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Vac form start-up, what would sell well?


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Chris,

I'd love to do those two, but let's start slowly first. Unless I can get Heritage interested in doing them in resin?

John, I don't intend doing military subjects, even though I'm a Spitfire lover.

Martin

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Wow! Lots of inputs into this thread. I think Schneider Racers is a fantastic, and largely unplumbed, market. The Gloster VI, Supermarine S4 etc etc.

I'm also a fan of post-war prototypes/experimentals. I think a 1/48 FD2 should sell well. You might also consider the SR53 and, if you're really feeling adventurous, the AW52 (IMHO one of the most beautiful aircraft that never succeeded). Throwing in a pic just because....

ArmstrongWhitworthA.W.52FlyingWing.jpg

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Oooh! Get thee behind me, Satans all!

I was only last night downloading prototype/research a/c pics to get an idea what I could do and that's one of them.

Kev, you pick one of very few airliners that ever took my eye. I love them! Oh dear, so little time, so MUCH to do!!

Martin

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Kev 67 that is a beautiful photo of a beautiful aeroplane. My second flight in an RAF aeroplane was to fly in the right hand seat of a Devon VP952 on extended airtest followed by single engined landings on the grass airfield at Upavon (1960). Gipsy Queens have borne me aloft in the Devon, Marathon and Rapide.

Yes my DH's are 1/48. I have revamped the Rapide patterns as an all injected kit. and I have wings started for the 90 but don't press me for times cos I might just stick the patterns together for me.

Yes there is so much to do and so little time and most of these are unproffitable.

John

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Yes they are very graceful, very sad when they retired in the early eighties, one of the longest serving aircraft at the time in the RAF I believe

If only someone would replicate the excellent 1/72 Rareplanes kit in 1/48 (Not Resin thats devils work)

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John,

I have a pattern for a Rapide in 1/32nd scale on the go, for a customer in America, so you're safe there!

And whilst I was considering DHs in 48th, I will steer clear of those you mention, but my local flying group has a resident Hornet Moth which I will go and measure as that is a particular favourite of mine. I even have an R/C one under way for when I need a break.!

It seems strange that even though an expensive resin kit the Aerotech Comet racer and Mew Gull are both inaccurate I would have thought that was unnecessary in any medium, especially resin at that price. Maybe when they are long OOP, a vac form of either in 1/32nd scale could be considered.

Martin

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If anyone has my first catalogue of 1982, listed under 1/32 scale is a vac Mew Gull and a Stampe. The Pitts Special is the only 1/32 that I completed. A friend kindly supplied my Percival works drawings but even these give rise to some problems as these a/c were so 'mucked about with' I like the Harry Robinson drawings drawings of both these subjects. I had pretty well decided that any high wing or biplane cabin subjects would have clear injected fuselages and biplanes with thin wings I'd also do injected wings in the smaller scales. I still maintain that my latest Tiger is the only accurate Tiger :0) John

Edited by John Aero
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If anyone has my first catalogue of 1982, listed under 1/32 scale is a vac Mew Gull and a Stampe. The Pitts Special is the only 1/32 that I completed. A friend kindly supplied my Percival works drawings but even these give rise to some problems as these a/c were so 'mucked about with' I like the Harry Robinson drawings drawings of both these subjects. I had pretty well decided that any high wing or biplane cabin subjects would have clear injected fuselages and biplanes with thin wings I'd also do injected wings in the smaller scales. I still maintain that my latest Tiger is the only accurate Tiger :0) John

Hi John,

Had no idea that a Mew Gull was on the stocks at one time. It's one of my favourite aircraft having seen Ron Paine in action at the Kings Cup at Baginton. Not keen on that particular version though. I did build a 1/72 vac-form Mew Gull many years back. A terrible kit as I remember but it looked OK in the end. Used your reg. decals to do Charles Gardner's blue Mew. Also used your decals to make G-ADGP Hawk Speed Six from a Frog Magister. One of them got the Tony Woollett Award and the other the Aeroclub Award! I don't build many aircraft now, mainly race cars but certain subjects would tempt me still, preferably in 1/48. Not keen on 1/32 although I've a couple of Williams kits in that scale. Aerotech stuff is just plain too expensive for me.

I've always liked Harry Robinson's drawings too. They seem to capture the aircraft well and the known dimensions look spot on. Most of the mods to the Mews seem to be related to the nose and intake configuration except for Alex Henshaws Cape racer and Percival's own racer. Henshaw's was once pretty standard though whereas Percival's was built to be different. Gardner's and later Giles Guthrie's had a more raked front cowl. Personally if you ever kitted it I'd go for a standard nose with a modified option and leave it to the builder to do any mods for another version. Lovely colour schemes on all of them!

By the way, Planet Models do a resin Leopard Moth in 1/48 which at least looks OK.

Hope someone does a decent Mew soon, preferably in 1/48!

Best regards

Dave

P. S. - Like many of the projects you've been looking at. Not keen on biplanes but only because of the rigging, ditto multi engines. Like 'em nice and simple these days, especially vac-forms.

Edited by Fastcat
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Thanks for the comments. The Mews are complex little beasts and I never liked what was done to EXF postwar. I was surprised when Des Penrose had her rebuilt with the low topdeck. I would have thought a better visibility and original cockpit height more condusive to modern flying. Planets Leopard is typical of many resins in that it is under scale and has the under nourished cowling of the original early 1940's Aeromodeller drawing. In real life there is little dimensional difference between the various Gipsy III/ Major cowls. Or as I was told by an old DH employee "Fred didn't make them all" when I questioned differences of less that an inch. We'll see what comes out of these discussions.

I was comparing the drawings of the various Mews on the lightboard tonight and if the drawings are right some were built with a rubber ruler. :0)

John

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So, which is the best one to do, if it were to be done? The one we have left, regardless of all its rebuilds or an early one from the black and white shots we have?

Also, Heritage do one in 48th scale. Although that's the current one at Breighton. With that in mind and at a reasonable price, is it worth doing another?

Martin

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"Yes there is so much to do and so little time and most of these are unproffitable."

How sad. All the wonderful aircraft types that will never be kitted because they aren't profitable. I never have been able to understand the insatiable demand for 109s, F-16s, etc, etc, etc

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Hmmm...wondered when you'd be along, Doug! :-)

There's just something about the Art Deco styling of these planes that does it for me!

They're certainly under-represented in 1/48 scale, the Noix Models resin kits are virtually extinct now, the Testors/Hawk S6B is very basic (but if you can find one can be made up quite nicely) Likewise the Curtiss.

The SMER MC.72 is rather crude, allegedly nearer 1/50 scale. Nearly finished mine, just some of the struts to finish off.

I would have thought (in my ignorance of these matters) they would be relatively easy to master, as they are very simple shapes, with little external detail.

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Or as I was told by an old DH employee "Fred didn't make them all" when I questioned differences of less that an inch. We'll see what comes out of these discussions.

I was comparing the drawings of the various Mews on the lightboard tonight and if the drawings are right some were built with a rubber ruler. :0)

John

Lovely quote!

I guess if you settled on one set of drawings, say Harry Robinson's then at least there's a consistent approach and as long as the major dimensions are close I wouldn't think there'd be complaints. I'd certainly never question them, especially if the manufacturers drawings didn't tally either.

So, which is the best one to do, if it were to be done? The one we

have left, regardless of all its rebuilds or an early one from the black

and white shots we have?

Also, Heritage do one in 48th scale. Although that's the current one

at Breighton. With that in mind and at a reasonable price, is it worth

doing another?

I was hoping you wouldn't mention the Heritage kit! I could live with the fairly basic casting because it's a nice clean shape but the kit's so inaccurate compared to any drawings I've ever seen it's hardly worth the bother. Biggest error is the wingspan which matches only with Edgar Percival's personal racer which from memory was about 2ft. shorter than all the others, ie 1/2" short in 1/48. The fuselage is also out in so many areas, particularly around the nose that it's a real chore to get anywhere near. The decals are well printed although the crest on the nose is under detailed but the reg. letters are the wrong colour being black instead of dark green. I have one which I started but didn't finish! Such a shame.

Personally I'd go for Charles Gardner's aircraft. In spite of the black & white photos, most colours are documented. His colours are quoted as blue. From memory Giles Guthrie's was red with gold trim and Tom Campbell Black's "Miss Liverpool" was black and white. These are in fact all the same aircraft, G-AEKL so with a bit of twiddling to nose and spinner any of these could be made from one kit, I think. They're fairly well shown online in the Flight Archives including sketches of interior and noses. Henshaw's early version of -EXF before the mods for the Cape Dash could also be made from the same kit I reckon. E. P.'s would need a new wing but could be cut down from the others mentioned since they're larger. Not sure if the rear fuselage was different (don't have references to hand) but remember something about the height being determined by the need to accommodate his Trilby hat which he always wore when flying! Those were the days!!

Best regards

Dave

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Thanks for all that, Dave. I'm surprised to hear about the heritage Model being so far out.

I would have to pour over those photos and Flight archives to see which has the most available info. I do like the blue one, I must admit. And it's an aircraft I've always liked, albeit in the more pronounced cockpit version.

These days it just isn't feasible to travel far to measure stuff in museums, especially if they want an arm and a leg to get in. These costs have to be considered in the final kit price or we never get them back. I can reach Flixton and Felthorpe no problem and there's an F4 Lightning up the road! But that's it. Any further and it starts to cost big time, so the good old net and books are the limit for me now.

Having a good eye helps sort the wheat from the chaff, too. I much prefer to do my own drawings for all subjects I model, but aircraft are just too far away on the whole to travel, so I now have to rely on others' better knowledge about which are the best drawings. Where might I find Harry Robinson's drawings?

Martin

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Hi Martin,

Sorry to reply so late but I've been sorting out some of my old references lest memory plays more tricks. I said earlier I'd seen -EXF at Baginton and I may well have at some time. It had a bubble canopy when I saw it and was in the red and cream post war colours. Ron Paine's aircraft which I saw in the King's Cup was of course the Hawk Speed Six and I remember it diving for the finish line as it tried to make up ground. I think it came second to a Cosmic Wind but after all these years I can't be sure.

Back to the Mew Gull. The IPMS Racing and Record Aircraft SIG did a write-up of the Heritage kit and slaughtered it. I wish I'd read it before I bought mine. Harry Robinson's drawings were used. I compared my kit to all the drawings I could find and it matched none of them. I haven't had access to John Aero's works drawings. In fairness to Heritage, I think it was one of their early kits. Later stuff is better, I believe.

Harry Robinson is a member of the SIG. I have an email address for him but I'd rather send that by PM. I have a copy of his drawings for -EXF and ZS-AHM the original reg for this aircraft, also G-AFAA, the short wing Mew of Edgar Percival. I can scan these but you'd need to check for distortion.

Here's a list of colours as far as I can check.

ZS-AHM "Die Goudstad" : white with gold trim & letters

ZS-AHO "Baragwanath" : Pillar-box red with gold trim and letters

G-AEKL "Miss Liverpool" : Tom Campbell Black, black & white. Charles Gardner, dark blue with light blue lettering and trim. Giles Guthrie, maroon or dark red with gold trim.

G-AFAA : Edgar Percival's aircraft, cream with light blue trim, the latter outlined with gold although this varied over the years

G-AEXF (ex ZS-AHM) white & dark green

G-AFAA had a unique short span wing. All the others were basically similar as far as I know, although spinners, front cowlings and exhausts need checking against photos as they were the main areas of change.

G-AEXF started fairly "standard" but was subject to many changes throughout it's life. These are well listed in Henshaw's "Flight of the Mew Gull". The Robinson drawings are also pretty good but Henshaw's book lists some of the less obvious mods, even the relief tube!

I also used British Racing and Record Breaking Aircraft by Peter Lewis which has a lot of history and colour notes.

I can email you have copies of all relevant info I have. I rather suspect that John has far more than me knowing his reputation for meticulous research!

Best regards

Dave

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Dave,

this is all remarkable research and I thank you for it and your kind offer of drawings, which I will definitely take you up on.

I have asked John privately if he intends to do the Mew Gull. I would only be doing it in vac-form versions if I did do it. And if anyone else did it, I'd scratchbuild one for me!

I was thinking a Gull, rather than a Mew Gull might be nice, if John does the Mew.

PM on its way to you and many thanks again.

Martin

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"Yes there is so much to do and so little time and most of these are unproffitable."

How sad. All the wonderful aircraft types that will never be kitted because they aren't profitable. I never have been able to understand the insatiable demand for 109s, F-16s, etc, etc, etc

Sad but as a commercial enterprise each kit has to support and fund the next one. I wonder if there was a head count how many people would actually buy for instance a 1/48 vac kit of an Auster J5 Autocrat or a Messenger. I did a Messenger in 1:72 (that got ripped off by some crettin in Czech as a resin and he even used my instruction sheet and snowpaked out the bottom halves of the wings and tail)

John

Edited by John Aero
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John, gents all, just how bad IS this piracy business that I am being warned of? I have a couple of tales from John, privately, which worries me no end.

Your thoughts would be appreciated if you know of any examples.

Martin

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