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Vac form start-up, what would sell well?


Scratchbuilder

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Er… I'd have thought that 'vacform' and 'sell well' are mutually exclusive terms these days? ;-)

That said, the Fairey Delta 2 would certainly be a worthy subject, catering to the specialist… (I almost said 'crowd'). And produced in 'in flight' config, your son wouldn't have to worry about external details such as landing gear. Not much would be seen in the cockpit through those small windows, either.

If he's successful, may I add another Fairey to the wish list – the shapely Fantôme?

Kind regards,

Joachim

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If I may, as one of the few modellers who have ventured into vac-formed models, there seems to be a fear of them and for what reason I can't explain. Maybe there is too much work involved maybe they are considered inferior?

I would suggest a subject that your son has a passion for, something easily mastered and something that would hopefully be of interset to others (the difficult part). The the subject would need to be of a quality that would attractive to the punter. Have a look at say a Dynavector (48th scale) kit and a Rarepalnes (72nd scale) see what the kit consists of and what it would need in the way of items other than the airframe parts ie, decals, white, resin metal and or PE parts. The kit would I think had to match the quality of the current crop of resin kits to be popular. The Fairy Delta 2 suggested above sound interesting It starts getting complicated!

However a srtaight forward kit with just the basics of the right subject might just work. Let the punter get the parts from say Aeroclub I wish you both luck. I may be totally wrong.

PM me if you wish, I did master fro ID Models, Falcon and now I'm the hands behind ROTORcraft

Colin @ ROTORcraft

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As this thread has been posted under the inter war banner perhaps something from that era , first off something relatively simple , how about something like DH 71 . Not sure if it has ever been kitted before , it is esoteric but a vacform kit in this day and age is somewhat esoteric in itself .

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Personally I would not bother wondering what could or not sell. Vacforms, as every "cottage industry" product are produced in a relatively small number anyway, so you would need something that sells well enough for you to recover the cost of tooling and manufacturing and maybe make a small profit to throw immediately into the next product... Of course there are some subjects that makes no sense to cover and these would be those easily available in injected plastic form.

I would worry more other aspects: what could I make that I know well and like so that:

1) it will be a good product

2) the fact I like the subject will keep me going anytime I hit a problem during my "product development"

Point 1 is IMHO important: as the typical modeller buying this type of kits usually doesn't mind a fiddly construction but likes to see a well researched product

Point 2 is self explaining...

So if your favourite subjects are say RAF fighters of the '20s, choose one of these. If you do something good and not otherwise available, you'll find other fellow modellers that share your taste and will buy your kit.

Of course as a first kit, it makes sense to make something simple so that you can make experience with the manufacturing process without having to deal with complicated shapes or moulds that are too large and so on. But all these aspects depend on your (and your son's) previous experience. If you already possess the knowledge to make a master and to make vacformed parts, there's no need for this.

Another very important factor is: how are you going to sell your first kit ? This to be seen from different angles:

- what are you going to offer in the package ? The shape only ? Some details ? And if so, resin or white metal ? Wil you add decals ? What about instructions ?

- how will you approach the potential customers ? A website ? word of mouth among other modellers ? A forum like this one ?

- any marketing activity ? Spread the word here ? Or send samples to other sites ? Magazines ? Will you advertise anywhere ?

- how will you deal with your customers ? email ? can you follow up quickly ?

IMHO certain marketing aspects can be more important than the subject. Kits that were well presented and well advertised have sold more than others even if they were not great and didn't cover great subjects. Of course the venture you have in mind will not compete with the big guys, but if you look at other past manufacturers of vacforms you'll see that some got certain things better than others...

About the Fairey Delta: do you mean a Delta or a Delta 2 ? What scale ? A 1/72 Delta 2 would make little sense as there are kits around, a Delta might be more interesting as there's less competition. in 1/48 both might be interesting, and in this case the Delta 2 would likely be not only the more interesting, but also the one for which it's easier to find documentation and make a good kit.

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gents,

thanks for your detailed replies.

To put this in to context....I have always liked vac form kits and feel they get a bad press. So I am prepared to have a go at a few and see what happens.

My son made two vac-formers for doing sci-fi body armour for his son, but the lad isn't really interested, so I thought we could put them to use.

The small one for making clear windows for slot cars, which is my main business currently and also for the model aircraft canopies. That leaves the large one for doing the main kits.

My son knows nothing about model aircraft or vac-forming but is a very fast learner. I make patterns for all sorts and have done a fair bit of vac-forming in the past, albeit over male patterns. Forming into female moulds is all new to me.

As to subject matter, I agree it is likely that something I personally like is always going to be easier, but as a professional modelmaker I hope I can do as good a job on something I don't care for as something I like. I have had to do that many times for clients, from 2mm scale model railways to full sized clay modelling on cars I hate! (Audis and Porsches, particularly). I still did a job that pleased the designers, though.

The scale will be 1/48th as I like that scale and I think it is becoming more popular. These days I find 1/72nd too small to appreciate. Obviously that's entirely my own feeling. I also don't want to remotely risk treading on another producer's toes and in 1/48th scale that is far less likely.

I thought a Fairey Delta 2 in that scale would be reasonably simple and manageable at around 13" long. And it's just gorgeous anyway! I am quite a fan of early British jets, as they don't seem so military as the guns and brown paint brigade, which I just cannot bring myself to do, for MYSELF, though I do whatever I'm asked for others.

My main interest is in private light aircraft and preferably British as they are what I am familiar with and love. I like the colourful liveries so often used on them.

Giorgio, I would probably market the kits by announcements on forums and special interest groups like Wings of Peace.

I will also get a free website up and running, although my son will do that as he takes the most magnificent photographs and knows "pooters" backwards.

They will bear my old Company name of Guild Master Models, but I must not cross any forum lines on advertising.

These will be sold directly from us as we don't intend getting big enough to supply the major dealers.

I will make the patterns, for vac-form parts, white metal and resin parts. I will also do the instruction leaflets and drawings as my other trade was as a technical illustrator/author, working for such as Rolls-Royce, Lotus, Ford Motor Co. and many others.

Similarly, I will also do the photo-etch and decal a/w as I used to when I produced my very successful range of 1/43rd scale model car kits and model boats. I did 11 colour a/w for a fancy cruiser in 1/72nd scale, right down to wood grain and Formica worktops! All with a pen over a light box, as I still do.

I will also do a painting for the box lid!

I should, perhaps, make it clear that the main purpose of these kits is to give the capable and learning model maker a "scratch assist" model which is accurate in shape and research, but to which it will be necessary to add detail such as panel line definition, since that is a very difficult thing to try and do in a vac-form pattern. The other main thing is to keep the cost considerably lower than a full resin kit.

I do patterns for those too, but this is a very different intention.

I hope that makes the "project" clearer.

I have this minute received, from my dear wife, the latest book on Schneider aircraft by Ralph Pegram and I am now in a complete turmoil as to what to do first! Oh Lordy, Mr. Pegram, what have you done to me???

Cheers,

Martin (and his son, Mike)

Edited by Scratchbuilder
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What about 1/24 classic cars conversions?????

For example, a set of both front and rear ends to convert a Tamiya Morris Mini Cooper into a Riley Elf or Wolseley Hornet, or a competely new roof to convert an Aoshima MGB Roadster into a GT....Won't be a bad starting point, prior to offer a complete kit in 1/48....

Cheers...

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You know, Artie, that's not a bad idea!

As most of my patterns have been for cars over the years, they wouldn't be a problem, apart from the detailing. The Mini has those seams on the wings?

Cheers,

Martin

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F-16 600gal fuel tanks. Quite a few airforces use them (IDF for instance) but they're not in any F16 kits AFAIK. They come in the Mistubishi F-2 kits but it's an expensive way to get hold of them. You can get resin tanks (and I think skunkworks did a weapon set with them) but they're expensive. And you could do them in all scales. Vacformed fuel tanks would also be a good starter for any modeller wanting to dabble with their first vacform experience.

And I like the idea for car stuff. I've always wanted to do an escort Mk1, the bodyshell would be useful starting point.

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Martin to take that a step further, there are the Model Caers mag plans availabel somewhere. A string of 1/24th scale 50/60's Le Mans cars, British racing sports cars and Formula one cars with a Tamiya kit as a donor for the Ford DFV motor. Plenty of scope there to wet the imagination. It doesn't have to be an aircraft, Transit van, Morris van, Bedford Tilly van......

Colin

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What about 1/24 classic cars conversions?????

For example, a set of both front and rear ends to convert a Tamiya Morris Mini Cooper into a Riley Elf or Wolseley Hornet, or a competely new roof to convert an Aoshima MGB Roadster into a GT....Won't be a bad starting point, prior to offer a complete kit in 1/48....

Cheers...

Add me to a list of 24th scale MGB GT bodies.

72nd Avro Tudor?

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I can't keep up with the answers!

The car thing is a possibility, except my son's machines don't do deep draughts.

I also was kind of keen to get away from cars a bit. I have been doing cars for decades, currently slot racing body shells in resin, 1/32nd scale. And I'm a bit tired of them.

However model vehicles in 1/48th scale are something I'm considering, se other threads.

A Transit van is certainly well overdue. All the old Model Car mag plans and even some from the predecessor, Model Maker, are available from vsrn-online. Many, if not most, are utter drivel! Especially those done by Walkden Fisher and Roger Taylor. Basically....ignore them. Anything by Russell Black and especially Ettienne Becker are superb. Malcolm Firth's work is generally worth consideration and of course, the few done by Dennis Jenkinson, surprisingly, considering his future career as a motoring writer, for Model Car News, a collection of Wartime issues of which I treasure.

Much to consider, gents, for which many thanks.

I think either the Fairey Delta 2 or a Schneider Trophy aircraft will be first. Possibly both in quick succession!

Sorry, Wooksta, no 72nds.

Cheers,

Martin

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Sorry if I'm repeating anyone's posts here (I'm in a bit of a rush), but I'd want any British or German test projects in 1:48. There aren't enough British P planes like the FD2 around, and certainly not in 1:48. The German test projects seem pretty well covered in 1:72, but not so much in 1:48.

Might I also suggest some conversions for unusual configurations of well known planes, such as a 2-seater Spit, or the Wyvern? Just spit-ballin' ;)

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Mike, I like those ideas, too, thanks.

Wooksta,I won't be doing airliners as they are covered pretty well by the likes of Aircraft in Miniature and others and they are not something I know anything about.

Martin

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I may be wrong in thinking that most of the modellers who are willing to try something that little bit out of the ordinary work in 1/72, but you are right that there are many more aircraft for you to choose from in 1/48 without fear of competition. I'd say that previously successful vacform companies have tended to specialise in areas they made their own: for example interwar USN, WW2 German projects, WW1 anything, airliners. The key point being that the market for these types was small but enthusiastic. Some of these have been taken over by the mainstream, so I'd steer clear of WW2 German or any WW1 on that ground. I'd have thought interwar a good period to mine, there being a fairly wide range of subjects and enough interested parties. I have some doubts about the Schneider Trophy providing a large enough market. Most modellers prefer military subjects, and there's liable to be a lot of blinkers around - will British modellers buy the Curtiss or Macchi designs despite enthusing over the S4 or Crusader? They do have the advantage of being small.

Not my period, not my scale, but picking subjects for you anyway...... there's a good book out on the Fairey IIIF to spark interest. The Fairey Fawn is attractive - assuming you want to steer clear of the Hart variants. There's a number of suitable carrier torpedo bombers. What about the F.7/30 prototypes? Or perhaps a Gauntlet would have a potentially wider market, as people could use stuff intended for Gladiators?

I do think it best that you do something that you are inspired by. If that means Schneider Trophy racers than go for it. Let those who want Overstrands and Sidestrands in 1/48 make their own.

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Artie, probably no Brigand, sorry!

Graham, I couldn't agree more.

I really am not a military fan, so they're out ....until we get to post-War British jets and they are generally so beautiful that I make an exception. Often finished in bare metal with little to do but watch out for the almost imagined Russian threat, they were hardly military at all. However when they start getting painted in mud pattern carrying all sorts of extras, I lose interest.

My real passions are Sports and racing aircraft and prototypes.

I don't do WW1 or airliners bigger than a Dragon Rapide or Miles Gemini (there's a candidate!).

I won't paint anything in shades of landscape either.

If we don't make much, so be it. It's mainly to supplement my son's meagre income anyway and give him an excuse to escape to his shed sometimes. The chances are, he'll make more money, more easily, moulding window sets for slot cars. We both have other things to do and support us, so it's really up to what we like and what I feel like making patterns for. He's not a modelmaker, but he is a very capable young chap.

Thanks for your response.

Martin

Edited by Scratchbuilder
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Sorry if I'm repeating anyone's posts here (I'm in a bit of a rush), but I'd want any British or German test projects in 1:48. There aren't enough British P planes like the FD2 around, and certainly not in 1:48. The German test projects seem pretty well covered in 1:72, but not so much in 1:48.

Might I also suggest some conversions for unusual configurations of well known planes, such as a 2-seater Spit, or the Wyvern? Just spit-ballin' ;)

I'm with Mike on that - and if you do an FD2 how about a follow up with the Bristol 188? There was a resin model in 1/.72 but nothing in 1/48 AFAIK

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John, you read my mind! I've been fascinated with that great, but unsuccessful aircraft since I was a kid, reading Eagle comic. It's frightening how many of those kites are now so old!

Like me, I guess!

Martin

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