keefr22 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 As Bill pointed out in the Airfix Harrier thread the GR1 didn't have the circular 'holes' in the tailboom. However GR1A's apparently did, & the jet I want to build turns out to be a GR1A. So does anyone know if there were any other visible differences between the two variants that would need doing to the Airfix kits? TIA Keef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) No, you do need to remove the smaller, rear outlet on top of the fuselage (which is for later GR3s). Otherwise, the Gr1/GR1A have no external differences (Other point to watch is some have small cooling holes drilled on the tail cone, if you have a pic) Edited August 18, 2013 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Thanks Dave, much appreciated. Already removed the small fuselage top outlet as per your previous advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiff guy Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 what about the difference between the gr.1a and early gr.3's Regards Glenn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 what about the difference between the gr.1a and early gr.3's Regards Glenn. The two aft facing alternator cooling outlets on the engine bay doors were removed during Retrofit and oval shaped panels simply riveted in place. They were then brush painted with whatever tin of DSG or DG was nearest to hand. Quite often there would be pre-positioned and prepared engine bay doors fitted in place of the originals. These may or may not have been spray painted. DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiff guy Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 thanksfor that i thought they were missing on the gr1a thanks regards Glenn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 The two aft facing alternator cooling outlets on the engine bay doors were removed during Retrofit and oval shaped panels simply riveted in place. They were then brush painted with whatever tin of DSG or DG was nearest to hand. Quite often there would be pre-positioned and prepared engine bay doors fitted in place of the originals. These may or may not have been spray painted. DR Just to add to what Dennis says, the single outlet was added later, but it still appears on some pointy nosed GR3s aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 No, you do need to remove the smaller, rear outlet on top of the fuselage (which is for later GR3s). Dave, The good news is that Airfix tell you to remove this in step 12 of the GR1 instructions. The bad news is that they don't tell you to fill the holes in the tail boom. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 The bad news is that they don't tell you to fill the holes in the tail boom. Pick a GR1A to build & you don't have to! I hadn't started the build when I asked Dave about what outlet needed removing so hadn't seen the note in the Airfix instructions - thought it was good that they do mention it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 One other question for the Harrier experts if I may. There are two large rectangles on the upper surface 'saddle' just ahead of the wing. Are these actually holes (technical term!)on the real thing? If so did they have a mesh covering? They look like they'd be a prime candidte for FOD entry points if they didn't! It's too late for this build, but if they are indeed large openings in the fuselage I fancy opening them up & boxing them in on my next one to give them some more depth than the black paint on this one will give. TIA again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 One other question for the Harrier experts if I may. There are two large rectangles on the upper surface 'saddle' just ahead of the wing. Are these actually holes (technical term!)on the real thing? If so did they have a mesh covering? The starboard one should have a mesh covering and is an intake (if I remember properly) and the port one is an exhaust and is open, but should be a little deeper than Airfix have moulded it. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Cheers Mark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The two aft facing alternator cooling outlets on the engine bay doors were removed during Retrofit and oval shaped panels simply riveted in place. They were then brush painted with whatever tin of DSG or DG was nearest to hand. Quite often there would be pre-positioned and prepared engine bay doors fitted in place of the originals. These may or may not have been spray painted. DR I knew Dennis would know!! Am I right in assuming that the two cooling outlets were removed when the GR1's/GR1a's were updated to GR3? Did the new single outlet replace them at that stage - it looks like in certain pic's that ther ewere no fairings at all! That could of course be the angle of the photo!!! Additionally....Airfix have left off the two small strakes immediately in front of the outrigger fairings. Easy enough to replace, but pic's on my Aeroguide 12 suggest that these may have been retro fitted. Is that so, or were they they from the start? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Additionally....Airfix have left off the two small strakes immediately in front of the outrigger fairings. Easy enough to replace, but pic's on my Aeroguide 12 suggest that these may have been retro fitted. Is that so, or were they they from the start? Cheers Hadn't noticed those Bill, shall have to check the pics of the jet I'm doing. Thanks for the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Hadn't noticed those Bill, shall have to check the pics of the jet I'm doing. Thanks for the heads up! This is a GR3 at Brompton RE's museum in Gillingham...its quite apparent here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I knew Dennis would know!! Am I right in assuming that the two cooling outlets were removed when the GR1's/GR1a's were updated to GR3? Did the new single outlet replace them at that stage - it looks like in certain pic's that ther ewere no fairings at all! That could of course be the angle of the photo!!! There was a period where some had no outlets, but it was found cooling through the engine was insufficient. (Courtesy Dennis!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) This is a GR3 at Brompton RE's museum in Gillingham...its quite apparent here Mmm, can't say I'd consiously ever noticed those before, but they are also on XZ997 at Hendon and XZ130 at Duxford. - and XV750 at Paris in 1969!!! Also on AV-8As and Cs and SHars!! I guess your mind ignores what it wants!! Edited August 19, 2013 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Mmm, can't say I'd ever noticed those before I have! Had 'em embedded in the back of my head more times than I care to remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I have! Had 'em embedded in the back of my head more times than I care to remember... Ouch!!! It seems most kits have them though..certainly looking at the Xtrakit T4 & T2 , The Esci kits (one of each are randomly scattered across the workbench at the moment!) AND Aitfix's biggy 1/24th GR3 . So........... due to this ommission -- I declare that the new Airfix GR1 is now unbuildable!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Mmm, can't say I'd consiously ever noticed those before, but they are also on XZ997 at Hendon and XZ130 at Duxford. - and XV750 at Paris in 1969!!! Also on AV-8As and Cs and SHars!! I guess your mind ignores what it wants!! They are pretty tiny in 1/72nd Dave.....some kits have them as round lumps, whereas they look really thin and sharp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 So........... due to this ommission -- I declare that the new Airfix GR1 is now unbuildable!!!! Absolutely!! That's it, mine's going in the bin....!! Ta for the pic Bill - but I now realise why I couldn't see them on the 1970's quality printed pics in the Airdoc book! And as I can't see them, I have to assume that my jet didn't have them & therefore leave them off (so in theory that means my kit IS buildable & I don't need to chuck it after all!!) As an aside, mine is actually nearly finished now, the quickest build I've done since I was buying Airfix kits in plastic bags from Woolies! It really is fun to put together (sorry Bill, that is if you don't get a warped one!) & much more enjoyable than the Vampire....well done Airfix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat C Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Bill - if you have the Esci Harriers on your bench how does the Esci AV8-A compare with the new Airfix kit? I was going to build the former as a GR1 and following this thread with interest to see what changes might be needed! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Bill - if you have the Esci Harriers on your bench how does the Esci AV8-A compare with the new Airfix kit? I was going to build the former as a GR1 and following this thread with interest to see what changes might be needed! Pat I don't have the Esci AV8A Pat, but I do have one of their GR3's and a Sea Harrier FRS1 on the bench . Overall? Well personally I can't give the new Airfix kit a 10/10, due to the fit problems I had...also niggly little things...panel lines are better than recent kits, but still overdone. Also there's one or two areas that can be improved - but that's modelling! Airfix's decals are superb! As for the Esci kits, well they are approaching their 30th birthday soon! Biggest problems being the lack of cockpit detail, dodgy seats and poor outer pylons (with the fairing in place under the wing) . None of the issues with either kit are insurmountable....I reckon that I must have built a good few dozen Esci Harrier/Shar kits over the decades and still think they are the best overall. I certainly wouldn't even consider using Airfix's new Sea Harriers over Esci's!!!! Esci's panel lines are just right for this scale. But for an early AV8A - I'd certainly recommend Airfix's new kit...It can be built OOB following the modifications for the GR1 listed above...they used the same seats,though I daresay someone will be along soon with Stencil(sp?) seats. You may have to add the pointy aerial on the upper fuselage and of course change the decals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 But for an early AV8A - I'd certainly recommend Airfix's new kit...It can be built OOB following the modifications for the GR1 listed above...they used the same seats,though I daresay someone will be along soon with Stencil(sp?) seats. You may have to add the pointy aerial on the upper fuselage and of course change the decals... Pavla already do a Stencil for the AV-8A; http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PAVS72042 From what I can remember from recent threads (so this may be rubbish as I'm going from memory!) it was only the first 30 AV-8's that had the same seat as the GR1, & there was I believe a post that suggested they were retrofitted with the Stencil? The only other things that I picked up for an AV-8 were the aerial you mentioned, & the different outlets on the fuselage tops. Oh, and maybe those strakes in front of the outriggers.....??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I've been trawling through a few websites tonight (pure Harrier porn!). I'd certainly recommend looking at as many pic's of each individual airframe as possible, if you're looking for accuracy! Some of the sites include The Gutersloh Spotters (just google Gutersloh Spotters) site ...loads of pic's of resident 3 & 4 Sqn Harriers, plus 1 & 20 Sqn abd 233OCU as visitors. Also ABPic's... There are plenty of anomalies from what the standard (well, my) understanding may be....its apparent to me that the double cooling fairing, associated with the GR1 are on some aircraft with the 'holes' in the tailboom. Pointy nosed aircraft with and without single and/or double fairings. There are pic's of Glossy aircraft - dated as 1975........ As for 3 Sqn.,and mostly on the GR3, there are literary dozens (well a lot anyway!) of variations of the green/yellow bars with or without the cockatrice badge. There's enough variations to keep any Harrier nut happy for a lot of Happy Harrier modelling sessions!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.76f12b87ce9ca9929c9aabdcf8f9d2dd.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now