What paints for Dark Earth / Dark Green ?

[Max Headroom]

For rattle can Dark Green I use Humbrol 163.

 

IIRC there was a thread here not too long ago when someone asked if there was an actual use for Humbrol 30. Not sure if an answer was forthcoming. Having said that, mixing it with Humbrol 90(?) 'sky' with a hint of another version of dark green gives a passable interior green.

 

Trevor

[Fernando]

Hi, everyone,

 

I use Xtracrylixs through and through, and occasionally they peel off. I use Alclad Grey Primer.

 

I have found Xtracrylixs Dark Earth just a little too light, conversely, Xtracolour too dark. Regardless of their gloss or semi gloss nature, once you try to make any colour effect (preshading, light coats, "mottle covering", etc.) they become rather flat, so a gloss topcoat is mandatory. For this I use Xtracrylixs Clear Gloss applied with a brush. Then, an artist's flat acrylic varnish to restore mattness.

 

Fernando

[BIG X]

OK - so what about Dark Green?  I have always used humbrol 30 in rattle cans & liked the result.  But I've just got my first airbrush & bought a load of Vallejo Model Air paints.  The Dark Green - 71.324 BS Dark Green is "very dark".

 

So I guess the question I'm asking is  - is the humbrol too light or the Vallejo too dark???

There is another Dark Green - 71.012 - is this more similar to humbrol???

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Steve

[lasermonkey]

In my opinion, none of the Vallejo colours look like either Dark Green or Dark Earth straight from the bottle. I can pretty much tell if an RAF Temperate Land Scheme has been attempted with Vallejo paints by how odd it looks.

 

I'd either go with Humbrol 29/116 or 163,  or Colourcoats Dark Green/Dark Earth.

Humbrol No.30 is too blue, and lacks the olive, brownish tint (for want of a better word).

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[BIG X]

Cheers Mark

 

I was coming to that conclusion myself.  The dark earth looks very "warm" with a first coat but "cools" downs with a couple more coats to be acceptable - at least for me anyway.

 

The dark green is almost verging on a black green - but I have been having a play with 71.260 - Light Grey RLM63 - it is a lot closer - a tad lighter - but much better.

 

I appreciate that humbrol dark green may be too light to start with - but I do like it & I do like the model air series so I will have a play with some more colours.

 

By the way - before anyone suggests it - I'M NOT MIXING - I DON'T HAVE THE TALENT TO REPEAT IT

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

RAF Dark Green is an olive colour. Humbrol 30 is miles off.

 

To be honest there's no excuse bar laziness / cheapness / trusting the consumer will say "wow it looks spot on" regardless how far off it is providing it has nifty shading effects showing, because it's still a current BS381C colour that anyone can get access to to match. That applies to Dark Earth also, incidently.

 

They're not colours that manufacturers should be cut any slack on for getting wrong and there equally shouldn't be much debate about the colours either besides how far they may have weathered in the aircraft's service life. BS381C-241 shows what Dark Green should look like and BS381C-450 shows what Dark Earth looked like. The BS381C shades are good practical matches with the MAP chips in the RAF Museum approved book.

[BIG X]

38 minutes ago, SovereignHobbies said:

RAF Dark Green is an olive colour. Humbrol 30 is miles off.

 

To be honest there's no excuse bar laziness / cheapness / trusting the consumer will say "wow it looks spot on" regardless how far off it is providing it has nifty shading effects showing, because it's still a current BS381C colour that anyone can get access to to match. That applies to Dark Earth also, incidently.

 

They're not colours that manufacturers should be cut any slack on for getting wrong and there equally shouldn't be much debate about the colours either besides how far they may have weathered in the aircraft's service life. BS381C-241 shows what Dark Green should look like and BS381C-450 shows what Dark Earth looked like. The BS381C shades are good practical matches with the MAP chips in the RAF Museum approved book.

Thanks SH - That is a very conclusive statement.  Where can I get my hands on these chips and do any of the Vallejo model air colours match closer than the ones they say are correct - any help would be appreciated.

[BIG X]

2 hours ago, BIG X said:

Cheers Mark

 

I was coming to that conclusion myself.  The dark earth looks very "warm" with a first coat but "cools" downs with a couple more coats to be acceptable - at least for me anyway.

 

The dark green is almost verging on a black green - but I have been having a play with 71.260 - Light Grey RLM63 - it is a lot closer - a tad lighter - but much better.

 

I appreciate that humbrol dark green may be too light to start with - but I do like it & I do like the model air series so I will have a play with some more colours.

 

By the way - before anyone suggests it - I'M NOT MIXING - I DON'T HAVE THE TALENT TO REPEAT IT

RLM62 is getting closer - well closer to humbrol 30 - which apparently is miles off - I don't know - I think I give up.  I guess I might just bite the bullet & paint my RAF stuff red & purple and then blame it on the lighting / camera / software etc for any discrepancy

[Christer A]

Just to muddy the waters further, here are yet another lousy picture of dark green.

Xtracrylix to the left, Gunze in the middle , old Tamiya XF-81 top right, new XF-81 middle right.

If we agree that Tamiya XF-81 (my old bottle atleast) was a good match for dark green, we see that Xtracrylix and Gunze are a little darker, but we also see that my new bottle of Tamiya is a lot different!

That's scary!

I need to buy a new one from another batch and compare that as well.

[BIG X]

3 hours ago, Christer A said:

Just to muddy the waters further, here are yet another lousy picture of dark green.

Xtracrylix to the left, Gunze in the middle , old Tamiya XF-81 top right, new XF-81 middle right.

If we agree that Tamiya XF-81 (my old bottle atleast) was a good match for dark green, we see that Xtracrylix and Gunze are a little darker, but we also see that my new bottle of Tamiya is a lot different!

That's scary!

I need to buy a new one from another batch and compare that as well.

Oh Blimey

[Giorgio N]

My favourite Vallejo paint for Dark Green is 888 Olive Grey from the standard model colour range. 893 is also a decent match. Again, this is also from the standard range so not as easy to airbrush as the dedicated Model Air series.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Just bear in mind that there would be small differences in one batch of the real paint from the next batch and so on. It's pretty much impossible to get a 100% match, even if a robot mixed the paints. Then factor in wear and tear from service and fading etc and it could look different again. My point is, don't sweat it too much, find one you think looks about right and just use that.

 

thanks

Mike

[BIG X]

15 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

Just bear in mind that there would be small differences in one batch of the real paint from the next batch and so on. It's pretty much impossible to get a 100% match, even if a robot mixed the paints. Then factor in wear and tear from service and fading etc and it could look different again. My point is, don't sweat it too much, find one you think looks about right and just use that.

 

thanks

Mike

Thanks MIke  a very considered viewpoint.

 

I bobbed over to Scale Model Shop in Holmfield this morning & collected a Vallejo Air 71.012 Dark Green - which seemed to be what they suggested before they launched the new 71.324 BS Dark Green.  A quick whizz on my super paint shaker & a drop on a piece of white card seems to show it is much lighter than the new version - which is almost a "Black Green".  Sadly I couldn't skive off work all day - but I will be back at the bench tonight & I have high hopes.  I will report back...

 

Steve

[Giorgio N]

Steve, forgot to add that if you're checking paints at the shop, keep in mind that Vallejos often tend to dry darker than the they look when in the bottle. Guess how I found out...

[BIG X]

9 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Steve, forgot to add that if you're checking paints at the shop, keep in mind that Vallejos often tend to dry darker than the they look when in the bottle. Guess how I found out...

Sound advice indeed.  I guess I will find out tonight (excited)

[John Laidlaw]

10 hours ago, Christer A said:

If we agree that Tamiya XF-81 (my old bottle atleast) was a good match for dark green

 

Unfortunately, XF-81 is not a good match - it's too yellow. I don't know what Tamiya were matching to when they were re-formulating for Dark Green, but it wasn't RAF Dark Green. It's a shame for those of us who love Tamiya acrylics .

[lasermonkey]

What I think is important is to ensure you've captured the nature of the required colour. Whether it's a little dark or light is neither here nor there, but, for instance, if the attempt at Dark Green is too blue , it will never look right. Put that next to a poor representation of Dark Earth which is too red and, well, it looks odd, to say the least!

I totally agree with Jamie from Sovereign Models. There's just no excuse for manufacturers getting these colours wrong.

 

[BIG X]

14 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

What I think is important is to ensure you've captured the nature of the required colour. Whether it's a little dark or light is neither here nor there, but, for instance, if the attempt at Dark Green is too blue , it will never look right. Put that next to a poor representation of Dark Earth which is too red and, well, it looks odd, to say the least!

I totally agree with Jamie from Sovereign Models. There's just no excuse for manufacturers getting these colours wrong.

 

I think you are right - dark earth / dark green - kind of popular me thinks

[Greenshirt]

3 hours ago, John Laidlaw said:

 

Unfortunately, XF-81 is not a good match - it's too yellow. I don't know what Tamiya were matching to when they were re-formulating for Dark Green, but it wasn't RAF Dark Green. It's a shame for those of us who love Tamiya acrylics .

 

XF-81, when compared to the MAP chips, is almost a perfect match.  It also matches closely to Humbrol 116 and 163 when the sheens are adjusted.  I'm not saying it looks right on a model, YMMV. I use XF-81 as my goto Dark Green because I do like it. 

 

On 4/18/2017 at 0:53 PM, lasermonkey said:

In my opinion, none of the Vallejo colours look like either Dark Green or Dark Earth straight from the bottle. I can pretty much tell if an RAF Temperate Land Scheme has been attempted with Vallejo paints by how odd it looks.

 

I'd either go with Humbrol 29/116 or 163,  or Colourcoats Dark Green/Dark Earth.

Humbrol No.30 is too blue, and lacks the olive, brownish tint (for want of a better word).

 

Cheers,

Mark.

Vallejo 921, English Uniform, is a near perfect match to the MAP chip, both brushed and airbrushed. It's their older line of brushed paint, not the model air range. I've since mixed Tamiya acrylics to match it, albeit still not perfect to my eye. 

 

I looked a few different Dark Earth model paints here: http://greenshirt-modeler.blogspot.com/2013/09/raf-dark-earth-good-hobby-paint-match.html

[John Laidlaw]

20 minutes ago, Greenshirt said:

XF-81, when compared to the MAP chips, is almost a perfect match.  It also matches closely to Humbrol 116 and 163 when the sheens are adjusted.  I'm not saying it looks right on a model, YMMV. I use XF-81 as my goto Dark Green because I do like it.

 

I must have samples from a weird batch - all three pots I have are off in the direction of yellow, and too light (which may also exaggerate the difference). Perhaps I'm also biased as their Ocean Grey (XF-82) is way too blue.

 

Maybe now airbrushing season has opened, I can do some more testing. Hey ho .

[BIG X]

I was about to reply about my latest tests...

but then I read the above posts and lost the plot...

Let me get my test piece and I will get back

[BIG X]

SUMMARY...

 

OK - Humbrol 29 & 30 are supposedly a mile off - but they are what I grew up with and they are what I have been using in rattle cans since I returned to this hobby a few months ago.  I have to admit I like them - even if they are a mile away from being accurate - they "look right" - compared to the box art - on airfix kits at least.

 

I have now taken the "next step" and invested a fair few quid on an airbrush / compressor / spray booth & a ton of new paints.  I was using Humbrol / Tamiya tinlets / bottles beforehand.  After reading lots of posts on here I have chosen Vallejo Air as my default paint set - right or wrong - they seem to suit my needs.  I don't want to be thinning down if I don't have too & the idea of mixing colours terrifies me - due to repeatability.  Up to now I haven't suffered any dry tip - which I am sure is blessing - so they seem ideal for a beginner.

 

After a load of experiments - I have concluded the following...

 

Dark Earth - 71.029 "old style" Dark Earth & 71.323 "new style" BS Dark Earth - The old style is way darker than Humbrol - maybe more accurate though?  But very different to the Humbrol I know & love.  The new style is very close, but a little lighter & "warmer" - but not a bad match - for me at least.

 

Dark Green - 71.012 "old style" Dark Green & 71 .324 "new style" BS Dark Green - this has been a can of worms.  The new style is VERY dark - almost like a Luftwaffe Black Green.  There is no way I could use this - it looks totally wrong.  I also experimented with RLM63 - which is a close match to the Humbrol 30 - but I agree is probably too light in reality.  RLM62 is close to what I perceive as right - but ever so slightly "green".  The "old style" Vallejo Air 71.012 is close to RLM62 - but slightly "cooler" & though darker than I am used to - again it looks "right".

 

CONCLUSION...

 

New style BS Dark Earth & Old style Dark Green.

 

PS - does anyone want a load of part used bottles I have no use for (laughing my socks off)

 

 THIS IS WHY I LOVE THIS HOBBY!!!  It takes my mind off work & I get to share my totally pointless meanderings with you lot - you are a wonderful crowd

 

Now I just need to build something

 

Steve

[stevehnz]

While Hu 30 is wrong for RAF Dark Green, Hu 29 is generally considered as a decent match for RAF Dark Earth. It looks good to my eye against the MAP chips in my copy of the RAF museum book.

Steve.

[Greenshirt]

4 hours ago, John Laidlaw said:

Perhaps I'm also biased as their Ocean Grey (XF-82) is way too blue.

We are in agreement there. I think it was matched to a photo; when OG is next to Dark Green, it does tend to have a bluish tint to it. But by itself it looks very much gray albeit with a blue undertone. In the tin XF-81 looks close to what I see in photos, but then looks much too blue with Dark Green. 

[Greenshirt]

32 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

While Hu 30 is wrong for RAF Dark Green, Hu 29 is generally considered as a decent match for RAF Dark Earth. It looks good to my eye against the MAP chips in my copy of the RAF museum book.

Steve.

I used Hu29 for aover a decade and it looked right to until I got my copy of the RAF Museum book. 

 

My assessment back in 2013:

Quote

Hu29 is generally accepted as the standard paint, but against the RAF Museum (the Standard), Hu29 is grayer and browner. It's almost a chocolat color when overlaid on the chip. Unlike the Standard, there does not seem to be a hint of green to Hu29.

 

That was when I went a trek to find a paint that matched the chip. I admit I may have had a batch of Hu29 that was off, but now I use Vallejo or my own Tamiya mix as I've shifted to acrylics.