ROGERD Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 first off , would anyone know of details / diagrams of camera fits for USAF RB26,S, secondly for machines that were turretless, what was installed in the redundant gunner station? I assume that both the above had all wing gun / gun pods removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Neu- Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Is there a specific era you're interested in? Earlier models had various camera fits in the nose bombardier station usually with a glass cut out on the port side. I have some photos of them relating to Korea. Later ones had some cameras in the bomb-bay (not too sure about the later ones though.) They would carry flash bombs in there as well. AFAIK most RB-26s had their turrets removed... at least the ones in Korea did. I don't think they had anything installed... the point was to reduce weight and drag. Edited August 9, 2013 by -Neu- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGERD Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 thanks, thats more or less what I suspected - I have markings for a red white checker tailed USAF RB26 and a french B26C, I believe that the french reinstalled the wing guns, but have yet to see photogarphic proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Not sure about the RB's but the WB weather birds were totally stripped of armament and armor plating. A friend's father flew WB's as navigator, arriving at Kimpo a few days after the armistice in 1953. He related a story of when a Chinese La-11 came up behind them with evil intent. The pilot simply firewalled the throttles and left the (very speedy) La-11 in the dust. I do *so* wish there was a decent kit of the Douglas B-26. Another of those cursed airplanes that no kit manufacturer can seem to get even remotely correct. The less said about the Monogram 1/48 kit, the better. Sadly, the box scale 1950s Monogram kit is still the most accurate kit of the Invader ever made... J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGERD Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 there are dark rumours about a 1/32 , but I agree, a decent 1/48 is needed - what is so wrong with the monogram kit, I,ve just started to build this but have noted where improvements could be made, but only minor things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I had a quick look around and all I could find was these two images, but if you need info on the cameras or pyrotechnics I can help. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 there are dark rumours about a 1/32 , but I agree, a decent 1/48 is needed - what is so wrong with the monogram kit, I,ve just started to build this but have noted where improvements could be made, but only minor things I used to have a four page list of all the measurements and proportions of the Monogram kit that were wrong, but it's disappeared over the years. Just look at the model vs. photos of the real thing. It doesn't look like a real A-26. The sit is wrong, the proportions of the fuselage are wrong (the cockpit is noticeably too wide), etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Some more drawings that may help? The turrets, top and bottom were removed to increase speed, all associated equipment was also removed. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Neu- Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) thanks, thats more or less what I suspected - I have markings for a red white checker tailed USAF RB26 and a french B26C, I believe that the french reinstalled the wing guns, but have yet to see photogarphic proof Ah, so you're doing a 16th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron bird from Shaw AFB... I think 1950 to 1953. I had a quick look around and all I could find was these two images, but if you need info on the cameras or pyrotechnics I can help. John Thanks John So the first photo you posted is I guess a "late" installation... as is the diagrams you posted in the second set. I've actually never bomb bay doors in photos have that sort of modification. The RB-26s that flew in Korea (and I suspect the 16th TRS scheme you want to build) had a much more simple construction. Appendix above I think illustrates a what would be the typical camera scheme for an early 1950s RB-26. The Two split verticals would sit in a compartment to the aft of the bomb bay. From photos of the 12th TRS in Korea, I don't know if the single vertical also sat there, as I have photos of technicians installing it in the front of the aircraft, over top of a special window where the bombardier usually sat. Usually the K-37 was used, but I've seen a K-17C being installed as well. The rear station where the gunner formally sat was rebuilt into a second navigator section, and he also operated the LORAN/SHORAN system when installed. The Bomb bays carried one of two different types of illumination system. The A-3/A-14/M-112 cartridge system (which didn't work very well and was all but abandoned by 1952) or the M-46 photoflash bomb (more reliable but less effective). I can't find any photos of the former (except maybe of the photo john posted above), but the latter can be found if you google it. Hope that helps. Edited August 11, 2013 by -Neu- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmat Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 The bomb door would be used on the late 50s/early sixties RB-26L and On Mark RB-26K. Look for glass nose B-26s. RB-26L, I believe. http://www.aero-web.org/database/aircraft/getimage.htm?id=10580 Note the windows on the bomb bay doors. The forward looking camera installed in the nose. Also the pylon on the nose is for the HF antenna wire that goes to the tail. This was a feature of B-26s modified in the US for COIN operations. The B-26s stored at Tachikawa and perhaps Clark AB and used in the Far East in the late 50s and early 60s did not have this feature. I couldn't find a photo on the internet, but look for a glass nose B-26K in the green over light gray scheme with the bomb bay doors open. Best wishes, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Ah, so you're doing a 16th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron bird from Shaw AFB... I think 1950 to 1953. Thanks John So the first photo you posted is I guess a "late" installation... as is the diagrams you posted in the second set. I've actually never bomb bay doors in photos have that sort of modification. The RB-26s that flew in Korea (and I suspect the 16th TRS scheme you want to build) had a much more simple construction. Appendix above I think illustrates a what would be the typical camera scheme for an early 1950s RB-26. The Two split verticals would sit in a compartment to the aft of the bomb bay. From photos of the 12th TRS in Korea, I don't know if the single vertical also sat there, as I have photos of technicians installing it in the front of the aircraft, over top of a special window where the bombardier usually sat. Usually the K-37 was used, but I've seen a K-17C being installed as well. The rear station where the gunner formally sat was rebuilt into a second navigator section, and he also operated the LORAN/SHORAN system when installed. The Bomb bays carried one of two different types of illumination system. The A-3/A-14/M-112 cartridge system (which didn't work very well and was all but abandoned by 1952) or the M-46 photoflash bomb (more reliable but less effective). I can't find any photos of the former (except maybe of the photo john posted above), but the latter can be found if you google it. Hope that helps. Hi Neu Yes I think the bomb bay door mod is a late fit. I've found some illustrations of the cartage system. The RB.57A also used the system but not very often or for long. From reading the text in the book it looked like the limiting factor was it was only effective at low altitude. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Neu- Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Awesome John! Now if I can figure out its scale so I can build it. From the combat reports in Korea another problem was that it just did not fire properly... leading to a lot of photos that weren't taken. I guess I'll try to scan some photos tomorrow at work and post them online. I'm fairly sure the rear compartment did not hold a third vertical camera based on some photos. Unfortunately (and more importantly) I don't know what it looks like from the exterior. Lots of questions... few answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The ones for the RB.57A were slightly different but I think I have some better drawings of them if that would be of help? I can scan them for you if you wish. As for camera fit so far as I know it's two oblique and one forward facing, but if it's anything like the Canberra's who knows! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Neu- Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) Its more the dimensions that are the issue, but I'd like to see the photo to use for a book I'm writing. I'll probably end up making some M-46s from the bombs in the Fujimi Skyraider kit... they don't look like any bomb other than the M-46 (with a fair bit of work) but it should work. As for Cameras, I've got a photo of the camera bay with only two obliques designed to create stereo images. But there isn't a third in the bay. Then I have a different 12th TRS photo with a camera being loaded into the bombardier's position. It makes me think that they separated the cameras... but I could be wrong. The 12th was a complete work in progress; they probably tried over a dozen configurations to get good nigh time photography... which required over three years of operations over enemy territory. Thanks again John! Edited August 12, 2013 by -Neu- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Its more the dimensions that are the issue, but I'd like to see the photo to use for a book I'm writing. Hi Neu Unfortunately, the manuals don't give dimensions, but I know the size of the door they are mounted on so that will give you an idea of size, at least for the RB.57A I'm guessing they were standard? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Here you are Neu, more drawings John Edited August 13, 2013 by canberra kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Neu I've found another drawing in the IPC I guess this muddies the waters more? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 8/17/2013 at 7:42 AM, canberra kid said: Neu I've found another drawing in the IPC I guess this muddies the waters more? John John, That mount must be for a single vertical camera, as there's not enough room to hold a split-vert pair of cameras. I would like to install as many cameras as possible in my RB-26C, as long as it's a correct installation. HMMMM, the search continues. Larry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Larry, it's proving very hard to find any photos that show the camera installation for the RB.26, I have found this underside shot which may show one of the camera windows that I've circled in yellow, what do you think? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, canberra kid said: Larry, it's proving very hard to find any photos that show the camera installation for the RB.26, I have found this underside shot which may show one of the camera windows that I've circled in yellow, what do you think? John John, That looks about the right location, based on the page from the RB-26C Flight Manual posted here: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/295537-lf-rb-26c-camera-info/ I am curious while that plane still has the top gun turret, since I thought they were removed to save weight? Larry Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) I was thinking about that too Larry, the one in this photo has the upper turret too, it's odd I must say, they are both Europe based aircraft perhaps that has something to do with it? the photo doesn't show any camera positions, but it does indicate that three camera's was the norm? John Edited October 30, 2016 by canberra kid added more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 John, Thanks for that great 2nd photo, showing the recce gear. I don't think that 3 cameras was the norm, rather the max loadout. In the nose it could carry one camera in either the Forward Vertical or Left Oblique position. In the rear bay it could carry one camera in the Vertical position or 2 cameras in the Split Vertical position. The Split Vert cameras and the LOB camera were only day recce, while the 2 Vert cameras could do day or night photography. Also, that camera mount you posted, from TO 1B-26B-4 pg228 was for an F24 Orientation Camera, not a recce camera. They are also called Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) Cameras or Strike Cameras. I believe that all US bombers carried them, or at least had the capability to carry them. They helped prove to higher ups that they actually hit the targets (or not). Another thing that is interesting in your photo, is that they show 12 photoflash bombs, when the max load according to the RB-26C Flight Manual is only 8. Also, in the back of the equipment group is what appears to be a flash ejector assembly with a bunch of photoflash carts in front. I have no proof that they were around during the Korean conflict, and if so, where the ejector was installed on the RB-26C. Time for more research. Larry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmat Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That's a fuel tank, not a turret. Lots of good info here. Thank you very much. Grant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Gmat said: That's a fuel tank, not a turret. Lots of good info here. Thank you very much. Grant Thanks Grant, that makes sense. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Larry another photo that may help? The split camera installation in the RB.26, not the best photo but t gives a good idea I think. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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