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Heavily weathered airliners...


tomprobert

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After the Munich air crash 1958, the BEA Ambassador with the Manchester United "Busby Babes" team on board, Depths of snow, slush, standing water etc. limitations were re-evaluated and rewritten. Obviously that Antonov got off but it should never have attempted a take off. Using all the runway is on the limit another couple of "opposite locking" manoeuvres or an engine power drop and where would the plane have unstuck? Take off distance in 1/2" of slush increases by as much as roughly 30/40% - 70% but they'd only know an accurate figure once that (vid) take off distance was measured. As the depth increases the max take off weight decreases There wont be anything in any book or limitations that would have set down depths of slurry that that kite went through. Braking is degraded, the aqua planning risk increases. "On the limit" is no way to operate an airline. emergencies are one thing, taking off to keep to schedule is something else.

Edited by bzn20
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Nice Vid. There's boot fulls of rudder used at about the 25-28 second mark and the nose yaws noticeably. Uneven drag from the mud on the u/c? aquaplaning? Must have been quite exciting inside for a moment or two!

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My partners ex was a Latvian pilot for the Russians

Lets just say they do things differently there...they just do it.

A lot of things that he had to do would never be allowed in the West..

I've seen this vid before and it doesn't surprise me at all. Possibly even normal operations in some places.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My mom came to visit me from Canada a few years ago and took Alitalia part of the way.

She said the planes were filthy inside and out, but that became a secondary concern once she started experiencing the surly cabin crew.

Not only are their airplanes filthy, their cabin staff are the rudest and least customer friendly I've ever had the displeasure to experience. I flew them from ORD to MXP. Never, ever again.

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Not only are their airplanes filthy, their cabin staff are the rudest and least customer friendly I've ever had the displeasure to experience. I flew them from ORD to MXP. Never, ever again.

And if you've ever had a hotel room next door to Alitalia crew, I can assure you it's not just the planes that are dirty!

Al the somewhat sleep-deprived...

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Wondering if that applies to this? There is video from inside the aircraft (or from a similar takeoff) somewhere. It starts off clear enough, but quickly becomes clear as mud :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtYlR28Yb4

Not drag producing, but I understand the amount of dirt/dust etc that collects in the undercarriage bays of a C-17 during rough field operations can be measured in multiple pounds.

Reminds me of - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTvt5kMAsf4

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  • 4 weeks later...

It's not unknown for an airline to clean only the left side of an aircraft, the side the passengers see. An ATR at Dublin surprised me on pushback when it turned from looking ok on the right side to the left being visible, and you could plant potatoes on it!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I must confess I tend to keep my weathering on civil stuff reasonably restrained. However, I found this album on Airliners.net and it has certainly got me thinking...

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?album=31542&thumbnails=noinfo&page_limit=120&photos_in_album=65&album_name=Dirty+Airplanes&album_creator=LesageCyprien&disp_order=desc

Some great ideas for 'dirtying up' your next civil build :)

Kev1n.... control yourself ;)

Tom

Ooh those are NOICE..

THANK you for the linky...

Edited by HOUSTON
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  • 4 weeks later...

as promised....one pic of a PA 747-123 at LHR;

th_LHR-JFK_1_1988_11_zps591f232c.jpg

I'm sure thats not a crack running vertically through the rain gutter above the door - but it sure looked like it.

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  • 3 years later...

I'm bringing this one back up from the depths as a somewhat grubby Saab 340 that came into my local yesterday while I was spotting reminded me of this thread.

 

Granted it's not an airliner anymore, having been converted to freighter work, but it does still give a good example of how the grime can accumulate on those nice white finishes when they are no longer babied:

 

IMG_9843_zps0r1r5tr2.jpg

IMG_9845_zpsrvamccwn.jpg

IMG_9856_zpsafarsu7y.jpg

 

 

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On ‎04‎/‎11‎/‎2013 at 6:31 PM, pinky coffeeboat said:

I understand what you mean - some of the Chinese carriers have really filthy aircraft, as do other nations carriers in case any feels this is being unfair to China, but there seems to be more from that region that could be classed as dirty. Don't they have some kind of exterior cleaning schedule? Time on the ground costs money I know, but surely there must be a couple of hours to spare at the end of a work package?

 

I remember the Chinese stuff at Kai Tak in 1982. The Tridents looked like they'd been dragged through coal then sprayed with water, A300 and 767s looked OK though ish !.

Don't worry too much about dirt you can see, drag isn't a problem unless its turning in to moss or dunes ! Go and lift a floor panel or better still check out the Bilges (not good dirt!) .

Aircraft wash is more about cleaning off Radiation up in the atmosphere from Nuclear Bomb tests, protecting the ground crews, we got scanned in the RAF ( VC10 Base Hangar, Brize) with Geiger Counters every few (6 ish) months. A clean jet does do a good  PR job though too. I study the repairs,fasteners and skins  more than the dirt around the door from the movers's step launching and Inflight mishandling the "chocks in" position.

The comments about Pan-Am...One of the dirtiest fleets in the 10 years leading up to their demise. Air India, Indian Airlines, Dan-Air 3 more dirt ships.

Lufthansa would get my vote for cleanest, the cleanest I've  worked on. We had one a night but max 2 was possible on a night shift for a hangar wash and polish at Stuttgart.

Then there is dirt you can't do much about, get as dirty as soon as the plane's operated. Dirt, water, rubber splatter etc off the tyres, exhaust stains, toilet charging points drip, water drains from the sinks down the to the bottom of the fuse C/L. Oil and grease from lubricated parts blown/sucked out.

Edited by bzn20
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On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2014 at 6:09 PM, Kev1n said:

as promised....one pic of a PA 747-123 at LHR;

th_LHR-JFK_1_1988_11_zps591f232c.jpg

I'm sure thats not a crack running vertically through the rain gutter above the door - but it sure looked like it.

-123? Ex American ?

Doesn't look very good does it? That joint (the vertical) Skins aren't the same level, stepped and a dirt trap under the strake. I'm sure ,hope, that somebody looked at it to see whats happening there.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The airliners flying around Asia and in particular, China, get filthy due to the large amounts of pollution.  It becomes really noticeable in the typhoon season here, where the rain washes some of the particulates out of the air and deposits them on everything! Our aircraft used to have a 2 weekly cleaning schedule, (now extended to a month), as the effect of the rain and pollution combination damages the paint surface.  Airliners do prefer cleaner and shinier finishes: it reduces drag and therefore reduces fuel burn, which is what our accountants are most interested in!

 

We frequently write-up in the tech if the aircraft is really dirty and it will get scheduled for a wash as soon as possible.  Sometimes though, they get filthy: years ago I took pictures of one of our A330s sporting a particularly unattractive dirt Mohican!  I'll see if I can dig out some pictures and post!

Edited by feifeitim
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As an airline mechanic, I can tell you how the company transitions between different philosophies of handling aircraft cleanliness. I speak to the external surfaces for this thread.

 

When times are tough, keeping the aircraft exterior cleaning gets booted to the bottom of priorities. Grooming staff get laid off and wash cycles are stretched. When the company gets into a "saving every penny" mentality then costs of fuel saving between a clean aircraft and dirty aircraft weighed.

 

Currently my airline has started to re-market itself and with the new paint livery they are boosting the grooming staff and reinstating more frequent wash cycles. How long this will last, I don't know. The number of staff to wash the exterior depends on the size of the aircraft, if it is a full wash or just fuselage, etc..

 

My time before the airline I maintained C-130 and was there when they were going from a gloss finish to camouflaged scheme. On one particular aircraft log book I read in the front data that this particular bird had lost 15 knots cruise speed due to the new matte finish.

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Just stumbled upon this thread and would just like to recommend the Osprey book "SkyTrucks" by Karl-Heinz Morawietz & Jörg Weiter. 

This book takes you to Latin- and South America. Talk about well used planes! :winkgrin:

 

Cheers :bye:

Hans J

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