Golden Arrow

[Bengalensis]

As I have said elsewhere I am, besides many other things, a speed freak. I find speed record cars very fascinating and can't resist 1/24 scale kits for too long. P24's latest offering, the Golden Arrow which probably doesn't need too much presentation, was a must have from the first day it was announced and landed in my home directly from the first batch. It's actually a bit strange that I have then left it in my stash for three months, but now it's started.

The kit is typical P24 style with all main parts in resin, thankfully also the tyres this time (please do more tyres in resin), and some photo etch, here in brass. There are also two rim halves for the steering wheel that I forgot in this photo.

The photo etch includes the large patterned areas for the side mounted radiator tanks, as they are seen in period reference pictures. As the car is in the museum today the sides are smooth with more seam lines and obviously changed. I'm not sure what the history is on that change and when it happened and there are also other detail differences today.

A quick mock-up to get an impression, it's quite a long model, should look impressive when finished.

The resin looks mostly good, but there was a larger mismatch of the mould halves for the body, which left a rather nasty edge round the bottom to get rid of. I cut and sanded this away and adjusted the fit of base plate with cockpit sides. That opened up many air bubbles at the underside of the rear end, and good work with filler is needed.

[Vesa Jussila]

Interesting project. Is this kit still available somewhere?

[Bengalensis]

P24's own web shop say they have one in stock, but I'm not sure if that's the very last one ore just the last of the current stock batch. I think they were only going to do 75 kits.

[Bengalensis]

It takes some sanding, refilling, more sanding and scribing to bring the rear underside in order. Some rivet detail had to be sanded off and redone. The rest of the body is much better and there actually seem to be no more need for any filler on it.

The rivet detail above the third exhaust opening was broken and needed repairs.

I drilled them out, glued 0,5 mm styrene rods in place and sanded to shape.

The radiator tanks were also cleaned up and filler applied and sanded. I was going to try the photo etched sides on them but decided this was enough for tonight.

[Bengalensis]

I prepared the radiator couplings and test fitted the tanks to the body. It all looks good so far.

Then it becomes clear that someone screwed up a bit. There has to be holes for the couplings in two of the photo etched radiator tank patterns, but that has not been made. I should be able to drill all through the resin cores, then glue the inside photo etch first and grind through from outside before gluing the outside photo etch. Just a little annoying.

[Natter]

I have no doubt that this is going to be a thing of beauty...

[triumphfan]

Great subject and a good looking kit. Shame about the faux pas on the rads, wonder if the kit has been rectified now.

Are you going to weather it like the one on Profil 24's website? I think this could look awesome considering your skills in that department.

Looking forward to seeing this one developing.

Steve.

[Bengalensis]

Thanks guys. I'm quite sure they have made all the photo etch for the full batch of kits at one time as they say only 75 are to be made. It's not a huge problem really, more annoying. If I glue the photo etch well around the hole and grind carefully or just drill a small guide whole from the back it should be no big issue to fix. I tend to forget quickly about such things as I appreciate makers who take the risk of doing these odd subjects at all, more sales to them. It will absolutely be weathered, I think this kind of subject really needs that.

[wkennerley]

Wow nice model, I resprayed a metal model of this car for a friend of mine some years back, a lovely car. You mention resin tyres and please make more resin tyres, could I ask why? I would have thought rubber would have been best or am I missing something here? I am not all that familiar with resin - Thanks Wayne

[rmcclure]

Fascinating build. I had no idea this kit or company existed so I'm watching this very closely. What a terrific subject.

[Bengalensis]

Thanks guys. There are several reasons why I don't really like the various types of soft tyres in car kits, be it resin or styrene kits. I find them difficult to paint, which I often think gives a more realistic appearance, decals adhere less well and they are more difficult to create flat "weight spots" on. Also they are not always to be trusted over time. I have older models, 10-20 years old, that the tyres have either split on, or affected the styrene rims of, or the softener in the material is leaking out leading to a deformed shrunk tyre. Most are fine regarding ageing, but not all. I very much prefer a more stable, workable and paintable material, but it is my personal preference. To have good threaded tyres in styrene is of course difficult due to the tooling restrictions, but in resin that's not a problem.

I glued the photo etch to one side of the tanks. Then dried a little drill on a scrap piece and discovered that was pretty much out of question, but it was easy to get a small location mark showing on the outside. So I did the marks and worked carefully with a rotary file in my Dremel.

I even managed to avoid making any damage on the surrounding surfaces, and to build right and left side tanks.

[Mike]

Looks good so far

[Bengalensis]

Thanks Mike. Today it was time for the cockpit. The headrest fits well, but the seat is offset to the left. First I thought I would cut of the whole cockpit thing off from the base and reposition, but then it turns out that only half of the problem is the cockpit sides, the other half is the seat that is tilted to the left.

Sanding the seat bottom so that the seats sits level makes up a lot. It seems that I can then add 0,5 mm to the left wall and sand just a little tiny bit on the right side of the seat to achieve the rest.

That is much better. The gear lever gets a thinner steel pin instead of the resin.

The steering wheel builds up nicely, but I must add a little detail to the hub as it's very visible. I know I have seen the perfect parts in one of my PE-scrap boxes. I always know that. And also this time I spend an eternity picking through everything with my tweezers and there is nothing like what I thought there...

In the end I settle for a reasonable ring and three uselessly thin hexagon nuts that I glue together to come up with this.

It all looks fine in a test fit, except that the photo etched instrument panel is almost 3 mm too high, pushing it down far too low. Or there is too much resin in the top of the body.

I thin down the resin as much as I dare and that gets me half the way. After cutting down the panel as much as possible it actually fits well with the desired position of the steering wheel and looks OK compared to reference pictures.

I thought any foot pedals would not really be seen that deep forward, but I will probably have to reconsider that and find some useful parts tomorrow.

[triumphfan]

Nice progress Jorgen. The steering wheel looks well detailed with that boss, gotta love the scrap bin!

The foot pedals may probably be hard to see but it gives one that warm feeling to know they are in there.

Steve.

[Bengalensis]

I looked at what little references there are and realised the pedals should probably be further back than I thought. So I engaged one of my many leftover Mr. Tamiya-San to go back in time and make a seat test, which showed pedals to be very necessary.

These pedals are plentiful here and didn't look too much out of place I thought. The floor got covered with a patterned sheet, probably not accurate but it just looked too plain before. I also discovered there should be a lever on the right side, much like an old parking brake handle. An old Pyro 1/32 kit used as a donor many years ago still had this handle left.

Then I added Evergreen strips with some rivet detail to the joint line between body and base in the cockpit. Some PE-strips for the windscreen mounts also found their way in.

I think this will complete the cockpit.

[Fastcat]

Hi Jorgen,

I'm following your work on this kit with great interest as I've just bought one of these kits and am waiting for it to arrive.

Some thoughts so far. On some pictures I've seen of the cockpit, the instrument panel seems to be angled back at the top. Maybe this accounts for the panel being much too large to fit. If you slope it, it becomes effectively shorter.

The curved panel on the left inside of the cockpit seems to end in line with the steering wheel and the gearstick is well forwards of this and is mounted in a cast tower. It has three forward gates, ie forward first, straight back for second and to the right and back for third. There appears to be a mechanical lockout for reverse immediately in front of third gear.

The foot pedals are indeed well back and appear almost in line with the bottom of the instrument panel.

There appears to be only two gauges, one very large on the right and a much smaller one on the left. This is odd as I'd expect more, at least for oil pressure and temperature and also water temperature.

I stress that this is all relative to the car as it is today as I can't find any contemporary pictures of the cockpit.

On all its record runs, the side radiators were present. I think they were removed afterwards when the car was stored, probably because of corrosion or damage through age. One picture shows the car up on screw jacks which went through holes in the bodywork and the side radiators are covered with wooden shields to prevent accidental damage. There is still a little of the radiators left, they can be seen inside the lower part of the sponsons.

I'm not sure that the decals or the markings on the car at the moment are correct. In some period shots, the little Union Jack appears to be wavy edged as if it were in a breeze, rather than absolutely rectangular and in the only shot that shows the Irving-Napier legend, this looks like a hastily stuck on affair, but none of the shots are large enough or of great quality. Pity for such an amazing machine.

I look forward to your next progress report!

Dave

Edited September 17, 2013 by Fastcat

[Bengalensis]

Thanks for the thoughts, they are very good. I thought I angled my dash panel enough to make it look like the reference pictures, but perhaps it should be slightly more. I would never be able to fit it as it was though, as that angle would have to be quite extreme. I'm guessing that the panel should not be symmetrical as it is in the kit. My impression is as yours, that what is on the left side is smaller, I was looking at it today and will have to address that. Was it like that when the record was set? No idea so far, but not unlikely. Also the gear lever should probably not be as it is. But should the left side curved panel really end in line with the steering wheel? I was under the impression that the drive shafts were fairly close to the seat on either side, not far behind those curved panels. I have seen a little of the gear shift gate on a naked build photo, but thought it may was covered. I have the same opinion as you on the decals. The flags look smaller and possibly wavy, and I'm not sure that the text was really there when raced, in several pictures I can see no trace of it. I also found more questions today.

Overall though I really like the kit and I love P24 for doing these odd subjects.

Tonight I prepared exterior details. There aren't that many of them. The sight device got some added detail. The stalks will be cut to length after painting. One of the photo etched side parts for the windscreen frame had two etched rivet details, the other did not. I could see nothing like that on the period pictures I have so I soldered them and sanded flat.

The exhaust stacks from the centre cylinder bank are no problem.

I have however spent quite some time trying, and failing, to exactly understand the stacks from the two side banks. I understand how P24 intends them to be fitted alright. But should they should end above the bodywork and blow right onto it, or were there cut outs and the stacks went through. But if so they would probably have been much longer than the centre ones, to reach under the frame since I suspect the underside was covered? And were they really connected with something on the back side, outside of the bodywork? I can't really find out from period or even modern pictures of the restored car.

I will start with the axles and wheels while I think about that.

[Fastcat]

Hi Jorgen,

From what I can make out, the curved side cover in the cockpit ends at the gear lever tower and then a second section continues forwards beyond the tower so that the drive shaft is hidden both forwards and rearwards of the tower.

Regarding the exhausts, I don't believe there is any way that they would blow directly against the bodywork. I'm assuming it would be aluminiuim and the heat would either distort or melt it.

If you look closely at frontal views of the restored car, you can see a slot in the bodywork immediately below each cylinder bank with pipes entering just inside where the chassis rail would be. I can't see this on any of the period photos because they are too dark and have too little resolution. On all the body-off views I've found, the exhaust stubs have not been fitted so there's no clue from them but I'm reasonably sure that's how it went.

I too would expect an undertray and I'd have expected the exhausts to go through it rather than vent inside the bodywork with the likelihood of toxic fumes entering the cockpit but I wouldn't worry overmuch as the exhausts will hardly be visible under the car.

I like the way your build is developing.

Best of luck with it

Dave

[Bengalensis]

I see, I think, what you mean with gear lever tower and the panels. I had a good thought last night and the drive shafts must be further down and/or out, so I can cut down the curved panel and make room for the gear lever tower/gate. I will do something about that and we will see how it looks.

I would also think it strange if the side exhausts blew right onto the bodywork, not least as it would be very close as well. I have seen the dark areas that may look like slots in the bodywork, but my impression is that they were a good bit forward of the exhausts, where P 24 have scribed a small cover/hatch on either side, you will see when you get your kit, but I will but up a picture tonight. It may be difficult to judge from the photo angles I have though and my judgement of it may be wrong.

[Fastcat]

Hi again Jorgen,

Had another look at the photos of the restored car and I think what confuses things is that in front of the lower exhausts is part of a metal tube. I found this out by looking at one of the higher res. colour pics and lightening it considerably (using Photoshop or similar). It showed a hole with this part "sleeve" sticking up. I say part because there are holes around the top edge which suggest there was another piece attached to it. I also think the lower exhausts have no stubs fitted and are blanked off for some reason. You can see the fixing screws around the manifold but no stubs. Behind the "sleeve" is a rectangular hole with squared edges which I reckon is the cutout for the exhausts but it looks as if any stubs would overhang at least some of the cutout. Maybe they did blow on top of the body to some degree but the cutout helped to disperse the heat. It's also possible they were slightly curved which would also help.

Looking at other installations of the Napier Lion, I can't find any evidence of the exhausts being linked. Maybe Profil took a liberty here and linked them to aid assembly. What I also found was a set of pics of the restoration which you might find useful.

See here: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?58965-Napier-Lion-in-Sahara

You can see the two thin metal tubes sticking up just in front of the lower cylinder banks.

Hope some of this helps. No definitive answers, just guesswork I'm afraid.

Incidentally, amazingly this is the second model of this car in this scale. Scalekraft did one a while back although theirs had the radiators blanked off as the restored car has.

Best regards

Dave

[heloman1]

Great choice of subject Jorgen, it looks like very nice kit and your usual attention to detail will no doubt make it into an even better model. I have the very old 43rd scale kit somewhere in the stash but hardly the quality of this kit.

Colin

[Bengalensis]

Thanks a lot for the encouragement. Today I have managed to not make any progress at all, apart from mental work regarding gear linkage but mostly lower exhausts. You can get a lot of thinking done in four hours driving for a work meeting, despite using a favourite car and smaller dwindling roads.

Really great photos of the car without bodywork in that link, thanks a lot, I had not seen them before. They gave much food for thoughts.

Here are two pictures of the model with the scribed "hatches"(?) highlighted that are in the approximate position of where I interpret the dark area of the restored car, well in front of the exhausts.

Dave, now when I look at those "new" pictures I think that the exhausts from two side banks are blowing much more at an angle towards the sides than I first thought. If the stacks were to go straight down inside the frame I think they need be curved considerably inwards. This is easier to see on the photo of an engine with a cut propeller attached. Also on the photo of the naked engine in the car taken from the rear right side (PICT0020) it is clear how very close to the frame/bodywork the exhausts are, but I see no matching cut out in the frame, instead it seems to almost block the exhausts? Indeed difficult to interpret and guess what to do. I'm quite sure I must separate the connected exhaust parts and position them one by one though.

Another interesting thing is the front connections for the radiators are going right across where the side exhausts are if they were blowing through the bodywork inside the frame.

I also took a measurement from the top of the bodywork down to the centre exhaust stacks and transferred that to the side exhausts, then realising they need to be moved out a bit from where they seem to fit (and from how they sit n my pictures). This makes the whole issue even more apparent.

Interesting indeed.

[Fastcat]

Hi Jorgen,

I agree with you regarding the curve in the exhausts but have a look here :http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2012/07/land-speed-record-vehicles-part-one.html

and here: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_112987/article.html and here: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_113048/article.html

If you look you can see the sleeve I mentioned in the area you pencil marked. If you look at the larger photo, particularly if you lighten it a bit, behind the aperture for the sleeve, you'll see a rectangular hole in bodywork, right under where the exhausts are. In the smaller photos, it's possible to see the floor through the hole. There are also photos here which are useful. A couple of these show the same hole. http://picasaweb.google.com/113902400204777441765/GOLDENARROW

It still doesn't make it clear if the exhausts entered the apertures or just blew above them. There must be more pics of the original build somewhere!

Best regards

Dave

[Bengalensis]

Great pictures! Thanks, I had not found those pages before. Back to workbench with both sides of the cockpit.

I now see the cut outs you mean under the side exhausts. Looks like they are wider than the frame underneath. It all looks quite strange and somehow I get the feeling that the restored car (as so often in cases like this) does not quite match what it was when raced, or parts are simply missing. I guess a simple fix would be to separate the P24 exhaust parts to individual stacks, carve out a slight recess under them and replace the hatches in front with parts looking like those sleeves, and not bother more. But I would prefer to know how it worked and how it really looked back then... Not least would it affect how the exhaust stain weathering would have to look...

[stevehnz]

I've been enjoying this. As a LSR groupy since way back, this looks pretty damn good. Imho, the golden Arrow was one of the best looking LSR cars & you appear to be doing a super job of her, Fastcats links (thanks) have surely elevated Beulieu to the top of the list for my proposed trip to the UK next year.

Steve.