Marcus.Q1000859 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Hi guys. I have a Hasegawa FG.1 kit and when finished I would like it to be displayed with the nose leg fully extended, so my question is what are the requirements for this condition? ie could the jet be parked up like this or would it need to be crewed, engines running? Is it extended only after the aircraft has approached the cat and would it ever be extended with the wings folded? I have the Hase 'High Grade' kit, Master model pitot set and the Hobby decal dry transfer set. Final question, are the wheels on the FG.1 the same as the FGR.2? Aires sell a set labeled for the FGR.2 thanks in advance Marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I`ve seen a Fleet Air Arm Phantom FG.1 in a photo displayed at an air show with the nose leg extended but it wasn`t a standard thing and was only done for display purposes presumably? You could display your model in an airshow scene or even better on the Italeri USN Carrier Catapult Diorama kit,.......remember the RN Phantom`s operated from the USS Saragota at first during trials and were regular visitors to USN Carriers after this. I`m not sure about the wheels but cannot see there being much,..if any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The Phantom on the carrier deck at the fleet air arm museum in Yeovil is posed on the catapult with the leg fully extended which may just be for a more dramatic pose, which it is! As for being parked in this configuration it would be possible but I'd think very unlikely, I would think the leg would only be extended for launch as taxing on a deck with the leg extended would severely restrict the crews view, not a good idea, me thinks! But it's not a Canberra so I could be totally wrong! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Just had a quick look in 'British Phantoms 1966-1978' the superb book by Pat Martin and there are three photos of individual FG1's on display at Yeovilton at various times with leg extended. None have wings folded. For info the a/c are: XT876 (May 1970), XV586 (Sept 1969) both with NASU red dayglo Heron on fin and XT864/VL-151 in 767 NASqn colours (found another...XV567/R-003 in 892NASqn colours at Leuchars 1978..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus.Q1000859 Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 RN vid hands to flying stations http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cALccuPShQc, may be to quick on the questions but its a neat vid and thanks so far on the responces. From the vid it looks like Phantom approaches the cat canopys closed and wings extended, then positions and in some order flaps down, nose leg extends with the deck crew fixing hold back, bridleing up and JBD up before the launch. I pulled out both my FG.1 & FGR.2 kits and they have the same quite nice white metal wheels and vinyl tyres so I will go with the Aires resin wheels for the FGR.2. mostly because I do not want the vinyl perishing after a couple or years on the shelf and getting sun. The Italeri US deck sounds like a cool idea, maybe unarmed as I can't really see them launching of a US carrier with 8 live missiles, do you think just a couple of blue bodies in the FWD wells? If its a closed canopy the jet will need occupants. http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/QAB480070 these are meant to be US pilots but are they close enough for my FG.1? is the flight gear helmets and harnesses close enough? there is some crew with the kit but I feel they are a little, er, blobby. Thanks Marcus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 You could display your model in an airshow scene or even better on the Italeri USN Carrier Catapult Diorama kit,.......remember the RN Phantom`s operated from the USS Saragota at first during trials and were regular visitors to USN Carriers after this. Italeri Carrier Deck is 72nd, whereas Hasegawa Hi_Grade is a 48th Phantom. Your best bet for a 48th Carrier deck is from Gundylunch on BM, he let me have catapult section for this Phantom. I've see a photo of a Phantom with nose-gear extended in an air-show static park, but for on-deck you're going to be on the cat - flaps and slats dropped, elevators set, aux air intakes wide open, closed up, crewed up and ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Wheels were the same for FG1 and FGR 2. At Leuchars we had a mix of black ones and white main wheels but don't know about RNAS. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHREAK Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Nose wheel extended on the cat only, wings unfolded, stabilators angled forward//downward, leading edge slats and flaps open/drooped. cat straps attached....and the crew of course. As a static at an airshow offers artistic licence, drop the flaps if you can though. Might be a darn sight easier! Good luck with the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus.Q1000859 Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 Thanks guys for the responces and all the good infomation. Looks like I have a bit more homework to do. I sent a PM to Gundylunch also. First up will be the Phantom crew 480070, and then some long run intakes since we are going to staring down them with the snout up in the air. DMould do some but I might just go with Alley Cat as I will be able to get the prototype Spitfire at the same time. The other piece of surgery will be freeing the leading edge flaps and trailing edge flaps and repositioning them for take off. If I clown it I will resort to the Wolfpac British flap set. Lastly will be the deck which I will need to scratch build, once I get some dimensions, things like the cat dimensions itself, approc track width and depth, and the JBD sizes. I can just assume that the two port and two stbd units are symetrical. The other option of course is a US carrier deck which may have information more readily available. Skunk Model Works do a carrier deck but it is a Nimitz class which I do not think the Brit Tooms would have flown from her since her first deployment didn't even start till mid 76. I will start a biuld thread closer to the time. Thanks again Marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstater94 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The Italeri US deck sounds like a cool idea, maybe unarmed as I can't really see them launching of a US carrier with 8 live missiles, do you think just a couple of blue bodies in the FWD wells? Thanks Marcus Actually... on the contrary... according to "McDonnell Douglas F-4K and F-4M Phantom II" By Michael Burns, 4 FG.1s embarked on Saratoga in October 1969. The first time that they had embarked for operations at sea. During the time they were embarked, the Saratoga was dispatched to the Med in response to a crisis in Lebanon and a coup in Libya. Mr. Burns states that during this time the FG.1s of 892 squadron flew air defense sorties with VF-103's F-4Js. So, you could arm them up on an American carrier deck :-) Hope this helps John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Also on Independence? See http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html and scroll down to the bottom. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 That's excellent stuff Tommy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) So is the area I circled in red the new structure to accommodate the Spey (photo is looking aft at the tail cone section)?? Edited December 11, 2013 by Jennings Heilig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So is the area I circled in red the new structure to accommodate the Spey (photo is looking aft at the tail cone section)?? It may be, but I'm inclined to think that the entire heat-resistant panel was changed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 It may be, but I'm inclined to think that the entire heat-resistant panel was changed: As this has to match up with a much wider rear spey fuselage, you might find that the entire structure is wider at this point for the British Phantom. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 If you look at my blog post, this part of the fuselage was above the Speys, so to speak, so didn't have to match the middle section of the fuselage in width. Moreover, I have McDonnell documents that state the changes to the structure aft of FS 515 (and this is the fuselage join at that station) were minimal, which is also noted in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Comparing photos of F 4Js to F 4K/M it looks like the first two heat resistant panels after this frame have a slightly different contour at the top end but whether the actual structure underneath is different I can't say. They were double skin panels as I remember so the panel itself could have been shaped differently. Maybe someone with access to better photos of J79 engined Tooms could compare to confirm my suspicions? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) I'm sure McDonnell made the minimum of changes necessary. No point in making changes for no good reason. I can't see why anything aft of the joint in this photo would have needed to be different from a J79 powered bird. Edited December 11, 2013 by Jennings Heilig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Comparing photos of F 4Js to F 4K/M it looks like the first two heat resistant panels after this frame have a slightly different contour at the top end but whether the actual structure underneath is different I can't say. They were double skin panels as I remember so the panel itself could have been shaped differently. Maybe someone with access to better photos of J79 engined Tooms could compare to confirm my suspicions? Duncan B An illustration from my blog post: A is FS 515; B is FS 493. A close look at the fastener patterns indicates to me that at least the upper foot or so of the heat shield aft of 515 is different for about 24 inches aft of the end of the afterburner. A comparison of cross sections at 515 (also in the post) created from the respective McDonnell drawings suggests that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Any thoughts?? All in-service FG.1 and FGR.2 photos show the step in the natural metal area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Any thoughts?? All in-service FG.1 and FGR.2 photos show the step in the natural metal area... I noticed the same, from my memory the picture on the left is more indicative of the production FG1/FGR2's. If you look at the picture of the tail section under construction you posted the line of fasteners holding on the titanium sheets can clearly be seen on the inside of the skin as can the compartment for the hook accumulator gauge which is a good guide for where the joint is on the outside. From your picture of the tail section I'd say it has the titanium sheets in the same configuration as the picture on the left too. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Any thoughts?? All in-service FG.1 and FGR.2 photos show the step in the natural metal area... I think I need to revise my blog post... Edited December 11, 2013 by Tailspin Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Any thoughts?? All in-service FG.1 and FGR.2 photos show the step in the natural metal area... Intriguing. The shot on the right is part of a shot of XT595, XT597 also had the straight edge, and also when she went "raspberry ripple". Looking through the rest of my Phantom shots, a lot of the camouflaged "C's" also had the straight edge but when painted ADC Gray "gained" the "step". All other sub variants of the F-4, including all my shots of "K"'s and "M"'s have the step. DR Edited December 12, 2013 by sloegin57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) OK - I hadn't noticed that the step in the upper line of natural metal returned with the production airplanes (n.b. XT596 at Yeovilton also lacks the step); I've revised my blog post to reflect that. However, the difference in the shape of the "shingles" that occurred with the installation of the Spey did not. Note the difference between the upper line of fasteners in this picture (I think I got it from Derek Bradshaw) and that of a J79-powered Phantom. F-4C Picture by Bill Spidle Also note that the dark shingle area now extends forward to FS 515, replacing the panel that contained a trough for the fire warning sensor on the J79-powered Phantoms. Edited December 12, 2013 by Tailspin Turtle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Any thoughts?? All in-service FG.1 and FGR.2 photos show the step in the natural metal area... I had always assumed that this was a simple matter of not painting the "wedge". ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now