Roman Schilhart Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Kit: 1/72 Eduard "Profi Pack" White 07, 566th SHAP, Leningard 1944 Paints: Gunze/Mr.Hobby Decals: Kits own Thanks for your interest! Cheers from Vienna, Austria Roman Schilhart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batcode Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 very nice work looks great , nice smooth finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Great build and finish especially for 1/72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwoolven76 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I have the weekend edition of this kit at the top of my stash pile. If mine comes out even close to this, I'll be well chuffed. Excellent work. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Sergeant Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Really nice painting and subtle weathering. I really like it! Steven Brown Scale Model Soup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Very nice build, Roman! Unfortunately the paint scheme is incorrect. The Soviets never used a brown/green scheme on their aircraft (as opposed to a few Lend-Lease British aircraft they used). This paint scheme has unfortunately become widespread over the years, and appears in profile after profile, and kit/decal instruction sheet after instruction sheet. The two main schemes that were used on the Il-2 were black/green over blue from around the middle of 1941 through the end of 1943, then from late 1943 to the end of the war, a three-colour scheme consisting of dark grey/green/tan was used, again over blue. Your Il-2, being a late war example, should have this three-colour scheme. The colours you used are not bad, but dark grey should have also been used - there were two main patterns that were used, both of which used the same colours. The best place (at least in English), to find out about the Il-2 and other VVS schemes is at www.sovietwarplanes.com. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, especially as otherwise your model is very well done. Best Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Schilhart Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Unfortunately the paint scheme is incorrect. The Soviets never used a brown/green scheme on their aircraft (as opposed to a few Lend-Lease British aircraft they used). This paint scheme has unfortunately become widespread over the years, and appears in profile after profile, and kit/decal instruction sheet after instruction sheet. Thanks for feedback, Learstang! I understand that VVS colours are a controversial topic! However, all my reference material (Squadron/Signal "Il-2 Stormovik In Action" and "Iljusin Il-2" from Jakeb Publ. as well as the kit instructions) depicts both two- and three-tone camoflage patterns, in green/black, green/brown/black, or green/brown pattern. I cannot confirm the camoflage pattern on this particular aircraft, since I know only one b/w photo, showing the fuselage side with the patriotic slogan, but not the whole aircraft. I believe you are much more of an expert then me when it comes to VVS colours - how come all of these sources get it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuad Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) I must admit that Learstang rights. The "Soviets" used two-color scheme on fighter - green AMT 4/ black AMT 6 at the beginning of the war, gray AMT 11/ dark gray AMT 12 at the end of the war. Bombers and attack aircraft - just green AMT 4 at the beginning of the war, and three-color scheme green AMT 4/ brown AMT 1 or A-21 / dark gray AMT 12 at the end of the war. Lower surfaces in all - only blue AMT 7. There is nothing to dispute. This is like the german RLM standards. Edited July 15, 2013 by Fuad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Putting Jasons comments about the colour scheme aside, this is a superbly modelled effort & gives me great hope for the one I have in stock. VVS colours are a subject that I have struggled to get my head around & still don't claim to be totally comfortable with them, but I am happy to go with Jason & the link he gives as authoritive. The answer to your last question may lie in the fact as I see it that there have been expert(s) that have been taken as authoritive only to have been somewhat discredited more recently but their work has influecned many kit schemes & profiles & there are still people clinging to this interpretation of VVS camo which does not make unravelling this subject easy nor enable numpties like me to easily unscamble fact from fantasy. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuad Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Dear Steve, You're just not russian . That's all. Believe me, is no big deal in Russian camouflage pattern of the Second World War. They just didn't have much choice of colors. In fact, it's only one color of green, two colors of gray, one ranging brown color and only one blue and only one black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbuna Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 A stunning example and great attention to detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Dear Steve, You're just not russian . That's all. Believe me, is no big deal in Russian camouflage pattern of the Second World War. They just didn't have much choice of colors. In fact, it's only one color of green, two colors of gray, one ranging brown color and only one blue and only one black. I think I know this now Fuad, but it seems there are still those out there that don't or maybe don't want to believe this & from there the seeds of confusion are sewn & the arguments begin. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunners Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 if only that was true for every country then I wouldn't have to spend a fortune in pain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) As Fuad mentions, the matter of colours is not controversial for Russian modellers. It has been settled. There may still be arguments about exactly how dark AMT-12 Dark Grey was, for example, but nobody disputes that this colour was used. There still persists this mis-perception in the West that Soviet GPW (WWII) colours are a minefield. They aren't. In fact, compared to the number of colours the Germans used, it's actually rather simple. Again, as Fuad mentions, there were only six basic camouflage colours that were used. In terms of minefields, look at discussions of RAF Azure Blue, or USAAF Olive Drab, or RLM 83 - was this colour light or dark green, or even green (perhaps it was blue). Roman, the problem with the brown/green scheme (and the dark green/green scheme also) is that it was considered as the standard Soviet paint scheme for so long in the West that even now it still appears in instructions and profiles. The situation is improving, however. The Tamiya kits (1/72nd and 1/48th scales) have the proper colour callouts (although the AMT-1 Light Brown should be a little more tan in my view), and have the proper schemes. They also have the scheme for the particular aeroplane you built. The Academy straight-winged two-seater in 1/72nd scale also has proper colours, and in at least one instance (the Il-2 appearing on the box art), the schemes were taken from the sovietwarplanes site. If you have any questions about the Il-2 or VVS schemes, you can PM me. I'd be more than happy to help. Best Regards, Jason Edited July 15, 2013 by Learstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 if only that was true for every country then I wouldn't have to spend a fortune in pain!! Cunners, I think you meant to write "paint", but I think "pain" is perhaps more appropriate! Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Schilhart Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 (...) the problem with the brown/green scheme (and the dark green/green scheme also) is that it was considered as the standard Soviet paint scheme for so long in the West that even now it still appears in instructions and profiles. Thanks again, Learstang. It seems as if I should throw all of my reference material for VVS aircraft in the rubbish bin ... Not so long ago, I purchased this book, which I thought to be accurate: This is a Czech print from 2008, and what do we see on the cover? Green/brown camoflage. There's also a number of colour profiles reproducing the 'wrong' camoflage schemes inside. Anyway, I will be doing more research on future builds ( I have the Academy kits, both single- and double-seater plus another one from Eduard) on the Internet rather than relying on reference books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuad Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Dear Roman, You can use this http://www.armourbook.com/fly/flywwii/flysssr/12689-okraska-i-oboznacheniya-samoletov-vvs-1941-1945.html Download it from "deposit" site and enjoy. "Painting and designations of aircraft the Air Force, 1941-1945. [Aviacollection 2008-12]". But only one problem for you - it's Russian. But you can skip this PDF file via OCR for Fine Reader, and then passed through the Google translator. And it's almost free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 That's probably the best thing to do, Roman. I have that book, and the Gordon and Komissarov books, and although they have a lot of useful information about the Il-2, their profiles are not to be relied upon. I'm actually finishing up a comprehensive modelling guide to the Il-2 which has profiles done by Massimo Tessitori, the owner of the sovietwarplanes site. I believe that these are accurate profiles, and you will not see a brown/green scheme anywhere in the book! Best Regards, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Fuad must have been posting his response as I was writing mine. The book he mentions is considered the most authoritative book on VVS colours during the GPW, and the author, Mikhail Orlov, is highly regarded as a colour researcher and historian. I wish someone would do a proper translation of this work into English, at least. I have a partial translation in English, but it's never been completely translated (I've actually tried translating some of it, by my limited Russian keeps me from finishing the translation). Still, I've learned quite a bit from it. Regards, Jason Edited July 16, 2013 by Learstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike DeTorrice Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 A superb model of this Il-2M3, Roman. Wonderful construction and finish, resulting in a terrific model to display. LOL, I would also say (in my own view) that absolute, 100 % beyond-all-doubt certainty in anything from the past isn't reasonably possible in every case, so I like this scheme ! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasticbutcher Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I like your finish, very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Dear Roman, You can use this http://www.armourbook.com/fly/flywwii/flysssr/12689-okraska-i-oboznacheniya-samoletov-vvs-1941-1945.html Download it from "deposit" site and enjoy. "Painting and designations of aircraft the Air Force, 1941-1945. [Aviacollection 2008-12]". But only one problem for you - it's Russian. But you can skip this PDF file via OCR for Fine Reader, and then passed through the Google translator. And it's almost free. It doesn't seem to be working Fuad, the deposit files sites brings up a file removed message, the others are dead links. Sounds like we need a decent English version of this one for us uncultured monolingual types. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuad Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 It doesn't seem to be working Fuad, the deposit files sites brings up a file removed message, the others are dead links. Sounds like we need a decent English version of this one for us uncultured monolingual types. Steve. I am very sorry for the dead links. I have this book in PDF. Give me your mail - I'll send it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Some more intel: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/ http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il-2.htm Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Many thanks to Fuad & Jason for help with my VVS education. much appreciated guys. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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