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Pocher Rolls Royce Phantom Torpedo


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I've started......

First, let me say I wasn't sure which kit to do first - the Phantom Torpedo, or the Sedanca.

I chose the Torpedo as although it's a much more complex kit - 3000 parts as opposed to the Sedanca 2500 parts - it is apparently an easier build with far fewer 'fixes' and alterations required.

Not only that, but I got the kit 'cheap' as it had already been started.

Upon arrival and inspection, it turned out that all that had been done was assembling the crankshaft/pistons etc. putting the cylinder head together and making a very basic start on the gearbox housing.

As 99% of these kits is screws/nuts/bolts it was a matter of 20 minutes to take it all apart again.

It did take me around 3-4 hours to check every single component of the kit against a comprehensive parts list though.... All ok.

I was somewhat amazed that the previous owner had bought such an expensive kit, and had started assembly without painting anything!

The kit is in 'ready coloured' plastic, but we all know what that means.......

I cleaned up where the parts had just been broken off the sprues with no cleaning up, filled a few ENORMOUS sink holes (Pocher kits are notorious for them) primed, painted and reassembled the bits.

Now I will be making a 'proper' start on the rest of it.

For the interest of anyone out there....

This kit has working lights via ignition key, working footbrake on all wheels via full rod system, working handbrake, full brake internals (working)

Complete engine internals that operate via starting handle that also operates the magneto, fan and generator via belts and driven gears,opening bonnet and boot, working steering, opening doors via working door handles complete with sprung latches, working window cranks to open/close windows, working convertible soft-top, sprung and upholstered seats (- proper internal frames, springs and padding) carpeted floor.

Articulated leaf springs that have to be assembled from separate leaves, shackles etc, and the famous Pocher wire wheels that have to be completely built using a jig - separate spokes and even separate spoke nipples!

The completed car is 29.5 inches long........

It will be a long build, and I will deviate quite frequently to build other kits, so I don't suffer from 'Pocher-itis'.

Please don't expect my usual frequent updates, but when I do update, I'll try to be comprehensive.

BTW...... One of the pics below shows the Airfix E-Type on top of the Rolls box, just to give an idea of the size of the box, which is JAMMED full of parts!

Roy.

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Edited by roymattblack
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I have not seen any Pocher WIP. I had few instruction sheets downloaded from net.

This is going to be interseting after u have mentioned all the working parts. Its amazing it has working internal brakes. Which material is the engine block, pistons and cyl head? 1:6 or 1:9 scale?

Rishi

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The engine parts are a mix of plastic, brass and steel.

The main block and head are plastic - an odd kind of very hard 'resiny' kind of plastic (I think). Extremely hard and difficult to cut but it takes paint very well.

The scale is 1/8.

Roy.

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Well – where do I start?

The main engine parts (if you can call it that) are assembled and it was a mission!
I’ve already discovered that there are a few golden ‘things’ you need to build a Pocher kit:

1: The ability to mind-read the person who wrote the kit instructions.
2: The ability to mind-read the person who wrote the kit instructions.

3: The ability to mind-read the person who wrote the kit instructions……..

You get the idea.
The instructions are actually little more than a very complex set of exploded drawings of all the parts and not all of them are shown as to WHERE they go.

Also, there are countless parts that are shown to assemble in say, stage 3, but then need to be removed in stage 5 for something else to go on.

The worst example of this (so far) is the rear engine/flywheel cover which is shown fitted in stage 6.

This is 4 stages AFTER the entire crankshaft, con rods, pistons, block assembly, the fixings of the big-end journals – all screwed in with 2 bolts per journal btw… (very prototypical too) and various gears etc on the front end…..

It ALL has to come out to fit the flywheel cover!!!! AAARRRGGGHH….

I now don’t use the kit instructions AT ALL, except to locate the part numbers, bags or sprues of the various bits.

I purchased the INVALUABLE Pocher Rolls Royce DVD from the USA. At the best bit of £30 it wasn’t cheap, but WOW – What a DVD!

The guy who created it has built the Rolls kits from opening the box upwards, and has photographed the fitting of every single component, screw, bolt etc, and has annotated every picture to explain what to do. There are literally THOUSANDS of pictures, all in actual build order.

There are also over 100 pages of very detailed written instructions and amazing guides for correcting the numerous Pocher faults and errors.

Hundreds of photos of real cars, built kits, engine, chassis, interior close ups and loads of copies of articles about Pocher etc…. I could go on.
If you ever buy a Pocher Rolls Royce kit, get the DVD!!!

Right – advert over…..

Using the DVD I’ve already corrected several faults and bits that would cause issues later on, that I would never have known about until too late.

I will say now that these kits really are not for the faint-hearted. They aren’t actually over-complicated but they are a HUGE undertaking.

I’ve been working on the kit for two days at this point and it looks like half an hours work if it were any other kit.

I think Pocher INVENTED ‘flash’, sink marks, the THICKEST sprue joints ever known to man – absolutely impossible to cut. You must use a saw, and many parts that ‘fit where they touch’.

All of the magneto and generator parts had to be re-drilled to accept the metal shaft that goes through them. The holes were miles too small.

It sounds as if I’m moaning about the kit but I’m not. It’s flippin’ awesome!

You just need a mountain of time, and unending patience. For example, I just spent an hour painting 91 minute bolts and nuts on the gearbox, but the end result is worth it.

This really will be a long road but already I’m lovin’ it!

Roy.

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Edited by roymattblack
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You've bene rather prolific over the last few months Roy! I have only ever seen one Pocher kit in real life and that was the Ferrari Testarossa. But that didn't have pistons and valve springs!

Stunning work as usual and definitely looking forward to seeing the finished Rolls. Any idea what colour for the bodywork yet?

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The finished car will be the same colours as the original, as per the box as it was a 'one-off' car in 1934.

It's Saffron yellow and polished aluminium which looks almost like chrome on the real thing so I'm not sure yet how I'm going to achieve that finish.

On a smaller scale silver paint would look fine but at this size, it really needs to look 'correct' so I'm going to experiment with a good chrome paint first, and then try Bare Metal Foil.

It shouldn't be a problem for the large flat parts like the bonnet bits, but the front wings might prove a bit awkward as the BMF will need to go on in one large piece so as not to have any joins.

We'll see when the time comes......

Roy.

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Edited by roymattblack
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O my God, that is some model, im really looking foreward to following this one as I have not seen a Poacher kit before, just out of idle curiosity how much would a kit like this set you back, would I need to mortgage my house!

Dave

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Goodness what a kit! I think there's more parts in that than in my 1:1Nissan.

For the chrome, might I suggest the chrome film that people who wrap full size cars use. 3M make one that is 3 Milli-inch thick or 76 microns or 0.076 of a millimetre.

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The chrome film idea is brilliant!

I'll definitely look into that one!

With regards cost of the kits....... Are you sitting comfortably????

There are currently several Pocher Rolls Royce kits on Ebay like my two:

The Sedanca Rolls is £695 and the Phantom is £945......

I paid £625 for my Sedanca, and got the Phantom (the subject of this thread) for an amazing £275!!!!

If you keep your eyes peeled on Ebay, these kits can (occasionally) be had for reasonable money, but they are NEVER what you would call cheap.

Putting it into perspective:

A Pocher kit will be (on average) £600-£800+ - BUT it will take MONTHS (maybe MUCH more if you only work a few hours at a time) to build.

I can't explain how DIFFERENT building one of these kits is to the usual plastic kit. So much of it really is nuts and bolts, screwdrivers and spanners.
The only actual 'plastic kit' kind of work is in cleaning up, preparing and painting the bits, which by the way, are HUGE, even for the small parts. For example, the distributor cap is half an inch wide!

A typical Revell kit will be £20 or so, but will be built in a few days.

Effectively, Pocher projects (you can't really call them kits) are quite economical in terms of overall spend/enjoyment/amount of work.

And don't forget, the end result (hopefully in my case!) will be impressive - this one is a tad under 30" long.

I've only been on this kit a week or so but my advice to people tempted????

Twist 'er indoors' arm.....

It's a genuine project. It will last ages.

It's WORTH IT.

Roy.

Edited by roymattblack
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Fantastic project(s)... at 1/8th scale the attention to detail potential is endless.

I've built a couple of the Pocher Tesstarossa kits many years ago but with a die-cast body they took a few weekends to complete. I'd love to try one of their Alfa's.

Good luck with the rest of the build.

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The amount of work that must have gone into designing and producing these "kits" boggles the mind. i dont think i could find the time or patience to attempt one untill i am well and truly retired, and then it will be too late so ill have to make do with watching lucky ppl like you do it for me :-)

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I started the same kit a couple of years ago and unfortunately put it aside and continued with other projects.

After seeing your posts it has prompted me to dig it up again. So hopefully will get back into finishing the build.

Reference the chrome/ aluminium parts I would recommend using Alclad.

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Reference the chrome/ aluminium parts I would recommend using Alclad.

I've used Alclad a few times in the past and I agree, the finish is fantastic.

However..... I also found it to be incredibly 'untouchable' and it dulled down to a normal bright silver after about a year or so.

I Googled to see if there's any way of clear coating the stuff to make it more durable, but it seems there isn't.

Any clear coating kills the chrome effect. I'm not sure want to use a finish that takes fingermarks and smudges so absolutely instantly and permanently.

I never use the stuff now but I'm intrigued about the mirror foil suggestion.

Roy.

Edited by roymattblack
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you could try mr color sm06 or sm01. i dip my brass pitots (oeer missus) in the chrome one and they do indeed shine like chrome, no undercoat required. sm06 is supposed to be sprayed on so dont try brushing it, but dipping small parts a few times seems to work.

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I’ve got a good part of the engine and transmission assembled now although as before, it was very fiddly. The brake/clutch/accelerator linkages particularly so.
Although it’s a bit like assembling Meccano, the parts fit very close and the nuts/bolts/screws are miniscule making it very difficult to hold parts in place, fit the bolts and then add the nuts. Fingers like matchsticks would be useful. Many of the parts have to be fitted close and tight to one another and yet still move freely on the shafts so a lot of adjusting and tweaking is required.

Once again, a full day’s work looks like I haven’t done very much at all.

On the Pocher build DVD there are a couple of 50+ page PDF files explaining how to add extra detail to the model – yes, even these huge kits have missing details.

There are a lot of very small linkages and quite a few oil lines missing so I’m adding these as per the PDF’s and reference photo’s. It entails drilling out the kit parts and fittings, adding extra unions, nuts and collars, plus making up the actual missing pipework from 18 and 20 SWG copper wire. Fortunately the PDF ‘s give very accurate drawings and measurements of all the parts needing ‘scratching’.

I found different diameter garden wire to be the cheapest way of getting a quantity after trying Ring mains cable to get the wire cores – my local DIY only sold it in small rolls as £13 a pop!

The garden wire is green plastic coated but once (very easily) stripped, it’s perfect.
£2.25 for 15m!

It has become apparent that a considerable amount of time is actually needed just to find the various parts in the bags. Fortunately, part of the DVD is devoted to dozens of close up pictures of the contents of every bag and ‘tree’, with the part numbers alongside. Without these files permanently open on my computer, it would be a massive problem as the Pocher instructions aren’t that brilliant at telling you what the bits look like ‘close-up’, or where they are on the trees etc. Actually, the Pocher instructions aren’t very good – period.

Also, I’ve had to decant the multitude of different sized nuts, bolts, washers and screws into lots of little clear plastic boxes, labelled with the part numbers, as I could just imagine them all falling out of the little plastic bags they come in.

There’s quite a bit of preparation each day before really starting any work but that adds to the fun and makes it seem more like a genuine car build, than a kit.

As before, many of the parts need sink holes filling before the parts can be used and I have to reiterate that I’ve never come across sink holes like it. Some of them are bad to the point that the casting is almost hollow.

Also, literally every locating hole has to be either drilled out or enlarged with a knife or file as the parts won’t ‘mate’ and the screws/bolts won’t fit. Time consuming, but again, part of the feeling that I’m building something more than just a kit.

There is still a lot more pipework to scratch and add........

Roy.

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Edited by roymattblack
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Hi Roy, just spotted the Alclad chrome item, Alclad now do a water based gloss clear coat to stop the dreaded finger marks ect, Its called Aqua gloss clear, it sprays on and does what it says on the tin.

Hope this helps,

Dave

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Wow I have always wanted one of the two Rolls-Royce kits, but still to date not managed to get one due to the cost - One day maybe - At least I can see what they are like through this build, looking forward to seeing your progress

Wayne

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More so far.....

The ignition wiring, distributor and cable pipes were fitted after a bit of 'modifying'.

The supplied plug wire was a bit too thick – not just visually, but also too thick for the fittings.

I used a yellow wire from inside an old printer cable as it was about the right thickness, and the real car on the DVD has yellow leads on one side, green on the other.

I made my own cable boots using small bore rubber tube.

The brass cable pipe didn’t have the central pair of ‘exit’ holes for the middle leads so these had to be drilled before fitting.

All of the plug leads actually just enter the brass pipe – they aren’t one long lead in each case.

The other side of the engine doesn’t have a cable pipe supplied so I made one of my own using a piece of plastic tube covered in gold BMF.

Although it doesn’t look like a great deal of work it ended up taking the best part of 4 hours to complete it all.

I’ve had to scratch make all of the control linkages for the carburettor as the kit doesn’t contain any parts for that.

I’ve used different gauge wire, hollow ally tube and even paper clip metal plus different thicknesses of Plasticard to make the parts. Once again the DVD files are invaluable here as there are accurate drawings of the parts needed, with all dimensions. As the majority of these parts are black on the real car, the different materials used will make no difference.

As an example, the vertical carburettor control shaft contains 10 little parts alone. The control rod flanges are only 4mm long and 1.5mm wide. My magnifying lens/lamp is coming into its own.

I can honestly say I’m really enjoying this build – so much so, I’m having to FORCE myself to get on with my ‘Prisoner’, Lotus 7 kit/diorama.

At the moment the Rolls engine is about 80% done – still a lot of linkages etc to add.

The carburettor construction was very straightforward but as with every other part in this kit, the pieces needed sanding, filing and general ‘tweaking’ to get them to fit. I kid you not.

So far, almost NO parts have been used OOB. It ALL needs fettling in some way.

The small fuel pump on top of the carb/manifold doesn't have the fuel line connectors so these had to be scratch made. The pics only show one (at the top) but both are now done.

I've added a picture of the engine next to a 1/24 Ferrari just to give an idea of the size of this thing.

The engine alone is 9" long.......

Sorry, but the pics are completely out of 'build order'.

Roy.

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Edited by roymattblack
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I'm back on the Rolls for a while now.

I’ve cleaned up the chassis rails and cross beams – lots of big sink holes to be filled but that was done quite easily using white putty. The location holes for the cross beams all had to be widened as none of the parts would fit together. Once done, nice snug fitting bits. Once again, thanks for the heads up go to the superb DVD.

The brass lower support bars had to be bent to shape and fitted and went in without any bother although fitting the cover plates on the support irons was a three-handed job.

Priming of all the parts is good old Halfords grey and the chassis bits are to be painted orange to match the bodywork.

In actual fact, the colour quoted is Saffron yellow (an orangy-mustard) but finding a good match is a devil of a job. I asked on a few Pocher forums and it seems just about everyone uses ordinary orange over a grey primer base which dulls it down considerably so that’s the route I’m taking.

Whilst I wait for the paint to dry really hard – about a week – I’ll make a start on the brake control assembly.

You can begin to get a feel for the size of this monster when you look at the chassis rails on the desk.....

Roy.

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