CAF/RCAF CF-18 history in 1/72

[-Neu-]

Oh one other question. I've got two microscale decal sets that I want to use... one is for the 410 Squadron aircraft. ITs about 20 if not 25 years old. They look great, but I'm wondering if they will hold up to being applied. Anybody else have any experience with them?

[ALF18]

Neu

It's hard to tell from those pics, but I am unsure about the look of the pilot's helmet. The JHMCS helmet is very pronounced; that pilot looks like he has an ordinary visor to me (but the pics are fuzzy, and I can't really see the shape clearly).

I have no direct experience with old Microscale decals, but any old decals should be treated with liquid decal film first.

ALF

[-Neu-]

I think the helmet looks roughly right. Its very large and pronounced compared to the "normal" pilots in the kit.

Quick question. I got a CF-18 decal set from another microscale set. The aircraft is 188712, from 409 squadron. I can't find any photos of the aircraft, or when the aircraft wore the scheme. Any thoughts?

[ALF18]

I think the helmet looks roughly right. Its very large and pronounced compared to the "normal" pilots in the kit.

Quick question. I got a CF-18 decal set from another microscale set. The aircraft is 188712, from 409 squadron. I can't find any photos of the aircraft, or when the aircraft wore the scheme. Any thoughts?

Neu

Not quite sure I understand the question, but I'll take a stab at it. If the set has 712 and 409, it should be possible to tell what era from the CANADA (large) decals. Are they the newer FIP (i.e. Canada Post style), or the symmetrical (all caps CANADA) style?

Tail number 712 was delivered early on to the Air Force, so it was likely initially assigned to either 410 Squadron (the OTU), or maybe 425 Squadron in Bagotville. I know for sure 425 had 711 and 716, and at the time squadrons were formed, they often had a consecutive sequence of numbers (for example, 433 formed with 783 through 792 plus 912; 441 formed with 771 through 782 plus a dual; etc). Therefore, I think in early service it would not have been 409's aircraft.

In Europe, I don't think we had such early tail numbers. So it is not likely when 409 was in Baden.

The aircraft started to be shared around in the early 90s, as the older ones became a maintenance burden, and to spread the capabilities (some had limitations on weapons carriage, depending on the Lot number). That's when it would have been quite possible for an early tail number like 712 to end up on a squadron in Cold Lake (which would have been 441 or 416 at the time). When 409 was formed from 441 and 416, and before the ECP 583 upgrades, 712 could well have been on strength with 409 in Cold Lake.

I also highly doubt that 712 was upgraded with ECP 583. Early tail numbers had structural differences with later Lot numbers, making them prone to being retired for fatigue life expectancy being quite low; my guess is that 712 was not upgraded.

Based on all of this, I would wager (if I were a betting man, which I'm not) that 712 wore 409 colours in Cold Lake, just prior to the ECP 583 upgrades, and would likely have been retired and not upgraded.

ALF

[-Neu-]

Yeah, sorry Alf... I wanted to know about its history. Its got the older CANADA symmetrical markings.

Onto the building. A bit of a frustrating night. the first hasegawa kit required a lot of reworking. This was it after I finished the flap covers.

Then I mounted it on my new toy.... a Gunze clip stands.

Then hit it with Mr Surfacer thinned.

I had some issues so I cleaned it up. Then I added the area beside the flap on the fuselage with some corrugated evergreen. Crappy photo, sorry.

Anyway, this is the academy and Hasegawa kits almost ready to go.

More tomorrow night.

Thanks for looking.

[-Neu-]

A quickie one photo... attached the canopy, masked it, painted it black on top (to give the appearance that its black on the inside) then did a bit of pre-shading.

The one on the left will have relatively little wear and tear... it will be one of the first CF-18s delivered to 410 squadron in 1984 to Cold Lake. It holds a bit of significance for me. The one on the right will be made up as one of the Hornets participating in Op Mobile over Libya; Kinda like the bookends on the CF-18's service.

Edited July 8, 2013 by -Neu-

[wellzy]

Hi Bud your build coming on very nice keep up the good work

Les

[-Neu-]

Thanks Les.

Another mini-update. The end of the tunnel for these two look close.

I should gloss coat it tomorrow and start decalling by the weekend. The next two I'm trying to figure out how to do the flap drops at an even more extreme angle, as would be realistic in the field.

Thanks for looking!

[-Neu-]

So its been a little while. I have to be honest I got a bit burned out last week in addition to being really busy. Well burned out isn't really the word... maybe discouraged. I didn't like how there was only a minimum deflection on the flaps and how I didn't attempt a leading edge drop or on the horizontal stabs either. So I tried preparing to do on CF-18 #3... and this is where I finished with it last night:

However in a way this is a learning experience. The first two aircraft are like block 1 1/72 CF-18s. The one above will be block II, and the next one either #4 or #5 will have everything: full flaps, leading wing extensions droop, and stabs. Its also the one that will be a gift, so that will be fine.

Next up I started decalling the #1: a 410 squadron aircraft from 1985ish. For this one I'm using an old microscale sheet (72-457) that looks really good... surprising for its day. Unfortunately I'll also have to raid the Canucks model sheet for some parts.

The biggest problem is that cougar head is too large. I'll take the one from the Canuck model set (the one on the top)

In the process of researching for this build I realized that I've seen this aircraft (188704) before. Its was flown by Capt. Wally Niemi in an ill fated training mission. The aircraft was the twelfth delivered to the CAF in August 1983 and was immediately sent to Cold Lake Alberta to train new pilots.

Niemi was a talented pilot, who had previously flown CF-104s, and was the low level flight instructor for 410 squadron. On January 11th 1989, the captain was participating in a low level training exercise in northern alberta, following below a C-130. Although Niemi had set a radar altimeter warning, he ignored it, and subsequently crashed into a frozen lake, killing himself. It was a shocking death within the community... underscoring the risks of low level flight. I find it slightly auspicious that this decal set had this aircraft in it. Anyways, nothing that special to show, just a few in progress decal photos.

Next photos of this model should have it completed.

Edited July 22, 2013 by -Neu-

[ALF18]

Don't get too discouraged, Neu! This scale is tough to do things correctly in.

The huge Cougar head was actually present on some 410 aircraft, but maybe not on this one.

Wally Niemi crashed while doing some manoeuvres with the Herc; I am not 100% certain, but I think it was some air to air strafing (gunnery) that he was trying. It is very difficult to gun a low level target, especially with the Vulcan Cannon being angled up by 2 degrees, meaning that against a level target you must have your nose low, or be below him. He apparently pressed one attack just a bit too far, and the result was fatal.

ALF

[-Neu-]

Don't get too discouraged, Neu! This scale is tough to do things correctly in.

The huge Cougar head was actually present on some 410 aircraft, but maybe not on this one.

Wally Niemi crashed while doing some manoeuvres with the Herc; I am not 100% certain, but I think it was some air to air strafing (gunnery) that he was trying. It is very difficult to gun a low level target, especially with the Vulcan Cannon being angled up by 2 degrees, meaning that against a level target you must have your nose low, or be below him. He apparently pressed one attack just a bit too far, and the result was fatal.

ALF

Thanks for the encouragement! My issue is really with how to do the flaps accurately so that there is a bit of separation. It looks so easy in 48, and nearly impossible in 72nd. I think I'll need to make a metal part for it, which isn't that easy. So I keep going over the two.

Thanks for the information on Niemi... I had some of the info handy, but not all of it.

[DavidWinter]

Hi Neu.

Thanks for using my decals on this project. I hope you don't mind if I chime in with a couple of notes.

The Microscale sheet has the wrong leaf in the roundel. They have the silver leaf inside the roundel and on the flag which is incorrect for the symmetrical era markings. Symmetrical era markings used the 'new style' leaf as seen in my decal set. Unfortunately you've already used this on your build so I'm not sure how you'd correct that now.

The Cougar head on their sheet is accurate for early 410 Sqn birds with the early style -A tails with the short ECM fairings. Something around a year after Canada received the CF-18, the ECM fairings were lengthened to what we have now and this required the reduction in size of the tail crests. Your kit has the long ECM's so you'd need the smaller Cougar head from my decal sheet.

thanks again for using my decals on this project. Can't wait to see the final builds.

thanks

David

[wellzy]

Looking very good nice job

Les

[-Neu-]

Thanks for the encouragement Wellzy! It's really appreciated as this project has progressed.

David:

Its my pleasure using your decals. I have to be honest, one of the reasons I initially joined this GB is because I had all these decals to use in my stash. However I realized that to build some of the things I wanted I had to get more, and yours was the obvious choice.

Removing the decals isn't hard... you mess up enough times like I do and you learn a few tricks. However I don't really have a set of replacement ones so I'm just going to go with what I have. As I said above, I'm now kinda viewing this one as a practice for the final three kits.

That being said, thank you for popping in here with your expertise... the relationship between the tails and markings is one that I didn't know and its really helpful. It makes sense because I was looking at the TF-18 kit (#4) and it makes sense now why it has a nearly featureless tail. Between you and ALF, I've learned quite a bit.

More later tonight... I have a few nights to get some work accomplished.

Edited July 23, 2013 by -Neu-

[Barneydhc82]

Richard: I may have some 1:72 scale Hornet decals..with the correct Leaf on the roundels...I'll go have a look in the giant spares box

Barney

[DavidWinter]

I have some spare 1:72 sets that were misprints but the top wing roundels are perfectly fine. If you're interested, let me know and I'll throw a set in the mail to you.

thanks

David

[arnobiz]

Nice job, and much faster than I will ever do

Answering your question about dropping the flaps (With much delay): You can replicate this effect by cutting out the flaps but the problem is that the assembly will then be pretty fragile. For this reason I prefer to just cut the sides, do a few passes on the hinge with a scalpel to weaken it, fold it to the desired position and when happy with the angle apply some liquid cement in the hinge groove to remelt the weakened plastic, thus strengthening it (Turning it back from white to grey in layman's terms ).

Hope this helps,

Arnaud

[-Neu-]

Richard: I may have some 1:72 scale Hornet decals..with the correct Leaf on the roundels...I'll go have a look in the giant spares box

Barney

That might be the easiest solution.

I have some spare 1:72 sets that were misprints but the top wing roundels are perfectly fine. If you're interested, let me know and I'll throw a set in the mail to you.

thanks

David

That's very gracious of you. I do have a second microscale set (409 squadron I think) that has the same insignia... so if you don't mind I would like one of them. I will also pick up one of your -104 and maybe -101 sets in the next few months.

Nice job, and much faster than I will ever do

Answering your question about dropping the flaps (With much delay): You can replicate this effect by cutting out the flaps but the problem is that the assembly will then be pretty fragile. For this reason I prefer to just cut the sides, do a few passes on the hinge with a scalpel to weaken it, fold it to the desired position and when happy with the angle apply some liquid cement in the hinge groove to remelt the weakened plastic, thus strengthening it (Turning it back from white to grey in layman's terms ).

Hope this helps,

Arnaud

Hmmm, are you talking about the actuator hinge or just the flaps themselves? If you could do the hinge, that would make sense... I'm trying to accomplish the spaced effect;

Its kinda sucky that every single 1/72nd wing is the flaps up variety. I wonder if wolfpack (or whatever their name is) are making a killing off of their resin wings.

Nevertheless, thank you Arnaud. I appreciate the tip.

[arnobiz]

That's what I meant, if you want the spaced effect you can do it by cutting off the flap and re#gluing it onto the modified hinge but then it's going to be pretty fragile which why I don't do it. Another (better) reason is that in 1/72 the space is actually tiny, close to invisible, see here:

I hope this convinces you to keep it simple

Arnaud

[-Neu-]

Ahhh, I see. Alright.... you've convinced me. I think with rounding the upper forward edge of the flap most of the same effect can be replicated so I'll go with that. Thanks for this Arnaud.

I don't have any photos to show right now... I spent most of last night preparing #3 and #4's control surfaces droop, and waiting to get some new decals for #1. Really it wouldn't show anything you haven't already seen in triplicate.

[arnobiz]

I think with rounding the upper forward edge of the flap most of the same effect can be replicated so I'll go with that. Thanks for this Arnaud.

You're welcome. The edge rounding is exactly what I do and it works like a charm

Arnaud

[-Neu-]

Alright... its been awhile. But I've been busy.

So first off I tried what Arnaud suggested on build 3.

And this is the flap angles.

Looks okay. Not great however. Maybe #4 will be better.

So thanks to Dave Winter I got some extra misprint sheets. I immediately put them to work. I was going to use the hasegawa decals for slime lights but the canuck decals ones were far better.

I think you can tell which one is which.

Anyway I started to weather the aircraft. I used a mix of oil wash and tamiya weathering pastels.

Then I added an alclad flat coat, some more details and this is where it is today. Its not 100% done. The tailhook isn't there and I haven't filled the identification light with future to finish it off. I'll need to weather the centerline tank a bit as well as the M-61 gun. Also it was late in the day so the lighting wasn't very good.

I chose a training confguration of what I think is an ACMI and DCMI missile, as well as a centerline tank (ah the good ole days) that probably would have been seen on a 410 bird in the 1980s.

I'll have to add some oil wash to the gun panels. One of the cool things is that I replaced the painted buckles with brass ones from Barney.... They look 100X better. I also had some spare photo etch mirrors from the last fujimi D model, which I added to the canopy.

And one last one...

More hopefully tomorrow.... I'd love to get a move on #2.

Thanks for looking and all your help with this kit.

[Barneydhc82]

Richard: The models look great.

Barney

[wellzy]

Real nice job well done

Les

[Jabba]

Very nice indeed.