Hey Flankerman - Gots a MiG-29 question for ya...

[Jennings Heilig]

Do you know if the very early Fulcrums that went to Rissala, Finland in 1986 had the same grey-green camo that we normally associate with the Fulcrum?? The few color pics I've found online (caveat!!) appear to show the darker color as more grey than the later grey-green.

Any ideas?

Edit: I ask because I just found out that the MiG-29 on display at the National Museum of the USAF is actually "08" blue that went to Rissala in July '86! It was among the Fulcrums (Fulcra?) that came to the US from Moldova, some of which were nuke capable, in order to prevent them from getting into the "wrong" hands. When the USAFM folks started sanding down the Moldovan camo, they found the old blue "08" underneath, and were able to correlate the serial to the ones that went to Finland.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jennings Heilig

[Scooby]

Wow, I had often wondered where that Mig-29 came from. So it was one of those famed group of Mig-29s.

I always read the history of the aircraft at the NMUSAF. They don't always do a great job of the history of the aircraft on display. Some info is void.

[Flankerman]

Jennings,

I haven't a clue - sorry.......

You need to find someone called 'Fulcrum-man'

I know there's a Floggerman, plus me, Flankerman ..... but I don't think we yet have a Fulcrum-man ????

Anyone care to step up ???

Kyen

[Jennings Heilig]

Maybe we need to (wait for it) lever someone into accepting the role? Perhaps we could just call him Archimedes?

[Linden Hill]

The MiG-29s which visited Rissala in 1986 came from the 234th. GvIAP at Kubinka. 'Blue 08', and the rest of the delegation, carried the standard Grey/Grey-Green scheme. There is a very nice photo of 08 in Anton Pavlov's book on the 9-12. Thorough archivist that he is, he also lists the pilot of 'Blue 08' on the Finnish trip as Anatoly Arestov.

All Moldova's MiG-29s were inherited from the USSR's 86th GvIAP, Black Sea Naval Aviation (Marculesti AB), which converted to the MiG-29 shortly after the 234th.

I was under the impression that Kubinka's 29s, including 'Blue 08', were repainted and formed the original iteration of the Swifts (Strizhi).

Edited May 15, 2013 by Linden Hill

[Jennings Heilig]

The archivist at NMUSAF is 100% positive of the provenance of their aircraft. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!

Thanks for the color info.

Edit: Here's the email I got from the curator at NMUSAF:

Dear Mr. Heilig

Thank you for your interest in the Museum's aircraft. The NMUSAF MiG-29 is
an early Fulcrum A (Article 9.12), serial number 2960516761, and it
definitely flew at Kuopio-Rissala, Finland, in July 1986.

The aircraft came to us with no provenance information, other than that it
came from the Moldovan Air Force. Careful sanding through the layers of
paint on the aircraft by our restoration staff revealed a yellow 25 painted
on by the Moldavans, and underneath it, a blue 08 (which we determined was
painted on by the Soviets)--see attached photograph DSC 0018 showing the
outline after sanding and DSC 0017 with the number overlaid using Photoshop.
I contacted the individual who was the Finnish Air Force NCO in charge of
photography at that base in 1986, and his photographs (see one attached),
along with those found in defense publications at the time, provided
excellent visual sources to compare against the existing markings on the
aircraft here.

While there may have been other MiG-29s with a blue 08 bort number, there
were two factors that made it conclusively the one at Rissala. First, bort
numbers were not always applied in exactly the same size, location, and with
the same spacing between numbers (often even differing on either side of the
same aircraft)--the ones evident on the Museum's MiG-29 match those in the
photos of the Rissala MiG-29 exactly. Second, the aircraft at Rissala was
an early production MiG-29 (as evidenced by the blast port for the
cannon)--the Museum's MiG-29 is an early production aircraft (although it
has been modified since then, e.g.-rudders, nose cone, etc., it still
retains the early style blast port).

It is completely by chance that the Museum ended up receiving such a
historically important MiG-29, and we were most delighted when the study of
the artifact revealed its interesting provenance!


Sincerely

Jeff Duford
Curator
National Museum of the US Air Force

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jennings Heilig

[boom175]

Thanks Jennings for bringing that historical tidbit to light! The 9-13 at the Threat Training facility at Nellis AFB I think is from Kubinka as well. They have a little fact sheet on the wall next to the A/C showing the restoration of the A/C from the Moldavian colors. The "hook" on the story was the discovery of the Guards badge and the heritage of the badge to the Great Patriotic War. Neat history

[Jennings Heilig]

A good friend of mine was instrumental in getting those birds to the US from Moldova when he worked at NAIC (National Air Intelligence Center). He and another NAIC guy volunteered their time to completely sand down the UB to obtain the underlying camouflage pattern edges so she could be repainted in her original Soviet Frontal Aviation colors for display in front of NAIC headquarters at Wright-Patterson AFB, where you can see her today.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jennings Heilig

[Linden Hill]

The construction number 2960516761 tallies with Pavlov's archive as one of the Moldovan 9-12s sold to the US. He has the the former bort (VVS, not Moldovan) down as 'White 25' (86th GvIAP), and prior to that 'Dark Blue 08'. Furthermore , he has the aircraft down as coming from the 16th production series in October 1985.

Reading more about the 234th GvIAP's first MiG-29s, it appears that a number of them were overhauled at Kubinka (121st ARZ) in 1990. It's therefore probable that 'Blue 08' was redeployed to Moldavia (as it was then) and renumbered at this stage. The photographs of 'Blue 08' in Finland show the early style shorter rudder chord (but no ventral fins). No doubt the rudders would have been extended during overhaul in 1990, probably with a scabbed on section rather than a replacement rudder. That would be the clincher if the Nellis exhibit had the reworked early style rudders.

[Procopius]

A good friend of mine was instrumental in getting those birds to the US from Moldova when he worked at NAIC (National Air Intelligence Center). He and another NAIC guy volunteered their time to completely sand down the UB to obtain the underlying camouflage pattern edges so she could be repainted in her original Soviet Frontal Aviation colors for display in front of NAIC headquarters at Wright-Patterson AFB, where you can see her today.

Whoa, that looks eerily like the IIAF/IRIAF "Asia Minor" scheme for their F-4s and F-5s.

[Jennings Heilig]

That's the scheme the USSR used on a number of early MiG-29s. There's a photo of one in one of my early refs on the Fulcrum taken at Mosairshow (or whatever it was called) in 1992, a Fulcrum C, in this exact scheme. It's sort of a hybrid between USAF SEA and Asia Minor.

[Panoz]

And here's the photo of the camouflaged MiG-29 at Mosaeroshow 1992 from WAPJ 14:

[Linden Hill]

If I'm not mistaken, this was one of the ex-115th GvIAP Gromov Institute 9-13s which were repainted in the imperial blue, yellow and black scheme, and were destined never to return from Fairford in 1993. I was a spectator that day. The solo flat display in pouring rain early in the day was spectacular. The duo performance in the afternoon, not so much...

[Jennings Heilig]

Oh, I'd say that afternoon performance was pretty dang spectacular! Not that often you get to see a K-36 in action

[McYellowbelly]

Oh, I'd say that afternoon performance was pretty dang spectacular! Not that often you get to see a K-36 in action

Was there too..eerie, but spectacular!

Still got my photo of a Mig in a flat spin, debris and a pilot on his chute.....all before digital photography!

Had to wait a few days to see if I got the shot!

[pervis]

Whoa, that looks eerily like the IIAF/IRIAF "Asia Minor" scheme for their F-4s and F-5s.

No .IRIAF MIG-29 is blue sky scheme .

http://s7.picofile.com/file/8265792168/33_2.png

http://s6.picofile.com/file/8265792234/caracal_48019_p.jpg

Edited August 31, 2016 by pervis

[Phantom726]

IIRC correctly there are quite a few photos from the 1986 visit to Finland in the book "MiG-29 Superfighter" by Jon Lake. I don't have the book at hand, though.