces, three pieces under each plane.

Massimo, love your site, not only to me but also to all aviation enthusiasts from Russia!

Yours!

The nose art is fascinating Massimo, but I think the first plane just has most of the paint flaked off the nose ring, not a design!

I've noted on other VVS Hurricanes mismatched removeable panels [in one case, wings in DFS, fuselagein TLS] , so the engine panel behind does not have flaked paint.

Be interesting to know where the image has been scanned from, as it's from a book or magazine, so there must be a better print ...somewhere!

You are completely right Troy, this is what I wrote and Massimo.

Yes, in the Red Army Air Force planes are often tinted flaky, sometimes in different colors, which is why the machines looked very gaudy - as exotic birds. Although if you look lake the modeller , this "beauty" - space for creativity...

Troy, at the expense of the photos you 're right again - she's from this great book "Aviation in the Battle of Stalingrad":

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/43E0431043B043E0436043A04300_zps62e66de1.jpg.html?filters[user]=138759118&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

I re-shooting the images on the camera to work on the model of Hurricane. A copy of better quality should be the author of this historical research, his name - Vladimir Ratkin.

Source from which he received the photo above, and I voiced my version is likely true.

Publisher's website:

http://aerospaceproject.ru/aviation

Sold in Moscow from September 2013, prices from 26 to 46 dollars.

The book is unique in content, 71 years later after the events we finally got a comprehensive, meticulous, very balanced work without tendentious interpretations and profanity. Carefully analyzed data from the two opposing sides, Red Army Air Force and Luftwaffe. Description tied to fighting actions of ground troops.

Highly recommend!

It is quite normal for Hurricanes to show paint removed from the nose ring, even with the paint intact on the cowling panels. Probably because they are a little more forward-facing, and get the full blast from the prop.

Graham you are right, it seems to me that this was also because it was painted in the field directly in aviation units, over the base layer of camouflage.

Hi,

I don't think it is a peeled-off paint. It's too coherent.

Look at this attempt to paint it

Massimo assure you that it is not present on the picture in the book!!

Postscriptum:

People, for some reason I can not insert pictures directly into the thread in the forum. I do not know what to do...

If you want, you can move my post on Sovietwarplanes!

Troy, Mark, Jason, Graham, Massimo! It was nice to meet you colleagues!

Sincerely yours,

Nestor Mahno!

Edited January 3, 2014 by Mahno

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Nestor.

Sorry, registration is currently disabled.

Ii one wants to subscribe, he has to write a private mail to JP and/or to me, we can create a new account manually by having the username and mailbox address. Unfortunately we were submerged by subscriptions of spammers, one thousand for week, so we had to do so.

Massimo, love your site, not only to me but also to all aviation enthusiasts from Russia!

You're very welcome.

Massimo assure you that it is not present on the picture in the book!!

Is it possible to scan an higher resolution version of this detail?

If you want, you can move my post on Sovietwarplanes!

Could be good, but there are so many posts... there is already a link to this thread on Sovietwarplanes, it will be enough.

It was nice to meet you colleagues!

Very nice. Very interesting discussion.

Regards

Massimo

[grahamf]

Not the same aircraft but anyone interested in Hurricanes in Russia should definitely look at the link below, look at the images at the bottom and there are some showing the rockets it carried.

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/

Graham.

[Test Graham]

Not Troy, but to clear up a couple of points.

IOM is the Isle of Man, between north-west England and Ireland. Jurby is an RAF base on the island.

You will not see RAF unit markings on deliveries to Russia because the aircraft were fully overhauled before delivery, which would probably mean new fabric covering and certainly a new coat of paint. The badge on the cowling is not representative of normal RAF practice, any insignia would normally be placed further aft. The rectangular shape was not common either. I have no doubt in claiming this to be a VVS marking not a survivor of the overhaul.

I haven't yet followed up the interesting links, but I will.

EDIT: Well, a few RAF aircraft did carry markings in this position, so I should not be dogmatic, but I still think it is VVS.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Graham Boak

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,

The badge on the cowling is not representative of normal RAF practice, any insignia would normally be placed further aft. The rectangular shape was not common either. I have no doubt in claiming this to be a VVS marking not a survivor of the overhaul.

That badge has some interruptions both on the contour and internal emblem (well represented in the profile) that suggest the use of a reusable mask. Strangely, no other plane with that badge is known.

What could it mean? Looks a sort of stylized 3.

Regards

Massimo

[Mahno]

Hi Nestor.

Ii one wants to subscribe, he has to write a private mail to JP and/or to me, we can create a new account manually by having the username and mailbox address. Unfortunately we were submerged by subscriptions of spammers, one thousand for week, so we had to do so.

You're very welcome.

OK, I will writing a private email to you Massimo very soon...

You doing right -

Spam is the Evil!

Is it possible to scan an higher resolution version of this detail?

Could be good, but there are so many posts... there is already a link to this thread on Sovietwarplanes, it will be enough.

Very nice. Very interesting discussion.

Regards

Massimo

Unfortunately scan in the best resolution I will fail, I'm sorry.

I've done everything I could ...

About my "bedsheets" agree - too many of letters! (all night wrote ...)

I agree - link to this thread on Sovietwarplanes be enough.

Yes and me too very nice.

Very interesting and necessary discussion.

Not the same aircraft but anyone interested in Hurricanes in Russia should definitely look at the link below, look at the images at the bottom and there are some showing the rockets it carried.

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/

Graham.

Hi Graham!

Thank you for your response.

Link to the Z5252 has long since become the classical and its the first picture it very clearly demonstrates what I say above - all time of the very long 1942 year the fighters continued to arrive with the visible British label, and therefore could be painted in the VVS units. Everything depended on the will of command, the availability of paints and time availability of technical personnel, and its frequently not enough...

We have in the initial (until mid) period of war RSs put on everything...

Including the U-2 (Po-2)...

Not Troy, but to clear up a couple of points.

IOM is the Isle of Man, between north-west England and Ireland. Jurby is an RAF base on the island.

Thanks for the explanations Graham!

I know where the Isle of Man, was not clear this abbreviation.

You will not see RAF unit markings on deliveries to Russia because the aircraft were fully overhauled before delivery, which would probably mean new fabric covering and certainly a new coat of paint.

But in 1942, we constantly see RAF unit markings on the photos from places of location the VVS units on the front! That does not preclude the presence of new aircrafts or after repair without RAF unit markings, аs you say.

All the matter is that the Red Army was in dire need of supplying any technique, because industry was evacuated, huge losses had nothing to fill, and we must fight. Thus, in the initial period of delivery were different aircraft, including used fighters (sometimes very hard!) removed from RAF combat units. In 1942 such cases were observed repeatedly. Another source of this IM situation is the aircraft designed for other theaters of hostilities - Africa, Asia, which, due to the alarming situation on the Eastern Front were redirected to the USSR without repainting! With all insignia, emblems and numbers! Everything was going to the case!

That is what happened with bort №53 and Hurricanes in Desert scheme camouflage, photo which I quoted above and where have already expressed my opinion.

Foolish to think that during the severe hour, hot June summer of 1942 in the midst of Hot Tin of the steppe where death every second is literally hanging in the air, russian technician Vasja Pupkin in a rare free moment will draw instead of sleeping under the tailpipes fixed to his fighter colorful poster with naked woman with size yourself! Or neatly displays calligraphic handwriting on the left side behind the cockpit an inscription -"Empire Quill"...................

It's impossible!

In those terrible days, sometimes whole regiments lost their fighting capacity and within a week, and during one sortie, how lucky...

There was no time to engage in any nonsense!

It was necessary to survive and destroy the enemy!

The badge on the cowling is not representative of normal RAF practice, any insignia would normally be placed further aft. The rectangular shape was not common either. I have no doubt in claiming this to be a VVS marking not a survivor of the overhaul. I haven't yet followed up the interesting links, but I will.

Quite the opposite Graham!

The badge on the cowling is the normal RAF practice, as well as further aft.

Shape of drawing could be any! There are many confirming photos.

No doubts - In VVS such marking has never painted in 1941-1942! At that time, such a performance has been fraught with fast and cruel death from the Luftwaffe experts...

Emblems & graffiti in Soviet Air Force actively began appearing with mid-1943, when the Red Army began to defeat the enemy. And by 1944, just also have received a large spread graffiti on the nose under the tailpipes depicting the star with wings or swords, various awards, animals or any other possible subjects...

EDIT: Well, a few RAF aircraft did carry markings in this position, so I should not be dogmatic, but I still think it is VVS.

Everyone has their own opinion, but the facts - a stubborn thing!

Sincerely yours,

Mahno!

That badge has some interruptions both on the contour and internal emblem (well represented in the profile) that suggest the use of a reusable mask. Strangely, no other plane with that badge is known.

What could it mean? Looks a sort of stylized 3.

Maybe 1 or 7?? or 9!!

Massimo,

I expressed my idea above.

I am now more interested in inscription -"Empire Quill":

Maybe emblem of №53 just also connected with this inscription??...

Maybe this was a named batch of the aircrafts, built by someone funds??...

If we accept your suggestion about digit and my about quill, then it seems to me that it might look something like this:

Sort of stylized 1,3,7 или 9 (means the number of a named aircraft in the batch) and above it is a quill... of British Empire...

In my opinion beautiful version, eh?

Why I was got this version??

So because there aircraft with the such inscription were at least two!!!

First (It was above, but I repeat):

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/41C043A0IICEmpireQuill235418041004140438044E043B044C01942437043004450432043004470435043D044E0436043D043504350412043E0440043E_zps0cae13f4.jpg.html

- Hurricane Mk.IIC/Trop “Empire Quill”, serial number is unknown (???), 235 IAD, July 1942, this aircraft was captured by Germans in the district city of Voronezh.

Second:

http://s918.photobucket.com/user/ChronoNestor/media/4250443044004400438043A0_zps9c08825d.jpg.html

- Hurricane Mk.IIC/Trop “Empire Quill”, serial number BP176, unknown unit (???), 1942, this aircraft was captured by Germans in Egypt.

(Source: Air Magazine No.26 Artist: Teodor Liviu Morosanu (TLM))

I do not have this magazine, also no photos of this aircraft. Maybe someone else have them???

Share please!

I actually have a feeling for a long time (about the summer), these two fighters - twins!

The only difference for a while is the different prop spinners: our - White; German - Black,

that seemed to hint ...

What do you think about it, Massimo?

Well, now it's time to finish.

Thank you all and see you tomorrow!

Edited January 3, 2014 by Mahno

[Troy Smith]

Hi Nestor

Thank for all your responses, unfortunatly the translator can be imprecise, which can make the reply hard to understand.

OK, first

what i did for the photos is go to your link on photobucket, right click image, select 'copy image location' and then paste that into the 'image' box on the reply section.

Photobucket seems to have got much worse to use recently!

- Hurricane Mk.IIC/Trop “Empire Quill”, serial number is unknown (???), 235 IAD, July 1942, this aircraft was captured by Germans in the district city of Voronezh.Behind the cockpit on the left side there is an inscription -"Empire Quill". Fighter painted in desert camouflage and has a tropical filter. Very interesting example!

I can't see 'Empire Quill' written on this plane.

It's a IIC trop, but may just be in TLS, as planes sent to the Far East were sent in this scheme still.

the other photos you linked

My comments about Cyrillic were for Mark and other's who don't read Cyrillic, I read it very badly, and can only remember some of the letters...

Troy, I do not understand what kind of a repaint from TLS in DFS in the RAF you talking about???

I meant that if the aircraft that became #53 was still in an RAF squadron in August 1941, it would have been repainted in the DFS from the TLS.

And what do you seen out in the Red Army Air Force??

Sorry, i don't understand this question.

Where does aircrafts of 151 wings that are "new", and have tropical filters???

What I mean is that as 151 wing was in some ways a propaganda exercise, sending an RAF wing to Russia as a show of support, hence all the photographs, that the aircraft were to be handed over to the VVS when the RAF left, and as this was 'high profile' the aircraft supplied would be new. In the photos I have seen of 151 aircraft they look to be in very good condition.

I do not absolutely they were 'new' but it is assumption from the purpose of 151 wing, and the condition of the aircraft as shown in the pictures.

I know that later the VVS were not happy about getting aircraft that were certainly well used before being sent to Russia.

Certainly some aircraft were Mk I airframes that were rebuilt as MkIIA airframes and then sent over.

An example of this, DR353, is shown in this thread

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1441.0

Another example, is this, and airframe that has be recovered and being restored

Hurricane Mk IIa DR393 (registered ZK-TPL) was originally a Mk I P3351. It was delivered to the RAF, and crashed near Prestwick on 21 July 1940. Rebuilt as Mk IIa DR393 the aircraft was delivered to the Soviet Air Force in May 1941, serving for about two years before again crashing near Murmansk, Russia in 1943.

and

Hawker Hurricane IIa 'P3351 / K' (F-AZXR)

This beautiful Hurricane is actually not quite what it seems.

Built at Brooklands in 1940 as MkI 'P3351' it went on to serve with 73sqn during the Battle of France.

Relegated to a training role, she suffered an accident in September 1941 and was rebuilt as a MkIIa. At this time she was reserialled as 'DR393'.

She immediately went to Russia and saw Soviet service until shot down in the winter of 1943.

Recovered in 1991, she was restored by Hawker Restorations for Tim Wallis in New Zealand.

Although restored as a MkIIa, she has been painted to represent her original status as P3351 during the Battle of France.

Last winter she was sold and moved, appropriately, to France. This was the aeroplanes first display in the UK.

She now flies with the civil registration F-AZXR.

2013 Flying Legends, Duxford.

14-7-2013

regarding Graham's comment

You will not see RAF unit markings on deliveries to Russia because the aircraft were fully overhauled before delivery, which would probably mean new fabric covering and certainly a new coat of paint.

The photos of Spitfe Vb'd being prepared for delivery at Abadan, Iran, in 1943,

see here - http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm

there is a series of photographs in Red Stars 4, showing just the RAF roundels being painted out, then red stars being applied with a stencil, and then the black outline being applied by hand.

In the photo below if you look carefully at the fuselage you can see where the roundel has been overpainted, and the red star applied further back.

Also of note are the upperwing stars. It was not VVS practice to apply upperwing stars, and these are visible in various photos of VVS Hurricanes, which I would take as showing British application of stars before delivery.

as seen here http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=877.0

regarding the use of personal markings in 1941 -42?

Foolish to think that during the severe hour, hot June summer of 1942 in the midst of Hot Tin of the steppe where death every second is literally hanging in the air, russian technician Vasja Pupkin in a rare free moment will draw instead of sleeping under the tailpipes

again from the above thread , top plane Z3227, dated 21 Marta 1942 [Marta - March?] of the 767 Go-IAP

and another 767 Go-IAP plane, 7 Aprilya 1942 [April i presume]

OK, these are both from the same IAP, but even the desparate times of 41-42 you do get slogans appearing on planes, it's good for morale.

And for those casually reading this thread, there is a decal sheet by authentic decals for the animal tail schemes above in 1/72 and 1/48.

see http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/index.php?product_category_id=&product_division_id=&manufacturer_id=7927&code=&product_type_id=&scale_id=&keyword_search=hurricane&setPerPage=25&currency_id=

But I'd not believe all the overpainting as shown above, except for #92, which looks to have had extensive repairs.

see http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=842.0

note the link to a Russian forum where more pics as well as some of the above are posted,as well as some other profiles.

One plane is particular is very well known. Z5252, #01 as it was the first plane handed over by 151 wing to general Kuznetzov.

This pretty much always shown in profiles as having Russian painting out of the RAF markings [as shown above]

In this case there could be definite proof

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/index.htm

as the Z5252 has been recovered, and the link bove takes you to a load pics of this, but you can't really tell...but in this very very famous photo

Hurricane O1 Z5252 which was presented to Major-General A A Kuznetzov, Soviet commanding officer in the region

look at the underwing roundels, faintly visible blue outer ring, but not an obvious patch of another colour. Why?

My theory is this, remember 151 wing was a bit of a propaganda stunt, but as they sent a wing of Hurricanes, and crew, they would have sent stores, and I'll bet they sent some paint!

As this was a the first handed over, I'll bet it was repainted by RAF ground crew with British paint for the handover.

True the fuselage roundel comes up a darker patch,[in another photo] but could just be fresh paint and environmental factors..its a lot colder than the UK!!

The colour pics in the link unfortunately don't really show the overpaint of the wing roundels well, but the original blue can be seen through peeling paint here...

I know some of this post is off from the original topic, but a lot of this is buried in various threads on the Sovietwarplanes site and I though it would be of general interest to members here who are curious about VVS use of the Hurricane

For those who now want a VVS regunned Hurricane, this link has drawings of this and the rockets fitted as well.

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=881.0

Finally, really off topic, but if you were reading comics in the UK in the late 1970s, do you remember Johnny Red?

this one is a bit of light relief, but I unless your a 40 something Brit, you probably won't have run across this one.
there was a 1970's British comic called Battle, and from 1977 to the mid 80s it ran this strip.

I read it back then, and it is of minor interest in that whilst being written at the height of the Cold War for British children it gave a sympathetic view of the Soviet people, and their sacrifices in the Great Patriotic War, while the commissars are reviled.

Quote

Johnny Red begins with the nineteen-year-old’s short temper causing him to strike a superior officer and be discharged from the RAF. Stealing a Hurricane from a merchant navy vessel off the coast of Murmansk, Redburn arrives in Russia and falls in with Falcon Squadron, a forgotten band of airmen waiting to die for the Motherland. Johnny helps the Falcons re-establish themselves as a fighting force as they take on the might of the German Luftwaffe, but he is now a wanted man, and fears that the Russian Commanders will discover his secret…

Don't get me wrong, it's certainly not high end literature, in fact a lot is downright preposterous and as silly as any comic..like the opposing sides talking on the radio during combat and the heroic Englishman..
but this and some Airfix models was the start of my interest in the VVS though...

I'm quoting myself here, but as Sovietwarplanes has a very international readership...but here I know there are a lot of 40 something Brits....

Also of note are the mention of female piloted I-153 Chaika's

Note ALL the stories are scanned and readable on the site.... click on a thumbnail and start reading.

http://www.falconsquadron.sevenpennynightmare.co.uk/?cat=3

The comic even had details on how to build Johnny's Hurricane...

right. Don't blame me if you spend the entire weekend reading it!

cheers

T

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Nestor

Maybe 1 or 7?? or 9!!

Here is the best reconstruction I can make of this mark:

Definitely a 3.

Well, I am not sure, but this type of 3 with oblique segment is used mainly in Russia, not to be confused with cyrillic z that is similar to the 3 drawn in the usual western style.

Hurricane Mk.IIC/Trop “Empire Quill”, serial number is unknown (???), 235 IAD, July 1942, this aircraft was captured by Germans in the district city of Voronezh.

Empire quill... I've even tried by darkening the image and increase contrast, but I don't see this written on the photo.

Best regards

Massimo

[Mahno]

Hi Troy!

Hi Massimo!

Thank for responses, but to my great regret now I have no chance of an extensive answer all your very interesting questions. Continue our extremely interesting and important conversation later! OK?!!

PS: Yea Troy, some of our post has long been is off from the original topic, but a lot of this is normal and even necessary to discuss the main threads!

Don't blame me if you spend the entire weekend reading it!

Blame you in that again today I'll be spending all night answering your questions!

/this is a joke/

PPS: Massimo! You are great men!!

Definitely a 3.

Well, I am not sure, but this type of 3 with oblique segment is used mainly in Russia, not to be confused with cyrillic z that is similar to the 3 drawn in the usual western style.

Definitely very similar to 3!!!

[Miggers]

What a damned interesting read.

I knew of 151 Wing,but didn't realise the VVS used the Hurri so extensively.

Well done for bringing it up Manho.

[Troy Smith]

What a damned interesting read.

I knew of 151 Wing,but didn't realise the VVS used the Hurri so extensively.

Well done for bringing it up Manho.

Hi Mark

the VVS received 2,952 Hurricanes, which is about 1/5th of Hurricanes built, 14,533.

The Soviets were not overly impressed, but it was a useful stop gap in 1942.

Did you check the links on the VVS regunning the IIB with 2x 20mm cannon and 2x 12.7mm guns?

They made a number of 2 seat conversions as well.

there are a fair few threads of the Hurricane as well as other lend lease types here - http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?board=50.0

you'll recognise a few of the posters there as well

cheers

Troy

PS book not to hand, but the VVS got about 1500 Spitfires as well!

Photos are not that common as they were used by PVO units, which were air defense, and not in the front line, so got photographed less. Mostly Vb and MkIX's

About 20% all VVS aircraft were lend-lease, including 4,000 P-39, most of the P-63's, they were the biggest user of the A-20 Boston, but the Soviets produced aircraft in vast numbers.

From memory the Yak family Yak-1/3/7/9 was about 35,000, the Lavochkin family Lagg-3/La5/7/9/11 a similar amount, as well as 36,000 Of the Il-2 Shtumovik....

And this was mostly a tactical airforce.. the scale of Eastern front battles is beyond comprehension!!