Help Request - HMS Barham or Malaya - 1916 Jutland

[JohnT]

With the anniversary of the start of WW1 almost on us I would like to build a model of either HMS Barham or Malaya as she would have appeared at Jutland. My grandfather served on one of them at Jutland but the family history is uncertain as to which one he was on that day because he served on both ships during his naval service. I do know that he was lucky to survive as the one he was on took a big hit and several of his mates were killed but he was lucky enough to miss it having been ordered to run an errand away from his post when the shell hit. He was a telegraphist and I read in one account that Barham's auxiliary wireless room was wrecked with a hit so maybe that's a tie in?

I know that Trumpy have done a Queen Elisabeth in 1/350 but I am not sure just what a conversion would involve (I build things that fly and ships are new to me altogether excepting an Airfix Bismark way back in the days of black and white telly).

I'd prefer a bigger scale if possible.

The question I pose to WW1 ship experts is a model in existence somewhere or is a conversion possible or is it really a pipe dream?

thanks for the info in advance as always

John

[Shar2]

Unfortunately there is no mainstream 1:350 kit of any of the class for that period. Hopefully Trumpeter will upscale their smaller kits. My grandfather was on Warspite at Jutland so would love to build her from that period.

There may be a resin kit from Yankee Modelworks but can't be sure.

[HMSLion]

There's 1/700 scale QEs, nothing in 1/350...yet. I would not be surprised if something was under development.

[Jens]

Did you know that the Danes at Jutland's west coast thought it was thunder until the wrecked ships and dead bodies started to appear near the coast line?

Apparently it was so foggy the they could not see the battle from land.

Jens

[gaff752]

The Trumpeter 1918 QE in 1:700 is a fine, little model, but it would have to have some mods to make it a 1916 version of the class. Both MALAYA and BARHAM took hits at Jutland, the 5th Battle Squadron had to take on the entire van of the High Sea Fleet plus Hipper's battlecruisers during The Run to the North. It was an epic performance. This was when M and B were both hit hard. The QEs fought the greatest dreadnought action in history during the battle. They were in the thick of it for several hours from the time they pounced on the rear of Hipper's column causing considerable damage, through the perilous run to meet Jellicoe, and WARSPITE did her famous turning act right in the face of the German fleet as the squadron joined Jellicoe. Airfix ought to do a 1916 QE class model in 1:350. All were almost identical at this time, the provision of a few extra parts to do them all would not be a stretch. It's a sad commentary the greatest dreadnoughts of all time have never been done in their 1916 state in plastic (Skywave did a beautiful 1:700 resin 1915 QE about 25 years ago). They are long overdue for a five star treatment. They deserve it.

[JohnT]

Evening chaps

To some small extent reviving this older thread as we are but 30 days from 100 years since that epic naval confrontation and I confess some disappointment that no manufacturer has seen fit to make a decent larger scale model of one of the big ships from that day.

I am tempted to get either the Trumpeter small scale HMS Queen Elizabeth in 1918 configuration which I think is the nearest I can get to Barham at Jutland or should I get the Trumpy Barham in WW2 configuration as he served on her but obviously not in WW2. Not the right configuration but he did serve on her.

Very undecided. More complications in that the family knows he was on both Malaya and Barham and I have found photos of him in naval rig with Malaya I/d cap but his story is more consistent with time on Barham at Jutland.

Anyway give me a hand. Barham in WW2 configuration or go for the HMS QE in WW1 configuration? Neither is exactly right but it's all there is to go on. 1/700 scale so smaller than I'd hoped for too

What should a chap do?

[Shar2]

I'd go for the WW1 QE John. There weren't many differences externally, most were internal.

[JohnT]

I'd go for the WW1 QE John. There weren't many differences externally, most were internal.

Thanks Dave

What I needed

Any thoughts on paint colours or just follow Trumps instructions?

John

[Shar2]

If enamels, then I think colourcoats gw-02 would be correct for her.

[JohnT]

Thanks Dave

[Seahawk]

Think you're stuck with Trumpeter and 1/700. All the class were fairly new at Jutland so the differences between them would not be all that marked (though there would have some even as built). Think however that kit 05780 HMS Warspite 1915 will be closer to Jutland appearance than QE 1918. Malaya and Barham did not undergo the major modernisations that Warspite, Queen Elizabeth and Valiant did just before WW2 but were still extensively modernised in the 1920s (eg one funnel vice two) so the appearance as captured in the Trumpeter kits is very different from the Jutland look.

[JohnT]

Think you're stuck with Trumpeter and 1/700. All the class were fairly new at Jutland so the differences between them would not be all that marked (though there would have some even as built). Think however that kit 05780 HMS Warspite 1915 will be closer to Jutland appearance than QE 1918. Malaya and Barham did not undergo the major modernisations that Warspite, Queen Elizabeth and Valiant did just before WW2 but were still extensively modernised in the 1920s (eg one funnel vice two) so the appearance as captured in the Trumpeter kits is very different from the Jutland look.

Thanks - I had not thought of that. All I know about battleships of that era can be written on the head of a pin and still have room for the proverbial dancing angels. Much appreciated. I had picked up on the two to one funnel refit for Barham and Malaya so had realised that the later models that are available just dont work. I think someone (Dave possibly) mentioned a while back that there are other modifications as well so trying to make a "late" Barham/Malaya into an early one is a major, if not impossible, task. Certainly beyond my skill set.

Still think its a huge pity that WW1 ships get such a poor coverage. The older early battleships and cruisers look mightily interesting in a sort of Victorian/ Heath Robinson way. Could even have tempted me away from the flying side of things

[Seahawk]

Looking at RA Burt's British Battleships of World War One, it seems as if the only differences between the ships in the 1915-16 period relate to the locations of searchlights and/or of yards on the masts, so few would be able to argue with you if you said your 1916 Warspite was Barham or Malaya.

However looking more closely at the Trumpeter "Warspite 1915" (always a mistake with a Trumpeter kit), she appears to have some features added after Jutland, most noticeably the "pepperpot" searchlight towers on the after mast (parts A8 and at least the bottoms of parts C8). If you're interested in taking the project forward, I'll put some time into understanding the differences between Barham 1916, Malaya 1916 and Trumpeter's depiction of "Warspite 1915".

[JohnT]

A bit of a thread resurrection but due to life getting in the way I wasn’t able to take this forward till now. After a hunt round the net I found a Skywave 1/700 1915 Warspite in Japan and photos of the model look pretty detailed. Just paid for it tonight so hopefully it should arrive in a few weeks. 
Thanks to both Dave and Seahawk it looks like any differences are minimal so I may well get away with passing Warspite as her sister. 
I will do a work in progress and beg for help and advice as the last ship model I did was a 1/600 Airfix HMS Fearless I think back in the late 1960’s