New Humbrol Luftwaffe enamels: any good?

[fightersweep]

Hi Allan;

I've had no issues with other Humbrol paints that I have bought recently, just the batch of the new Luftwaffe colours that I picked up a couple of days ago. Here's hoping that it's just a problem with a particular batch. I'll await a reply from Humbrol.

Regards;
Steve

[greycap]

high dwh

the compucolour info came from ted taylor who I met at a show in Sutton many years ago.

compucolour 1 and 2 were the result of a splitting up of the people who owned the original firm . as I understand it.

in the 80s or earlier the local model shop in Basingstoke had a delivery of compucolour and I remember everyone complaining about it the rep came out to show people how to do it. i wasn't there when he came so I cant say what the result was. I believe that the first factory was in overton near Basingstoke.

even so, modern paint coverage does not come anywhere near that of the afore mentioned paints.

regards

greycap

[greycap]

high fightersweep.

I have nearly run out of gloy paint so I shall keep my eyes open.

I think that the grain size of the pigment was larger in the past.,and probably the chemical content would cause mass suicide of the pc jobsworths.

regards ,

greycap

[Max Headroom]

I remember using Gloy Dark Earth when it first appeared. To my mind it was to dark.

Trevor

[greycap]

hi max

I seem to remember the experts of the distant past advocated lightening of all paint.. more so for 1/72 scale. as I said earlier the only thing modern paint has going for it is the colours seem more accurate.

55+ years ago when I started modelling, green was green, brown was brown and that was it, and it wasn't until I got airfix magazine that I found out the camo patterns and colours were specific to a particular subject.

the information thats about these days is light years ahead of the past.

regards.

greycap

[fightersweep]

I'd better make sure I have a tin of white handy as for some reason I have about 20 unused tins of Gloy RAF Dark Earth in the stash! Picked them up still in the trade boxes!

I agree with Greycap. From the point of view of brush painting, the older paints are superb. Just for fun, I recently built the old Revell 1/32 Bf-109G. I brush painted it entirely with Gloy and Humbrol Authentics. I would have been hard pushed to get a better finish with my airbrush. My old Humbrol RLM 76 gave a superb finish in two thinned coats, but one would have done the job ok. Most of my Humbrol Authentics from the 70's and 80's are marked as non toxic, so are they really harmful in any way compared to today's paints? Is there a market for a return to this formula of paint?

Regards;

Steve

[greycap]

hi steve

I think that non toxic of the past means its not based on white lead any more? .

the chances of using the original formulas are small even if they were allowed. the relentless scaremongering of the acrylic brigade (who shoot loads of cellulose thinner through their air brushes !!!!!!!)will render it unlikely .

however ., when I win the lottery I will make some .

regards

greycap

[lasermonkey]

I have a 'made in the UK' tin of. Humbrol 56 and that suffers from the same translucency as the aforementioned RLM enamels. I was really hoping that moving production back to the UK would have sorted out the QC issues that Humbrol has had of late.

I also have a large stock of Gloy and Compucolour enamels, as well as lots of old Humbrol, some even dating back to the early sixties! Coverage is excellent and the smell! Ahhhhh! Takes me right back!

I think that the Gloy 74/75/76 combination is spot-on. I'm using it on a brace of new Airfix '190s at the moment.

Incidentally, I bought a tin of the Humbrol RLM 02 and the coverage is very good if W&N flow enhancer is used. I think it's a little on the dark side, but does have that greeny, browny grey thing going on.

[fightersweep]

Hi Lasermonkey;

That's interesting! The other problem I had lately was also with a new tin of Humbrol 56...same issues as you. I also had a Humbrol Coal Black which was very thick, but after thinning was still very translucent.

We seem to be building a fan club for old paints here! Agree with the Gloy RLM 74/75/76 colours. Just painted a 1/72 Airfix Fw-190D-9 in these colours and it looks great! I've decided that rather than buy new paints now, I buy up as many old paints as I can find and use them instead. The only one I'm having problems finding is an old tin of Humbrol RLM 76. Just used mine up and I can't find another at the moment.

There must be an old warehouse full of them somewhere!

Regards;

Steve

[JasonC]

Would be interested to see some photos of the results you chaps have with brushpainting. Never had any luck myself.

regards,

Jason

[fightersweep]

Jason;

Sure! I'll snap some photos as soon as I get the chance...it's a bit hectic at the moment with four kids, Christmas and all, but I will do it and post on this thread. In the meantime, here is a "What If" I posted here about a year back..

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921255-172-what-if-westland-sea-whirlwind-nf6/

The only method I use when I brush paint is first of all find a good paint...apply in two or three thinned coats and use a good quality flat brush for larger areas. I've been using the Italeri range of brushes and find them very good and reasonably priced.

Regards;

Steve

[John]

I have both acrylic and enamel versions of 248 and 249, the RLM desert colours. I painted one brushed coat of each on to a piece of white plastic card to see what sort of coverage I got from each type of paint:

The enamel 249 RLM 79 Sandgelb brushed out quite thinly and felt "draggy" on the brush, a bit like trying to brush paint out a neat gloss enamel. You can see that the coverage isn't brilliant with one coat, but I'll recoat later when it's dry and check again.

The acrylic 249 brushed and covered better, but I'd still be looking to use at least 2 coats for a good solid coverage.

The enamel 248 Himelblau gave much better coverage with one coat but shared the sort of "draggy" feel.

The acrylic 248 covered best of all 4 paints tried.

I'll recoat all of them later and check coverage again.

John

[fightersweep]

Hi John;

Many thanks for that appraisal. Very interesting and the coverage doesn't seem to be too bad to my eye. As soon as I get the chance, I will do the same thing with the paints I have and post here for comparison. I couldn't get coverage like that after 5 to 6 coats. I must have a duff batch.

Regards;
Steve

[JasonC]

Jason;

Sure! I'll snap some photos as soon as I get the chance...it's a bit hectic at the moment with four kids, Christmas and all, but I will do it and post on this thread. In the meantime, here is a "What If" I posted here about a year back..

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921255-172-what-if-westland-sea-whirlwind-nf6/

The only method I use when I brush paint is first of all find a good paint...apply in two or three thinned coats and use a good quality flat brush for larger areas. I've been using the Italeri range of brushes and find them very good and reasonably priced.

Regards;

Steve

Thanks for the link to the Whirlwind. Nice model, and can't argue with the results!

[John Irwing]

Would be interested to see some photos of the results you chaps have with brushpainting. Never had any luck myself.

regards,

Jason

This was after 3 coats.

And after a coat of Humbrol clear in case the fresh paint was reacting then coat 4 this was the result.

Masking and two coats of Hu235 gloss varnished, decals and mat varnish produced this.

[fightersweep]

John;

Lovely Ju-290 you have there! Sure took a fair few coats of paint though!

I've managed to do some paint tests with the batch of Humbrol Luftwaffe paints I have, and compared them to some of the older paints I have. Results are quite stark! I need to photograph them, and I will post them up tomorrow.

Jason;

As promised, here's a couple more vintage kits I painted up with a hairy stick and some vinatge paints...the old Revell Fokker D.VII and F4U-1 in 1/72 scale.

Merry Christmas!

Regards;
Steve

Edited December 24, 2013 by fightersweep

[greycap]

hi .

it would be interesting to hear from a modern model paint maker/ supplier how he or she defends selling us what amounts to tlnted oil.

I suppose newer modellers don't know any different, and up until this thread nobody else has remarked on it or at least debated it.

best wishes

greycaap

[Seahawk]

I wouldn't want this thread to drift too far off the subejct of whether (or not) the new Humbrol Luftwaffe enamels are any good. And even there I think we need a few more user experiences before we rush to condemn them.

But....

I don't do much Luftwaffe stuff but a couple of months ago I used some utterly ancient Humbrol Authentic HG1 Schwarzgruen. What an utter privilege: perfect consistency straight from the tin, covered beautifully in a single thin coat, dried rapidly to an absolutely matt finish. Mind you, I expect the toxic chemicals in it shortened my life perceptibly.

[fightersweep]

Seahawk;

I absolutely agree. I'm just about to post up a couple of comparisons, but I'm just waiting for my camera to charge up. One of the colours I've compared is the old HG 1 Schwartzgrun and the new Humbrol equivalent. The contrast is quite amazing. The old HG 1 covered a piece of white plastic card in one coat and dried to a perfect and even finish. The new version came nowhere close!

Give me ten minutes and I'll post up the results..

Regards;

Steve

[John Irwing]

High blood pressure would most likely shorten it more.

[markg]

greycap mentions "tinted oil" .. that's a very good description of my own impression of the paint. I was surprised and disappointed when I first tried the stuff (RLM02 enamel). I didn't like the feel of it or the coverage. I have yet to try the other RLM enamels. I also bought the acrylics, but not opened any of those yet.

So far my perspective is from brush-painting, have yet to investigate with airbrushing.

[fightersweep]

Ok Chaps;

Please excuse the total rubbish quality of my photo's, but hopefully they will illustrate the point. All samples except the Gloy RLM 76 were unthinned and brushed onto plastic card in one coat. The RLM 02 doesn't come out too well and is very translucent. Of note is the quality of the old Humbrol Authentic RLM 70 compared to it's newer equivalent...No contest methinks! The Gloy RLM 76 was pre-thinned some while ago, but it is still one coat. Anyway, let's see if this helps..

Regards;

Steve

(Who clearly has nothing better to do on Christmas day!)

Edited December 25, 2013 by fightersweep

[greycap]

we will see when space ranger gets a reply from Hornby.

steve's test applies to all the modern enamels I have tried, some are better than others.

I suggest we all become avid pre shaders and then colour saturation wont matter, in any case I don't think manufactures will change simply because modellers are a captive audience with nowhere else to go.

it is good to see other modellers think a bit like me. when I have posted about paint in the past I seemed to be able to kill a thread quicker that any known site moderator.

any way ,you all enjoy the rest of the holiday.

greycap

[JasonC]

hi .

it would be interesting to hear from a modern model paint maker/ supplier how he or she defends selling us what amounts to tlnted oil.

I suppose newer modellers don't know any different, and up until this thread nobody else has remarked on it or at least debated it.

best wishes

greycaap

More the case that fewer modellers are using Humbrol I think. I use Tamiya and Gunze, occasionally Xtracylix. Never had any complaints with the first two (airbrushed), but the Xtracylix I found to be adequate but not great.

[Space Ranger]

we will see when space ranger gets a reply from Hornby.

Well, it wasn't me who was going to contact Hornby, as the Luftwaffe colors have not arrived here in the US as far as I know. But I, too, would be interested to hear what Hornby has to say about them. The test panels posted by others look like sludge!