Mig-21 PF Fishbed 1/48

[nirvanagr]

Hi guys.

 

I'm looking for some info about the Mig-21 PF Fishbed 1/48.

 

I've searched on the net and found out that there is an Academy kit available in the market.

 

My questions here are;

 

1.What colour is needed for the cockpit? Is there a version of the PF Mig that has a non-light blue cockpit?

 

I've also found this;

 

http://www.arcair.com/Fea1/301-400/Fea333_Mig19_Juarez/00.shtm

 

The cockpit is painted in black (?). Is that correct?

 

 

2. Also, is the academy's kit quality satisfying or do i have to buy a lot of aftermarket stuff?

 

 

Thank you in adcance!

 

Yannis

[SaintsPhil]

I have the kit in my stash and it looks ok. I went for a resin pit, as the one in the kit isn't the best.

I was lucky enough to get an FM details cockpit, now OOP, of you can find one of these grab it! If not the pavla one is ok for the price. Otherwise it's not bad for detail, I did pick up an Eduard etch set, but not sure how much I'll use.

I have robbed the fuel tank and missiles from an eduard kit though, as those are a bit nicer.

Incidently Eduard have announced their PF kit is coming later this year if you can wait....

Oh cockpit colour, I'm not sure! I assumed the usual blue green, but I've not looked into it yet. The picture on the FM box is painted black though....

Edited January 16, 2013 by SaintsPhil

[nirvanagr]

Interesting info.

 

 

Do you know if i can paint the cockpit in black colour? I don't like the usual light blue. If there is a possibility to paint it black or grey, then what version (air force) should i choose?

 

Thank you very much!

 

Yannis

Edited January 16, 2013 by nirvanagr

[nirvanagr]

Guys, i have noticed there is a possibility that the cockpits of most Mig-21s were painted in grey colour prior to the green overpainting. Is that true?

 

 

If so, then i can purchase a MIG-21 MF or other version of this plane. My point here is that i don't want to paint the cockpit in green colour.

 

Can anyone help me on this, please?

 

Any kind of help will be much appreciated.

 

Thank you!

Edited January 16, 2013 by nirvanagr

[SaintsPhil]

Like I say I've not looked into it yet myself, having just breifly glanced at the kit instructions it says blue grey, not very helpful!....

[nirvanagr]

Not so helpful, indeed.

 

But thank you for your interest.

 

 

If anyone else knows anything about my concern, please help me.

 

Thanks!

[Anthony Kesterton]

Hi - I found this picture of a Hungarian Mig21 PF - this is looks grey

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/last_lightning/8019259436/

 

This says it is from Cosford - so you might be able to find some more pictures or info on the Cosford site.

 

I have two Mig-21 books (Squadron and a Planes and Pilots one) but no cockpit shots.

 

anthony

Edited January 16, 2013 by Anthony Kesterton

[Giorgio N]

You can paint your PF with a grey cockpit. This is a medium-dark grey, The well known blue-green colour was introduced in the late '60s, so as long as you make your model to represent an aircraft used before that date you'll be fine with grey.
i've never seen black on any MiG-21 cockpit

[Jennings Heilig]

MiG-21 cockpits when the PF was being produced were painted medium grey (as were the gear struts).  The jade green didn't come into use until sometime after the PF had been replaced by the PFM and MiG-21S on the assembly lines.

 

The Academy kit is actually pretty awful if you know anything about the MiG-21.  There are dozens (if not hundreds) of pages of postings on various model forums about it. 

 

Fortunately Eduard is promising 2nd generation Fishbeds in 1/48 this coming year.

[ya-gabor]

I can only second what Jennings has said. The MiG-21 F, F-13 and PF  versions had a mid (slightly) bluish grey cockpit colour. (There were no general rule's, or very exact border lines for the use of the grey cockpit colour and change over to the "Russian cockpit glue", it was still in use with the PFM).   I must add that this was not just one grey colour but several shades of grey on different cockpit panels and instruments. The exception was the instrument panel which was painted with a special black paint ("frozen" which after heat treatment had a "leathery" feel to it (still used today on some instruments even in the West)) and it was very matt. 

 

If I was you, I would wait for the Eduard MiG-21 PF kit scheduled for 2013. Based on the MiG-21MF kit they did it should be far better than the Academy offering.

Best regards

Gabor

[Homebee]

1/48th Eduard MiG-21PF

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234932634

 

V.P.

[SaintsPhil]

I best get on and build my academy kit, call it a test bed for the Eduard version!

[nirvanagr]

Guys, thank you all for your replies.

 

@Jennings Heilig: Thank you for your suggestion on the upcoming Eduard kit but i'm afraid it will be more expensive than the Academy one, bearing in mind the other Eduard Migs. As i am not a MIG or Russian jets enthusiast, i only want to build a PF with a non green painted cockpit and, why not, a not so usual camo. So, i suppose i'll stay with the Academy kit.

 

 

@ya-gabor: Thanks for your answer, mate! I'm sure the upcoming Eduard's MIG-21 quality will be better than the Academy one, but as i said above, i just want to build a simple MIG-21PF with a grey cockpit.

 

 

@Anthony Kesterton: Thank for the pic, Anthony. I've been to the Cossford Museum twice and seen this plane. But...I blame myself for not having taken many pics of her because i never expected to build a MIG-21 kit. :(Also, both times i visited the museum the canopy was closed.

 

@Giorgio N, Homebee, SaintsPhil:  Many thanks for your interest, mates! I really appreciate your will to help.

 

 

Does anyone have any more PF cockpit shots in grey coclour? This will help me with painting much more.

 

 

Thanks again!

[nirvanagr]

You can paint your PF with a grey cockpit. This is a medium-dark grey, The well known blue-green colour was introduced in the late '60s, so as long as you make your model to represent an aircraft used before that date you'll be fine with grey.

i've never seen black on any MiG-21 cockpit

 

I've found this:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Mig21PFfamilyweb.jpg

 

Do you know if this Egyptian aircraft's (1972) cockpit was painted grey or not?

 

Otherwise, i would like to know which countries' aircrafts had grey painted cockpits.And of course, with no natural metal external finish! I confess i'm a little bit confused...

 

 

Also, is this set suitable for early Mig-21 PF's?

 

 

http://www.pavlamodels.cz/katalogy/detail.php?k=cockpits&c=C48003&styl=styly.css

 

I think it contains the SK-1 seat.

Edited January 17, 2013 by nirvanagr

[ya-gabor]

The PF's were delivered from the factory with grey cockpits so it is almost sure that the Egyptian one also had a grey cockpit. Good luck with the build!

The Pavla set is supposed to be for the PF so it should be OK and yes, that is an SK ejection seat in the set.

Best regards

Gabor

[SaintsPhil]

I have the pavla set too, bought it before I got the FM set. It's ok but the detail on the seat was very soft, belts were hardly visible. I thought about getting a Neomega seat to replace it but their website didnt list one. They've just released a pit for the F-13 so maybe the seat will come out on its own too...

[nirvanagr]

Thank you for your reply, ya-gabor.

 

 

I've found that the Academy kit includes (among others) a decal option for an Egyptian aircraft. It's the following:

 

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/14/pics/6_15.png

 

 

It seems this a/c has a green cockpit. Can i paint it in grey? Also, may i use the pavla set for this a/c?

 

 

@SaintsPhil: If i can use this set to the above aircraft, then i can buy it from you (if you don't need it). If you agree with that, please send me a pm.

 

Thanks again!

[ya-gabor]

You sure that Americo Maia was there to see what colour was the cockpit in 1972??? I still say 99% that the cockpit was in the original grey as the Russians delivered it. There was no time for these airframes in those days to reach general overhaul time limits. Most were lost in combat. 

Best regards

Gabor

[nirvanagr]

You sure that Americo Maia was there to see what colour was the cockpit in 1972??? I still say 99% that the cockpit was in the original grey as the Russians delivered it. There was no time for these airframes in those days to reach general overhaul time limits. Most were lost in combat. 

Best regards

Gabor

 

 

I think you are right. Only the pilots of these jets can be sure 100%.

 

So, critical thinkng should jastify your opinion.

 

Thanks again for your interest and time spent on my concern.

 

Yannis

[noeyedears]

you can . the ip was black and the rest, side consoles, seat pan etc were gray. ill try to upload a pic tomorrow for you. i have pics of a pf with green cockpit too , this may be a museum repaint or export version  so may not be the original colour. the mig pf on the academy box art is based on a museum repaint too, the plane it is based on was not camouflaged when in service but was nmf. all pictures of museum walkrounds should be taken with a pinch of salt, makes things difficult when mast original photos are not in colour.

Edited January 18, 2013 by noeyedears

[nico13]

Thank you for your reply, ya-gabor.

 

 

I've found that the Academy kit includes (among others) a decal option for an Egyptian aircraft. It's the following:

 

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/14/pics/6_15.png

 

 

It seems this a/c has a green cockpit. Can i paint it in grey? Also, may i use the pavla set for this a/c?

 

 

@SaintsPhil: If i can use this set to the above aircraft, then i can buy it from you (if you don't need it). If you agree with that, please send me a pm.

 

Thanks again!

 

I've got this kit. I plan to build an Egyptian MIG-21FL. In fact PF version doesn't have the large tail with the drogue parachute container. On your picture, this is a FL.

 

Furthermore I seriously doubt that aircraft on the picture (and so Academy kit) has really existed. But FL had a grey cockpit for sure :

 

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Eqpmt/Cockpits/C-1171-Cockpit.jpg.html

 

Nicolas

[nirvanagr]

I've got this kit. I plan to build an Egyptian MIG-21FL. In fact PF version doesn't have the large tail with the drogue parachute container. On your picture, this is a FL.

 

Furthermore I seriously doubt that aircraft on the picture (and so Academy kit) has really existed. But FL had a grey cockpit for sure :

 

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Eqpmt/Cockpits/C-1171-Cockpit.jpg.html

 

Nicolas

 

But every info i've found about Egyptian MIGs includes the PF version. Is the FL a code for the Egyprian MIG-21s?

 

I've also noticed that some PF have the parachute container on the tail fin and some others don't. In a review, the reviewer has written that the modeller should first choose what plane he wants to build because of this.

 

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/aca/kit_aca_2166.shtml#.UPiM7R3ZZ9E

 

If i don't find any pics of the real plane, then i'll have to follow the profile pic to paint the model..

Edited January 17, 2013 by nirvanagr

[noeyedears]

main types run f, f13, pf, pfm, u, um, sm/m, m/sm, mf, smt,bis lazur, bis sau. other designations are test, export or foreign maunufacture codes or  ones with very slight changes. i will up load pics to show differences friday afternoon along with pf cockpit photos. the pfs was half way between a pf and full pfm, it had the newer tail and chute and blown flaps. the fl was export only and was a downgraded pf with normal flaps but the newer tail/chute.

there are crossover versions as well. the update process was continuous and earlier versions were sometimes retrofitted with partial updates to confuse everyone. grrrrrrrrrr. of note some very late pf's had the updated tail/chute arrangement and there was even an interim tail design too. grrrrrrrrrr again.

unless you want to get really anal i would stick to the standard pf design as it is easy to get right.

ill try to answer any other questions you have but wait for the pics first as they will probably tell you all you want to know.

Edited January 18, 2013 by noeyedears

[ya-gabor]

I can only second what "noeyedears" has said. The only point is that the "bis sau" was a designation only used by the GDR AF, it is not an official designation. Development of the MiG-21 was continuous and any new designs were constantly added at the production plant or retrofitted making the clear border line between subtypes rather vague. Isn't the same true for any Western aircraft, look at the different batch F-16's.

 

It would be important to dig up some original photos of Egyptian examples before building the kit. If I remember right late in 1970's Air International had an article on this air force with excellent photos.

 

Best regards

Gabor 

Edited January 18, 2013 by ya-gabor

[nico13]

But every info i've found about Egyptian MIGs includes the PF version. Is the FL a code for the Egyprian MIG-21s?

 

This is an extract from Mirage III vs MiG-21: Six Day War 1967 from Osprey Publishing p. 28 :

 

Egypt received the first of its 45 to 50 MIG-21FL in 1965 [...]. The designation FL was used both by an export version of the MIG-21PFM and a variant manufactured in India.

 

And there : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21_variants

 

MiG-21FL (1965; Izdeliye 77)

Export (Third world) model of the MiG-21PF. Downgraded from baseline MiG-21PF with older and less powerful R11F-300 engine, no provision for carrying RS-2US beam-riding missiles and a simplified, downgraded version of the RP-21 radar, designated R1L. Wide-chord fin and brake chute fairing at its base. Built under license in India as the Type 77.

 

And a real one :

 

 

Nicolas

Edited January 18, 2013 by nico13