What-If Chat

[Col.]

Hmm, all this talk of TRS.2 developments makes my desire to build an early production service machine seem a bit tame with little more than an upper surface grren/grey scheme over anti-flash white and a light weapons load. At least the Super Hunter and tuning fork Harrier/Kestrel will look a bit more radical once I get around to them. There's also a P.1214 earmarked for Royal Navy service sitting somewhere near the bench once I get back to it so hopefully at least one Whif will occur soon.

[trickyrich]

my 2 attempts (so far) at enlarging the nose

I like them both, specially the black one!!! Is that a Phantom front end grafted on?

For obvious reasons I’m a big fan of the F-111 and throughout its life it was considered one of the premier low level strike aircraft of its time….which was quite long. With the latter avionics updates it was about as good as it gets……pity they didn’t sort out the engines! The F-15E Strike Eagle was good but………

So for the TSR-2 (how would the designation change for different models, and did it have a name??) anyway;

A good size multi-mode attack radar with TF abilities is a must, (or additional TFR’s fitted) sort of means a large Radome straight away. In that era seperate TFR’s would have been essential so it could play in the weeds at high speed (like the F-111, >100’, TFR ride set to “hard”, +700kts…what a ride!).

By the 70’s guided munitions would be standard, so designation pod would have been fitted, a bit too early for integrated systems, probably something like the Pave Tack, plenty of room inside the weapons bay.

New avionics, may have required a spine hump or similar, running down to the tail, normally the easiest place to fit additional avionics, out of the way of engines and fuel cells. Don’t think they would have extended the nose section for additional space.

Wings, would there have been any changes to them, Leading Edge Extensions?

Engines, probably would have not changed too much, maybe just gradual improvements rather than totally new engines.

These “changes” would have altered the sleekness of the original design but you could tell it was a TSR-2. I'm thinking the evolution in looks may have gone a similar way to that of the Mig-21! Initially a sleek streamline design evolving into something a little more brutal or business like with the additional avionics humps, or maybe the change was a bit more subtle as with the F-4 Phantom?

All this talk and thinking about this is really giving me the urge to actually build it! Now if I can only just find the time………

[SleeperService]

Hmmm

I'd been thinking of the MiG-21 and F-16 as analogies as well. However I think the front end of a Tornado as mrvr6's build with a spine containing fuel would be interesting. Pave Tack in the bomb bay replaced by TIALD on a new centre pylon.

If working in 48th I think one of the Italeri kits (2731?) contains two front fuselage and nose pieces so nothing need be wasted.

Regarding the nose generally the Harrier evolution GR.1 to FA.2 comes to mind.

Potential I can see too

[trickyrich]

mmm I was thinking the same though in doing test runs in 1/144.

but the more I think about this the more I feel I must build it!!!

Maybe once I do some drawing mockups I might go full scale!

Thinking Airfix TSR-2 and Revell Tornado GR1 in 1/72, in early 80's wrap around camo, in full strike weapons loadout?

[robvulcan]

Can I just say

my 2 attempts (so far) at enlarging the nose

I just want to say that this gloss black and what looks like black chrome TSR-2 are the some of the most evil but beautiful looking things I have seen. Darth Vader would be at home in those.

[trickyrich]

yes I have to agree with that even though I was distracted with my own ramblings......

The Black/silver (???) finish is perfect, actually more so, I haven't ever seen a finish quite like that, you'll have to tell us your secret!!! Plus do you have the finished photos????

So I've talked endlessly of my now (well I've talked about it so much I now have to build it) project, what is everyone else planning........lets get this place rockin!!!!

[trickyrich]

ok ok, so I've finally convinced myself to build this beast....only after the Heinkel!

It will be 1/72, a Italeri IDS (just bought) and with luck a cheap Airfix TSR-2!

Will either be the wrap around camo of europe in the mid 80's or first Gulf war scheme!

Oh why oh why do I do this to myself!

Please don't expect this finished till late next year, have a 1/48 splinter camo Mig-21 (Mig-21 STGB), A-36 Apache (Mustang STGB), and a Fury FJ-4 (Sabre STGB) to build next year, plus a 1/72 Tu-128UT “Pelican” (Trainer GB something completely different from everyone else’s build), and a 1/35 WWI Rolls Royce Armoured Car (WWI GB), plus not forgetting the Heinkel!!!!! That with my crazy work shifts.........am going to be very busy!!! :frantic: :frantic: :frantic: :frantic:

[robvulcan]

Tricky rich a few ideas I have for a whiff are these.

A Vulcan B3 which nearly happened. a return to the straight wing though redeisigned with a shallower angle. 3 skybolts under each wing with after burners and a taller tail.

I quite like the Idea of making up completely original works of fiction using random parts of kits unused to make some new thing/craft/

Apart from that aircraft I like in schemes I would like to see them in

I also have an idea for a swing wing Vulcan Tornado Hybrid.

Cheers Rob

[Procopius]

I also have an idea for a swing wing Vulcan Tornado Hybrid.

Vulnado! Torcan!

[robvulcan]

Vulnado! Torcan!

Or simply rename it BUTCHO

[mrvr6]

yes I have to agree with that even though I was distracted with my own ramblings......

The Black/silver (???) finish is perfect, actually more so, I haven't ever seen a finish quite like that, you'll have to tell us your secret!!! Plus do you have the finished photos????

So I've talked endlessly of my now (well I've talked about it so much I now have to build it) project, what is everyone else planning........lets get this place rockin!!!!

yeh its an f4 front end and after plenty of careful measuring and dry fitting etc the fit was perfect!

the finish is tamiya gloss black + meguires car polish and LOTS of elbow grease/resprays

i never 100% finished it and its looking a bit sorry for itself atm (mirror polished black shows up EVERY grain of dust lol)

[trickyrich]

Even so it still it looks amazing, you MUST finish it!!!!

Even using automotive paint for my cars and I still have trouble getting a finish like that, fantastic job!

[robvulcan]

AH.......... meguires car polish ! I use that for my guitars but my dad nicked it for his Jaguar XJ6 I must get some more. Its expensive but its the best..

Cheers For the tip that looks gorgeous

[mrvr6]

thanks its alot of work to get it like that but worth it!

now tell me more about this vulcan with flamethrowers out the back of the engines

[robvulcan]

thanks its alot of work to get it like that but worth it!

now tell me more about this vulcan with flamethrowers out the back of the engines

What my whiff ideas ?

Well A vulcan B3 with bigger wing than a B2 shallower angle straight wing edge and 3 skybolts under each wing. 4 afterburning 301 olympus engines. Taller tail with a spine that extends from the tail to the canopy back, Painted antiflash white or other scheme perhaps barley grey lag or something else.

As for the swing wing it would be my idea for a further development as apposed to the above which is an actual design idea that never happend.

I would have a vulcan centre section in 1/144 with the wings cut off and replaced with 1/72 tornado wings or possible 1/48th,, along wit the rear tail wings. I would also use to tornado tail possibly and put a top slat in the intakes for super sonic flight.

Seeing as the Vulcans actual test flight top speeds are as far as I am aware still not disclosed but many have said she was super sonic in a dive and possibly more. I see this as a logical step forward and possible our answer to the rockwell.

[trickyrich]

Ok just to let everyone know......who's interested! I have started the beast which I nearly managed to hijack this thread with!

I have attached a link, below, to the WhatIf section the build is under, it will be a slow build due to my work, but I hope to have it finished by the end of next year....well earlier I hope!

http://www.britmodel...ipping-version/

Anyway please follow the fun...or folly and lets make next year a “WhatIf” year!!!!

Oh and Merry Christmas and best wishes to you all.....may Santa make you stash huge!!!!

(and yes I just copied and pasted this from the WhatIf III GB chat as I was lazy! )

[mrvr6]

What my whiff ideas ?

Well A vulcan B3 with bigger wing than a B2 shallower angle straight wing edge and 3 skybolts under each wing. 4 afterburning 301 olympus engines. Taller tail with a spine that extends from the tail to the canopy back, Painted antiflash white or other scheme perhaps barley grey lag or something else.

As for the swing wing it would be my idea for a further development as apposed to the above which is an actual design idea that never happend.

I would have a vulcan centre section in 1/144 with the wings cut off and replaced with 1/72 tornado wings or possible 1/48th,, along wit the rear tail wings. I would also use to tornado tail possibly and put a top slat in the intakes for super sonic flight.

Seeing as the Vulcans actual test flight top speeds are as far as I am aware still not disclosed but many have said she was super sonic in a dive and possibly more. I see this as a logical step forward and possible our answer to the rockwell.

remove the big delta? thats BLASPHEMY!! lol

[robvulcan]

remove the big delta? thats BLASPHEMY!! lol

Haha ,As a vulcan lover I agree though se has a nice looking centre section , and with swing wing retains delta origins. I can almost see her it would look pretty good I reckon.

Cheers rob ;£

[robvulcan]

Hi all.

I have not been on here much since early January and Its nice to see that there seems to be more activity in this area as I see there are plenty of recent activity on the forum posts on this section.

It would be nice if we could get this chat page pinned at the top of the section though so we can make this forum section function more like the other main sections such as planes, ships, armour, Surely each section even the lesser like this deserve a pinned chat section to make it more socially connected for us.

Cheers Rob

[trickyrich]

that would be great, though I don't know who we would talk to........don't think the admin visit this page very often...........though happy to be proven wrong, hint hint!!

oh and welcome back!

[robvulcan]

Hi mate and thanks. Yea I guess it would be mike or mish we would contact. Lets hope they visit here and let us know if they can do that for us.

I do intend to soon start work on a random whiff project.

Do not know what yet but something...

Cheers Rob

[bigh827]

I'll step in to the room. Got a deal some years ago on some kits off of E-bay, had problems and didn't build any thing for years.

That said, the kits came as multiples in the same box, so at some point I have to figure out how to make a center wing for a FW-190 Zwilling.

[trickyrich]

ooo I like!

is it a 190A or a Dora? I'll have a wee think about it, may have some ideas for you.

A little while later……….

Ok i've just been having a little think and look and this has been done before, the combo looks really good!!

There's two ways to go about it, scratch build the centre wing and tail fin or modify a 109Z conversion kit. Can't compare the 109 and 190 wings at the moment but it may be doable, but scratch building may be the better way to go. The profile is the same across the wing so not a big job, will just take a little bit of time if you haven’t done that sort of stuff before.

The undercarriage…as the 190 wheels fold in towards the fuselage you’d end up with the centre pair almost together, which would look a bit odd, so……..

I’d be tempted, again depending on you moding/scratch building skills, to move the outside wheels to the fuselage so that they fold into the centre section, that way you have the cleaner look of just a pair of wheels. If you wanted you could bulge the centre wing where the wheels go to fit slightly larger wheels that would have been required to support the additional weight.

This setup will leave you with plenty of wing real-estate for weapons!!!

As much as I love the idea I am not going to build it…tempting as it is……..but a Ta152H “Zwilling”!!!! Oooo something to chase those pesky B-29’s with!!!

[Arniec]

Rich, What about a Dornier 635 with extended wings for that with loads of weapons on it!

Cheers,

Arnold (the guy who puts all these strange Ideas into your head )

[trickyrich]

mmm interesting....but I will resist, have enough "projects" to keep me busy for sometime! Plus the size of the stash has become very noticible to the wife!!!

Rich (the guy who will not listen to Arnold anymore! )