Alcock & Brown Phantom

[Breaker]

Guys,

Anyone got any photos or similar of this scheme on a phantom? My Dad worked on it and I'd like to build it for him as accurately as possible.

Cheers,

Breaker

[dwh]

Airliners.net have numerous photos on their website.

Also you need to make sure which one of the two aircraft you are modelling.

The reserve aircraft had the serial numbers on the nosewheel door, where as the Greenham aircraft did not

Hope this helps a little

Also modeldecal done a full sheet for these two aircraft in 1/72 many years ago with some excellent detail reference drawing

Derek

[Breaker]

Airliners.net have numerous photos on their website.

Also you need to make sure which one of the two aircraft you are modelling.

The reserve aircraft had the serial numbers on the nosewheel door, where as the Greenham aircraft did not

Hope this helps a little

Also modeldecal done a full sheet for these two aircraft in 1/72 many years ago with some excellent detail reference drawing

Derek

Thank you, I've found about 10 photos online and I did wonder about this!That would also explain why the intake blanks are different between the two. I'm a 1/48 man, was going to pick the kit up off a member but it had already gone!

[Breaker]

Can anyone explain the fuel tank set up? XV424 had 4 tanks fitted, one centre line, two out board but then one smaller tank on the middle pylon on the s'board wing.

[bentwaters81tfw]

Baggage pod.

[Breaker]

Baggage pod.

Thank you! Are these massively different in shape & size to a fuel tank?

[pigsty]

Are these massively different in shape & size to a fuel tank?

'Fraid so. They're nearer in size and shape to an old napalm bomb - in fact, I think the earliest ones may have been adapted from them. If memory serves, a pod is available in a recent Hasegawa kit, possibly an F-16, so you might be able to put something under Wanted and get some joy.

I don't like to be picky, but if you're after accuracy, wasn't the back-seater called Browne?

[Gundylunch]

If you are still looking for the kit, send me a PM

[Breaker]

'Fraid so. They're nearer in size and shape to an old napalm bomb - in fact, I think the earliest ones may have been adapted from them. If memory serves, a pod is available in a recent Hasegawa kit, possibly an F-16, so you might be able to put something under Wanted and get some joy.

I don't like to be picky, but if you're after accuracy, wasn't the back-seater called Browne?

Thank you, I'll keep an eye out.

Depends - The back seater in the Phantom was a Browne, the original flight in 1919 was a Brown. If it's the Phantom commerating the original flight, it's a Brown. If it's named after the Rio it's a Browne!

[pigsty]

Depends - The back seater in the Phantom was a Browne, the original flight in 1919 was a Brown. If it's the Phantom commerating the original flight, it's a Brown. If it's named after the Rio it's a Browne!

Ah, well, that's what I was getting at. The crew's names were painted under the sills, US fashion, and the back-seat chap was clearly Browne. I'm sure you'll be able to rely on the various decal sets to get it right - I know the Hasegawa Hi-Grade kit did. Frankly I reckon the RAF did a good job finding crew whose names were even close, although my faint memory is that one of them wasn't exactly an habitual Phantom flyer.

[Breaker]

I believe that 1970's Alcock was a nephew of the original? BrownE was in Buccaneers at the time of the flight but he had hours served in the Phantom so the RAF drafted him across temporarily.

[Breaker]

For reference -

Sqn Ldr A.J.H. Alcock MBE

Flt Ldr W.N. Browne

Where the two men who took off in 1979.

Two planes were painted up, XV424 which was the main bird and XV486 which had the number on the front u/carriage door. Interestingly, XV424 is on display at one of the RAF museums but in standard squadron markings.

[Jabba]

^{Don't forget that one aircraft had the Welsh flag on the fin.}

Edited July 25, 2013 by Jabba

[bentwaters81tfw]

This shows the baggage pod to good effect.

[chrismac60]

I was on 56 Sqn at the time this all happened. Alcock was a relation, Browne was a Buccaneer Navigator with no experience of F4's, but the only Brown(e) the RAF could find.

[Breaker]

Can anyone confirm the base colours for me? Images seem to suggest it's all over barley grey, or did it have the 3 grey Phantom scheme?

[Scarlet]

Both aircraft were painted gloss light aircraft grey overall. Both carried their respective serial numbers under the wings. The Welsh Dragon on the fin tip had the wording: - PAINTED BY RAF ST.ATHAN MAY 1979/DESIGNED BY W.R.R. HARDY, stenciled underneath it. (I thought both jets had the Welsh Dragon on the fin tip though?)

The aircraft carried very little stencil data and were kept very clean during the life of the special scheme.

[Breaker]

Both aircraft were painted gloss light aircraft grey overall. Both carried their respective serial numbers under the wings. The Welsh Dragon on the fin tip had the wording: - PAINTED BY RAF ST.ATHAN MAY 1979/DESIGNED BY W.R.R. HARDY, stenciled underneath it. (I thought both jets had the Welsh Dragon on the fin tip though?)

The aircraft carried very little stencil data and were kept very clean during the life of the special scheme.

Yeah, that would of been my Dad's job! Ahahaha!

Thank you for your info. On my reference I'm struggling to see the dragon though?

[Breaker]

ah, spotted it! I'll have to free hand that one on as I don't think the kit comes with the decal for it.

[dwh]

Yeah, that would of been my Dad's job! Ahahaha!

Thank you for your info. On my reference I'm struggling to see the dragon though?

In the book Phantom squadrons, the flag can just be seen on the left side of tail at top and to the extreme rear.

Edited July 26, 2013 by dwh

[Jabba]

ah, spotted it! I'll have to free hand that one on as I don't think the kit comes with the decal for it.

The Welsh flag is on the decal sheet in the Hasegawa Hi-Grade Phantom kit. Although the decal is not that brilliant I do have a spare if you want one.

[Patrick Martin]

In advance of the 1979 event, the IAT commissioned aviation artist, Wilf Hardy to design a special scheme for the Phantom. As Rolls Royce Eagle engines had powered the original Vimy and Rolls Royce Spey engines powered the Phantom FGR.2, the engine manufacturer, agreed to sponsor the special paint scheme. Both XV424 and XV486, from No.56 Squadron were painted at RAF St. Athan in overall Light Aircraft Grey 627, before the Wilf Hardy special markings were applied. While XV424 did not carry its serial on the forward facing nose gear door, XV486 did and while at CFB Goose Bay was zapped by CAF (Canadian Armed Forces) personnel, receiving a small CAF roundel on the forward facing nose gear door in the lower loop of the number eight. Although a photo of both aircraft together at one point was taken without a serial on the nose gear door.

Both aircraft were sent to CFB Goose Bay for the crossing, aided by five in-flight refuellings from Victor K.2 tankers, with XV424 arriving at RAF Greenham Common on June 21, 1979. The crew consisted of Squadron Leader A.J.H. Alcock MBE, a nephew of Captain Alcock (who flew the Vimy in 1919) and Flight Lieutenant WN Browne. The second aircraft XV486 was prepared in case any last minute problems arose with XV424. Following the IAT, both aircraft were to appear at several events during the summer throughout the UK. While Phantom FGR.2 XV424 is displayed in the standard air defence finish and markings at Hendon, the nose of unrelated Phantom FG.1 XV591 was painted to duplicate the XV424/XV486 special scheme for display at the Cosford location of the RAF Museum. For the June 1979 flight, Phantom FGR.2 XV424 carried the toy black cat mascot - ‘Twinkletoes’ - that had been carried on the original 1919 flight. For the Atlantic run, XV424 was flown by S/L A.J.N. (Tony) Alcock MBE (a No.56 Squadron Flight Commander and nephew of Atlantic Pioneer Sir John Alcock) and F/L W.N. (Norman) Browne, the latter a former Phantom Navigator, brought back from his Buccaneer Squadron for the occasion. XV424 is currently at Hendon. This topic will be covered in the November release (Telford) of Vol.2

Patrick Martin

author British Phantoms (AirDoc/Double Ugly)

[Caerbannog]

If it is of use for you:

Hasegawa had a HighGrade kit in 1:48 scale which is long sold out but can be found on the bay from time to time. Fujimi did one in 1:72.

CAM decals did 1:48 which are difficult to get - I bought a sheet this year at Bookhurst Hobbies in the US and they still have them, so you can safe a lot of time searching ;-)

CAM also did 1:32 which are more easy to find (Bookhurst have these discounted but Hannants should be cheaper in the end), though you will have problems in finding a suitable Brit. Phantom :-(

And finally CAM also released these in 1:72 - Hannants has them too. There was some other maufacturer in this scale but I am not sure... Modeldecal???

[Nigel Bunker]

Modeldecal sheet 55 covers this Phantom. I'm guessing it is probably the most accurate as Dick Ward took pictures of the actual plane at the IAT 79 and they were issued shortly after that. He did lots of the Wilf Hardy schemes for various planes for IATs (Boscombe Down Phantom and Dakota for example) and I suspect (but cannot prove - does anybody know for certain?) he may have had access to Wilf Hardy's original drawings for the schemes.

[Caerbannog]

No idea about that but I would not say that it will generally improve accuracy if someone had access to the concepts/artworks as it might well be that these were altered when the planes were "dressed". Of course - takeing pictures of the real thing will be much better IMHO.