woody37 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I've been using Xtracrylics for a while, but finding that they flake off easily under masking tape so want to try another paint. What can you guys recommend as an alternative acrylic replacement ? I moved to Xtracolour years ago due to them being gloss, hence not darkening under varnish so Xtracrylic was an obvious move. If the alternatives are matt in finish, how does varnish affect them, do you lighten them to compensate ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Maas Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I use Tamiya XF-52 for Dark Earth (it's close but not exact) and XF-81 for Dark Green (it's about perfectly matched). If you are having adhesion issues, I'd look into primer options first, a solid primer coat will solve most adhesion issues with acrylics. Personally, I tend to use Tamiya XF-19 as a primer, generally when I'm using Vallejo Model Color or Model Air paints, which I find to have very poor adhesion. As to the effects of gloss coats, I don't find much shift which isn't counteracted by the following flat coat. Edited July 8, 2013 by Adam Maas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 Thanks Adam. I'm using Tamiya primer. I'll experiment with some of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 ...or you may want to use Polly-scale Plastic Prep (if you can find it)or Denatured Alcohol and cotton swabs to wipe down your kit before painting. it might be mold release agents , skin oils , static electricity or dust and dirt preventing proper adhesion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenshirt Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I use Humbrol Acrylics, Hu29 with Hu116. Both airbrush a bit light but darken back to "normal" under a coat of future/klear. However this thread: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234942676-humbrol-dark-earth-hu29/ indicates Hu29 may have changed, but my screw top pot from 3 months ago seems the same shade as always. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Xtracrylics are a bit more delicate than other paints, but I've never had serious issues of paint flaking if using a coat of tamiya primer before. In any case, my favourite acrylics for this scheme at the moment are: Dark gren: Vallejo 888 olive grey from the standard range Dark earth: lifecolor LC-UA092 Vallejo paints are still a bit delicate (less than xtracrilix though), the lifecolors are IMHO quite tough, so I paint the dark earth first. None of them changes tone under a coat of gloss clear. Edited July 9, 2013 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 Cheers guys. The primer is holding well, so I don't think it's surface grease, the paint is pulling away from the primer. Thanks for the further ideas, I'll some some experimenting with different ones to see what I prefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Cheers guys. The primer is holding well, so I don't think it's surface grease, the paint is pulling away from the primer. Thanks for the further ideas, I'll some some experimenting with different ones to see what I prefer I used to have similar problems with Xtracrylic . I discovered I was putting it on too 'wet' initially and putting down too many coats , which didn't allow the first coat to dry. I now spray it fairly neat on highish pressure and give a coat of misted paint. Let it dry and then apply again.. I've recently been using Humbrol grey primer and it works fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Cheers guys. The primer is holding well, so I don't think it's surface grease, the paint is pulling away from the primer. Thanks for the further ideas, I'll some some experimenting with different ones to see what I prefer Do you have any accelerator for CA glue, Sir? They sell a generic brand of this at my local hobby shop. I accidentally discovered that the stuff dissolves the adhesive on tape, so that it lifts off like so much wet newspaper. It does not harm acrylic paints, at least those of the PollyScale Model Master sort. The only lift problem I get still is where paint might lap over the edge of the tape, and before removal I run a knife along the edge to prevent this. Put the stuff on liberally, wait a couple of minutes, and you should get a good result, with paper-back tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) I use Tamiya XF-52 for Dark Earth (it's close but not exact) and XF-81 for Dark Green (it's about perfectly matched). If you are having adhesion issues, I'd look into primer options first, a solid primer coat will solve most adhesion issues with acrylics. Personally, I tend to use Tamiya XF-19 as a primer, generally when I'm using Vallejo Model Color or Model Air paints, which I find to have very poor adhesion. As to the effects of gloss coats, I don't find much shift which isn't counteracted by the following flat coat. That's because Model Color is not designed for use on plastic and does have very poor adhesion on it. Model Air on the other hand is design for use on plastic and I've found as long as the plastic is clean that it grips very well. I've also found Xtracrylix to grip quite well also, but of course they still don't grip like an enamel so I usually have an enamel base coat for the main paint scheme just to be on the safe side. Edited July 10, 2013 by Tbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zen Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 IMHO Tamiya XF-52 is a VERY BAD match for Dark Earth. Avoid. It has a rather unnatural reddness to it that looks terrible when building an early WW2 UK plane - I learned the hard way once and decided to repaint. If you don't believe me, look at the stock pictures of the Tamiya Spitfire Mk I in 1/72 scale which is presumably painted with Tamiya paints. Looks... wrong. http://images.productwiki.com/upload/images/tamiya_1_72_supermarine_spitfire_mk_1-400-400.jpg For acrylics, I find that Gunze H72 is picture perfect. Just the right amount of brown/red to look right (Xtracrylix seems too brown and dark). Vallejo may also be accurate but I can't vouch for it. For Dark Earth however, Gunze H73 is a bit too olive looking. However, Tamiya's newer XF-81 is spot on. Xtracrylix is also too dark. Haven't seen Vallejo but they tend to be quite accurate. Both Tamiya and Gunze can be sprayed without primer, although I'd still recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Great advice to follow up on guys. Bill, you could be on to something there, I do apply it rather quickly. This patience thing really does get in the way of modelling Old man (it just doesn't seem right calling you that !!), sounds like something to try.....on a scrap model of course !! Master Zen, thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zen Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Btw, having tried many combinations of acrylics for WW2 RAF planes, this is my personal view on which are best: Dark Earth: Gunze H72 / Avoid Tamiya XF-52 (too red) Dark Green: Tamiya XF-81 / Avoid Gunze H73 (too olive) Sky: Gunze H74 Middle Stone: Gunze H71 Azure Blue: Xtracylix (pretty much only option that I know of) Ocean Grey: Xtracrylix / Avoid Tamiya XF-82 (too blue!) .... Tamiya XF-63 is a better substitute than XF-82 Medium Sea Grey: Tamiya XF-83 Interior Grey-Green: Humbrol 78 I presume that Humbrol may also make pretty accurate versions of UK colors in acrylic but I have not used them aside from the interior green. I also think they are a bit of a pain to spray, hence why I avoid them except in areas where airbrush accuracy is not an issue, like interiors. Edited July 10, 2013 by Master Zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Xtracrylics DarK Earth: I've had this come out very dark after "ordinary" levels of stirring. For some reason it needs to be stirred and stirred and stirred and stirred. Dremel and bent paper clip, ideally, making absolutely suref that everything's been lifted off the very bottom of the bottle. Only then for me did it come out the right colour, but it was lovely when I stirred it properly. Edited July 11, 2013 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Xtracrylics DarK Earth: I've had this come out very dark after "ordinary" levels of stirring. For some reason it needs to be stirred and stirred and stirred and stirred. Dremel and bent paper clip, ideally, making absolutely suref that everything's been lifted off the very bottom of the bottle. Only then for me did it come out the right colour, but it was lovely when I stirred it properly. I've always added some white to tone it down, but I've only ever shook it. Could be why ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWP Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 LifeColor have recently released a 3-paint "Battle of Britain" boxed set -- Dark Earth, Dark Green, & Sky. I can't comment on the colour fidelity (I have nothing to compare them to) but to my completely inexpert eyes they don't look completely wrong in the jars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I know nothing about colour matches but may be able to help anyway... Acrylic paint 'shrinks' slightly as it dries due to the loss of volume as solvents react away. This means that a slight tear will tend to propagate along the model, two such tears will result in a piece peeling away. In car body work we use low tack tape on acrylic car paint that's usually blue in colour. Depending on what we've done we'll use a scapel blade run lightly along the edge of the tape to prevent lifting. If you doubt the shrinkage just spray onto paper or thin film and watch, it should try and curl up. The yellow Tamiya tape is pretty good but avoid the pale beige stuff as that's no good for acrylics at all. (Despite, apparently, Halfords claims to the contrary). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Just ordered some Gunze H71/72 and Tamiya XF-81 so I'll see how these go, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Here's another vote for Gunze H72. I also agree that H73 is a bit too olive; so I post fade it with H309 (FS34079) thinned way down. I like the effect. Cheers, Bill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christer A Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Sorry for the thread necromancy but I found it interesting enough to share it: In my attempts to find a suitable paint for Dupont 71-009 I happened to try out some paints on a pair of Tomahawk wings Top left, Xtracrylix Dark Earth Top right Gunze H72 Dark Earth Bottom left Gunze H310 FS30219 (as a candidate for Dupont 71-009) Bottom right Tamiya XF-59 + XF 52 (as above) The verdict higher up in the thread seems to be that Gunze H72 is the best match for RAF Dark Earth in WWII, and that Xtracrylix is far too dark. I can only agree! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 I stopped using xtracrylics for that reason. Xtracolour was great, but the acrylics were far to dark for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tail-Dragon Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) I matched Tamiya acrylics to the paint chips in "British Aviation Colours of WW2" and came up with the following mix for Dark Earth. Tamiya XF-49 - 4 parts, XF-52 - 1 part, with XF-81 for the Dark Green        A is Tamiya XF-52 Flat Earth B is Gunzie H72 Dark Earth C is Tamiya custom mix that appeared in Hyperscale, of 1:XF-72, 1:XF-49, 1:XF-55 D is my mix of Tamiya 4:XF-49 Khaki and 1:XF-52 Flat Earth  (lower, darker version is under a coat of Future)   To my mind, it has a good balance with the Dark Green, and definitely doesn't have that red hue that Tamiya's Dark Earth has.  Colin Edited April 16, 2017 by Tail-Dragon Added Hurricane photo 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpasenelli Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I have used Tamiya for dark earth straight and it is just too red in my opinion. I am going to try the Gunze and may try the custom mixing option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 This is my Airfix 1/72 Spitfire I did with hand brushed Xtracrylics.   I was quite happy with it, but must admit that I've never put paints up against an official paint chip.  Taken in daylight it does appear darker than Colin's Hurricane.  Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 OK - so what about Dark Green? I have always used humbrol 30 in rattle cans & liked the result. But I've just got my first airbrush & bought a load of Vallejo Model Air paints. The Dark Green - 71.324 BS Dark Green is "very dark".  So I guess the question I'm asking is - is the humbrol too light or the Vallejo too dark??? There is another Dark Green - 71.012 - is this more similar to humbrol???  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now