Scratching out a Sherpa rebuilding the pictures I HOPE

[perdu]

 

Just for advice really, I have begun rebuilding this thread using postimage.org and hopefully removing all trace of the baleful influence of Photobucketof...

I'm about three pages in by midnight 17022018

 

Calling this "Scratching" because it has been an itch to rebuild it for twenty five years or more

 

 

Many years ago I built one from drawings I scaled up from manufacturers GA Press drawings released by Shorts to the press. They sent me some lovely brochures of the 330 and 360 that I was able to work with.

 

The C-23A was used by the USAF in its ESDA role and was specifically required to be able to carry, amongst other requirements, the P&W F-100 engines used by many USAF combat aircraft, no doubt you all know these.

 

But the model was not as good as I thought it was and was "unplaced" at the IPMS Nats at Stoneleigh that year. Which made me a sad chappie

 

Returning to the hobby a couple of years ago I resolved to do it again but better this time and finding the Scale Aircraft Modelling issue with the Shorts 330/C-23A drawings in it at the SMW in 2011 gave me the means to get a better one built.

 

Chris Bowley's drawings are a pretty good starting point for this job, good overall but with a few minor alterations needed in certain areas. The sponsons are the most obvious place as they are not the shape of the real thing. They are smaller and unbulged where bulges are needed.

 

 

 

Here is the altered drawing I used to match the photograph

 

 

 

The outlines I worked to can be seen

 

I made resin blanks to vac form the shells from, seen here on my homebrew vacform device

 

 

 

I made several resin casts of the P&W PT 6A-45-R engines and as they were all larger than the sponsons I used some of them to cut down to the sponson shape.

 

I'll update later on  starting the fuselage and its interior padded sidewalls

 

Hope this entertains you a bit, I know my writing isn't up to much though sorry

 

Soon

 

 

Bill

Edited February 17, 2018 by perdu

[keefr22]

I've read a lot worse writing than yours Bill!!

 

Looking forward to updates on this one, I think it should be very entertaining!  

 

keef

[Shar2]

So is this a new build or a continuation of the one you've been doing on Pistonheads Bill? Either way you're a braver man than I and love the way scratch builders work.

I remember seeing one a C-23 coming into Yeovilton with a spare engine for an F-16 which diverted with an engine problem. Two hours from the C-23 arriving the F-16 was ready for a test flight. The best we could do with a Sea Harrier was about 24 hours.

[perdu]

Thanks chaps

 

Yes Shar this is the same thing, I have been dawdling with it 'cos of the missus's allergy problems so I take a very long time over models now.

 

Iam getting quite a bit into the build now so I thought I'd have enough pictures to help out the strained narrative 

[Nobby]

Oh aye! Nice one bill! I like the scratchy stuff so i'll keep me eye on this! Like your vac tool as well. I'm going to have to get round to replacing my crude bean can job i knocked up to do the Defiant turret with one like yours! 

[keefr22]

I thought I'd seen you were scratchbuilding a C-23 before Bill, but couldn't think where - haven't been on PH for a while, so that's probably why I'd forgotten!

 

keef

[perdu]

Good to be able to entertain you

 

 

If it does 

 

I was going to vacform the fuselage sides so I stuck a cut out onto a dollop of deal and started shaping it

 

Blimey that went absolutely nowhere, I should have bought a few chunks of balsa, would have been much easier

 

who knows, maybe a 330 with windows out of clear acteate next time around

 

 

Instead I took a sheet of 0.060" plasticard and cut out two sides the same. The nose section was narrowed to fit the flat sided bit of the Sherpa, as all the curved round sections would be built up from Milliput

 

 

 

The port side panel was stuck to a laminated floor, two 0.060" and one 0.040"  seen here with the flight engineer's station under construction

Then it was painted with a close cousin of Sky made from Dark Green and White Tamiya colours and the laminated loni-type flooring material was stippled tamiya orange, deck tan and light grey

 

Quite pleased with that it is just like the real floor in the C-23A

 

You can tell I wasnt really planning a WIP at this stage from the stages I didn't photograph

 

 

Sorry about the photo, its about typical of me I'm afraid

 

It is essential to ensure the walls and floor are at exactly 90° or it wont go together properly

 

Honest!

 

Some of the castings of engine halves I made from Plastic Padding (some of which were later "sponsoned") and the other side of the fuselage pre treatment

 

In this picture you can see the decal for the USAF MAW on the upper locker door, the cabin door with its bracket for the Elsan fitting   and the wheels and engines ready for use. The vertical fin and rudders assemblies are almost finished too, just some smaller detailing to be finished there.

The flight engineers seat was plunge moulded using a wooden clothes peg cut away as a former and the wheels were cut from circles of plasticard

 

 

I think this will do for a start, got a drive out tomorrow. Post some more tomorrow night just after I win the lotterby  he he

 

 

Bill

Edited February 14, 2018 by perdu

[2wheels]

Will be watching this with interest as I've three Aeroclub kits in my stash with the intention of one day...if it ever happens.. of building a 330, 360 and C-23.

If you need a set of the aeroclub decals let me know. They're all early european camo aircraft.

[Michaelvk]

Oh cool!

 

Weren't they powered by Rover 3.5ltr V8's, or am I thinking of a different Sherpa?

 

Anyway, carry on. Will watch.

[pinky coffeeboat]

My mums uncle (not quite sure what that makes him to me? Second uncle? Great uncle?) was 330/360 production manager at Shorts back in the 80's. One Sunday morning he gave my dad, my brother and me a guided tour of the factory. After looking round the production lines and design offices we finally ended up in the pre-delivery hangar. In there was a Sherpa all painted in Euro1 and ready to go. My brother and I had a great time being hangar pilots sitting in the cockpit and wandering all around the inside. Brilliant!!

 

They (Shorts) had also just received the first examples of the Tucano from Brasil and had them in a hangar all broken down and being used as templates and such.

 

Anyway, this doesn't help your build at all but your build does remind me of some very happy childhood memories   . I too have all those lovely publicity brochures you mention and a few leaflets for the FJX that never got beyond leaflet stage

[perdu]

The FJX should have been a worldbeater

 

I had  to make the mainplanes twice because I miscalculated the thickness, I started with 2 strips of 0.060" and 1 of 0.030" laminated but they weren't thick enough so the newest version was scraped and filed down from a triple lamination of 0.060" sheet

 

here's one of the early (bad) ones being scraped to its aerofoil section, I'm not sure why I didn't make pictures of the successes

 

 

The laminate was taped along a square section of deal so I could control the removal of unwanted plastic easily and see how far I'd come

Now in this picture I'm checking the second section after finishing the one on the first convex side

 

 

While making a model like this I like to pull all of my detail photos together in one place so I can get the feel for the machine, this is a selection of pictures I stuck to my build reference boards nearly thirty years ago for my first attempt at this Taken at Fairford at the IAT in 85

Obviously this picture of the board was taken during a later stage of perduction but finding the pictures lost to Photocrappit has been . . . taxing

 

 

 

 

Just a picture of the aileron sections receiving the ribbing that is blooming prominent all over the SD330/360 and Sherpa flying control surfaces

 

What a pain these have been, once hardened they are almost totally removed, leaving just a suggestion that they were there 

 

 

I'm not sure why I'm rushing this bit, there's loads yet to make as of today...

 

Talking about wheels and seats tomorrow

 

Ah yes

 

Didn't win t'Lotto again this week, I'm getting VERY good at that

 

Not winning

 

Hope you like what I'm showing, if there's something I miss because I didnt think to tell you, please let me know

 

2wheels thanks for the offer of some decals, that is very generous of you. I am going to build the one I photographed at Fairford and have many of the ones I need already now I have the correct font in my copy of Word ready to print to order

 

But, knowing me I might just give in to common sense and ask you, can we have one of those 'raincheck thingies' on that please mate?  Ta

 

Night all see you anon

 

bill

Edited February 14, 2018 by perdu

[Nobby]

Good going there mate! 

 

Just a suggestion. Would it not have been more enjoyable to build the wing with skins, ribs and spars as opposed to laminating with thick sheet then sanding? I know it may sound as though it would take longer but you do have to sand the wing to section and this from my experience takes a long time to do and creates lots of mess. I hope you don't think i'm "teaching granny" here!  

[perdu]

I dont think it's at all like teaching granny John

 

I had a couple of goes at "rib-n-spar" work over skins but it didnt feel or look quite right

 

One attack I did had two skins with spars along the wings that curved the skins front and back (thick spar front thin spar rear) but that didnt work nicely either. I used Evergreen rods to do that one with. 'Cos the Shorts' planes have very strong wings with an awful lots of details that you can see on the real things I decided eventually just to go solid, it didn't take too long after the laminations had stuck together.

 

 

As well as a flat modelling knife blade I got the most of the 'meat' off with an 8" half round file. I'm an ex toolmaker so file work is basic and very easy for me the 'aerofoil shapes' took very little work to liberate from where they had been hidden inside the solid blocks.

 

 

Photobucket kept messing me about, even back then sod them hoorah for Postimage.org

 

I'm doing a 'howIdunnit' for the wheels just now, post it tonight if I can work it out properly.

 

bill

Edited February 14, 2018 by perdu

[Nobby]

Thanks for the explanation Bill! 

 

Looks like you've nailed it there!  

[kev67]

I'm liking this, very different

[Andy K]

A bit more inspiration for you;

 

 

Taken at RAF Alconbury in 1986.

[Nobby]

To add to that, it'll be interesting to see how you approach the propeller blades.   

[perdu]

Prop blades?

 

C'mon mate there's only TEN!   (and four of them will have socks over the ends to tether them) 

 

I am going to use a couple of 500 pounders (noses of) for the spinners, I have a pair of these (and some old F4 drop tanks which will provide almost the exact curved pointy section for them

 

I have some Mr Surfacer 1000 that I'd like to use on my wheels to smooth out the cross section (You'll see why soon) can anyone tell me how long this stuff takes to become polish/sand/able? Or should I just go back to green stuff or white stuff with liquid poly as thinners?

 

I haven't found Mr Surfacer to be much good yet it was a rash purchase at Cosford two years ago and I wondered if this will be the magic job that gives me a breakthrough with it

 

 

 

b

Edited February 14, 2018 by perdu

[perdu]

Drivers seats and wheels next

 

I pull moulded the seats for the crew by carving a wooden clothes peg to the shape of the seat buckets with backrest built in

 

The wood of a clothes peg, if suitably seasoned by years of hanging damp washing in the sun, takes a modelling knife nicely and I use them a lot for mould making in 1/72  (gaffer hasn't said she's noticed them missing, bet she has)

 

I fill the seat moulding with small amounts of Milliput or carved thick plasticard as cushions. Pilots got the plasticard but the crew chief had Milliput

 

 

 

Sorry for a; horrible pictures  b; I sound like I'm trying to preach, I'm not a great communicator. Try to tone down the teacher bit ...

 

 

I have had to build wheels for this because I threw away all the contents of my spares boxes when I dropped out of  the  hobby so long ago

 

The Sherpa/330/360 have very distinctive wheels with a series of small and smaller holes around the flat centre plate

 

Not difficult to make if you can drill tidily - I can't

 

Start with a sheet of twenty thou plasticard and mark off all the centres then drill with fine drills in a pin chuck

 

I marked out with pencil first and made a few c-ups like this one before I got a couple of acceptable ones (some of the holes are out of line a bit but they will be hidden up under the sponson)

 

 

 

Then take the thicker card for the tyres and cut out the tyre shapes with a compass cutter   MAKE LOTS They can be of variable useability

 

first mark and cut the outer diameter

 

 

Then next adjust the size for the inner diameter, easy stuff with a decent cutter. Mine needs longer blades to be of use really but I muddled on

 

 

This gave me some tyres and wheel centres to stick together then file and sand to shape around the cross section

 

I made strips of card to add the wheel rims from and made centre hub sections

This leaves me the task of sanding and polishing the tyres for a decent effect

 

Not done yet, on the list

 

wings next

Edited February 14, 2018 by perdu

[Radleigh]

Smart, when I saw your other thread I was hoping you would get a WIP up, glad you have!

[Learstang]

Brilliant work on the wheels, Bill!  I've always liked the C-23 Sherpa.  It definitely looks all the no-nonsense aeroplane it was (is? - does the USAF still use them?).

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[perdu]

Hi Jason I think they are retired from Air Force service and maybe even the US Army will have lost them by now, C-27 taking over there.

 

Nasa had one or two and the US Fire Service still might be users.

 

This was stuff I found out on the 'net, an amazing resource for we modellers

 

I could play with google for hours (and often do)

 

Thanks for joining in, you too radleigh

 

Always happy to be of some use

 

b

[perdu]

I said wings next

 

Oops I meant the fuselage interior

 

For the sound deadening padded walls I stuck a thin layer of Milliput to a piece of 20 thou p/card and whilst it was still wet I pressed a sheet of mesh onto it then whipped it off leaving the hexagonal pattern impressed in it. The mesh was from a length of "fly excluding window mesh" perfect for this job

 

this next stage shows the starboard wall in place, padded and with the emergency exit markings applied to the shaped cut out area

 

 

heres a view inside of the additional crew seating and the flight engineer's position chair. The smudgy grey box is the loading winch machinery

 

 

I dont know why this picture is so horrid but this is the real thing inside a USAF Sherpa

 

 and my take on it for the model. The upper rail got bent but it's straight now

 

 

OK that's all for now, I will do the undercart structure next

 

if I don't do something else...not too good at planning this  sorry 

 

 

bill

Edited February 14, 2018 by perdu

[keefr22]

More good tips Bill - I like the wheels!

 

keef

[HOUSTON]

Bill.

Ooof... Nice work..very good inspiring ...