Hawker Typhoon question

[murfv]

Would any one know it the colour scheme featured in the Academy 1/72 Typhoon Ib(HH-A, MN582 of

175 Squadron, August 1944)is accurate for a rocket armed/3 blade prop/small tailplane aircraft as provided for in the kit?

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10113135t2/60/2

Also can any one tell me if the wing tip navigation lights on Typhoons had a clear lense with a coloured bulb or had coloured (red/green) lenses?

Thanks for any input.

[Chris Thomas]

Would any one know it the colour scheme featured in the Academy 1/72 Typhoon Ib(HH-A, MN582 of

175 Squadron, August 1944)is accurate for a rocket armed/3 blade prop/small tailplane aircraft as provided for in the kit?

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10113135t2/60/2

Also can any one tell me if the wing tip navigation lights on Typhoons had a clear lense with a coloured bulb or had coloured (red/green) lenses?

Thanks for any input.

MN582 was one of the Typhoons built with a large tailplane but fitted with a 3-blader as problems with the 4-blader had delayed availability. So, strictly speaking, the kit markings are not appropriate unless you fit the larger tailplane.

Typhoon wingtip lights had coloured bulbs with clear perspex covers.

Chris

[murfv]

Thanks for the quick reply Chris, much appricated.

So does any one know where I could find a profile or picture of accurate markings for a

small tailplane/bubble canopy/3 blade prop/invasion striped Typhoon Ib with rockets for a oob of the academy kit?

On a related note, which 4 blade Typhoon prop is the more accurate, Academy(left) or the new Airfix one(right)?

[Test Graham]

I'd have thought you stood a good chance in the volumes of 2nd TAF, written by Shores and Thomas?

[gingerbob]

On a related note, which 4 blade Typhoon prop is the more accurate, Academy(left) or the new Airfix one(right)?

Well, I can tell you which one's hub looks more accurate!

[Harry Lime]

The new Airfix one by a wide country mile! The shape when compared to the numerous pics in both Osprey books and the Valiant Wings book makes the Academy one look like a caricature.

Mark.

[ben_m]

Two aircraft that match your description, with full d-day stripes, are MN253 XP-U in June 1944 and MN131 PR-M in June 1944.

MN253 can be seen in this photo. Sky spinner, stripes covering most of the serial on tail, stripes painted around the original 'U' individual code letter

MN131 had the 'M' of PR-M before the squadron codes, applied in non-standard sizing and in white, in line with the cockpit opening, as the invasion stripes had been painted over the letter in its normal position. Also a small white M on the tail above the fin flash. Black spinner, serial mostly obscured by stripes.

Edit: see profiles from pages 128 and 130 of 2nd Tactical Air Force Volume 1, Shores and Thomas.

Edited April 25, 2013 by ben_m

[Chris Thomas]

Thanks for the plug Graham! Although Vols 1 and 2 are long sold out and fetching (or at least being offered at) silly prices.

Photos of fully striped Typhoons are not exactly thick on the ground and many are large-tailplane aircraft. However Vol 1 has PR-M MN131, TP-D MN293 and XP-U MN253. There are also press photos which have appeared elsewhere and show TP-N MN195 which has interesting markings - TP on the fin and forward fuselage, N inside the u/c doors - also a non standard glossy (dark) spinner, colour not know.

If you can't lay your hands on a copy drop me a PM.

The Airfix prop wins hands down.

Chris

[murfv]

Thanks for all the info gents, your time and knowledge is greatly appricated.

After all that , I think that I will be finishing my Academy Typhoon as MN253 XP-U of 174 squadron,

I just have to decide on which aircraft I will finish the airfix kit as

Cheers again

[Kari Lumppio]

MN582 was one of the Typhoons built with a large tailplane but fitted with a 3-blader as problems with the 4-blader had delayed availability. So, strictly speaking, the kit markings are not appropriate unless you fit the larger tailplane.

....

Hello Chris!

I just cannot pass this occasion to ask my question. Typhoon MN358 flown by Erik Haabjoern. It did have 3-blader but how about the tailplanes? I already did chop the Academy small tailplanes in my attempt to make larger tailplanes out of them. I ended up buying a Tempest and making resin copies. And then bought your book "Typhoon WIngs of 2nd TAF 1943-45" and saw the photo at page 29 - three blade propeller (instead of the expected four blades) and though it has small tailplanes and no such for my model any more... One of my myriad stalled projects. So if it did have large tailplanes after all the kit would be still good to go for Haabjoern's mount.

Cheers,

Kari

Edited April 26, 2013 by Kari Lumppio

[Chris Thomas]

Hello Chris!

I just cannot pass this occasion to ask my question. Typhoon MN358 flown by Erik Haabjoern. It did have 3-blader but how about the tailplanes? I already did chop the Academy small tailplanes in my attempt to make larger tailplanes out of them. I ended up buying a Tempest and making resin copies. And then bought your book "Typhoon WIngs of 2nd TAF 1943-45" and saw the photo at page 29 - three blade propeller (instead of the expected four blades) and though it has small tailplanes and no such for my model any more... One of my myriad stalled projects. So if it did have large tailplanes after all the kit would be still good to go for Haabjoern's mount.

Cheers,

Kari

Back to the workbench Kari! MN358 was in the batch (between MN309 and around MN600) which had large tailplanes but (mostly) 3-blade props. This was due to the short supply of serviceable 4-bladers (oil seal problems).

By coincidence, I have just had sight of a spotter's notebook from 1944 which included Hurn visits. He logged 'E-H' although without a serial, so it may be one of his earlier Typhoons (which ended up in the Channel). However it does suggest that he displayed his initials split by the roundel, rather than to one side, especially as the spotter also recorded R-D MN518 in similar fashion and photos show these letters separated by the roundel.

In the photo you quote, I detect some sort of spinner decoration - possibly a ring or spiral? I'll have a closer look tomorrow!

Chris

[JosephLalor]

Thanks for the plug Graham! Although Vols 1 and 2 are long sold out and fetching (or at least being offered at) silly prices.

Photos of fully striped Typhoons are not exactly thick on the ground and many are large-tailplane aircraft. However Vol 1 has PR-M MN131, TP-D MN293 and XP-U MN253. There are also press photos which have appeared elsewhere and show TP-N MN195 which has interesting markings - TP on the fin and forward fuselage, N inside the u/c doors - also a non standard glossy (dark) spinner, colour not know.

If you can't lay your hands on a copy drop me a PM.

The Airfix prop wins hands down.

Chris

Hi Chris,

What's your view on the three blade propeller in the Academy Typhoon? My feeling is that the propeller blades in the Academy Typhoon and Tempest kits are oversize in chord.

Thanks,

Joseph

[Chris Thomas]

What's your view on the three blade propeller in the Academy Typhoon? My feeling is that the propeller blades in the Academy Typhoon and Tempest kits are oversize in chord.

Thanks,

Joseph

To be honest Joseph I find it very difficult to be prescriptive about propeller blade as they are complex shapes. Plans being 2-dimensional only tell part of the story and when viewed from slightly different angles the profile changes. There is a distinct 'twist which is usually missed.

However, for what it is worth, I think Academy 3-blader is too narrow at the root and the Tempest 4-blader is also too narrow nearing the root but too broad towards the tip.

Chris

[Chris Thomas]

Back to the workbench Kari! MN358 was in the batch (between MN309 and around MN600) which had large tailplanes but (mostly) 3-blade props. This was due to the short supply of serviceable 4-bladers (oil seal problems).

By coincidence, I have just had sight of a spotter's notebook from 1944 which included Hurn visits. He logged 'E-H' although without a serial, so it may be one of his earlier Typhoons (which ended up in the Channel). However it does suggest that he displayed his initials split by the roundel, rather than to one side, especially as the spotter also recorded R-D MN518 in similar fashion and photos show these letters separated by the roundel.

In the photo you quote, I detect some sort of spinner decoration - possibly a ring or spiral? I'll have a closer look tomorrow!

Chris

Further to the above I had a closer look at the spinner on the photo of Haabjorn and his groundcrew. Boosting the 'highlights' and contrast on Photoshop clearly shows a distinct stripe around the spinner near the tip and traces of a further band (not so distinct about mid-point. Don't ask me!

Chris

[JosephLalor]

To be honest Joseph I find it very difficult to be prescriptive about propeller blade as they are complex shapes. Plans being 2-dimensional only tell part of the story and when viewed from slightly different angles the profile changes. There is a distinct 'twist which is usually missed.

However, for what it is worth, I think Academy 3-blader is too narrow at the root and the Tempest 4-blader is also too narrow nearing the root but too broad towards the tip.

Chris

I agree with you on the complexity of propeller blade shapes. What you see on a drawing is essentially a projection of the curved surface of a blade onto a plane. I tend to be a bit surprised to see blade twist not depicted by kit manufacturers. Some recent Spitfire and Spiteful kits spring to mind. That said, I probably wouldn't have been aware of it if it hadn't been for the fluid dynamics component of my Mech Eng degree and the fact that it's portrayed reasonably in many kits. I've long since forgotten why the pitch is made to decrease from hub to tip.

Joseph

Edited April 30, 2013 by JosephLalor

[gingerbob]

Why? Because the local airspeed due to rotation increases as you head toward the tip, whereas the forward airspeed remains constant, so if you do a vector triangle (hope I'm not mangling a term) it goes "flatter".

bob

Edited April 30, 2013 by gingerbob