Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6

[Koshey]

Striking scrupulousness and attention to small details. I'm just delighted!

[roma847]

On 17.11.2017 at 3:44 PM, RichO said:

I like the idea of running the wires through the tube.  I don't know if you have tried soldering anything that small before, but it is a pain to work that small.

 

You will come up with a great solution tho, you always do!

 

Thanks Rich for your nice comment. 

 

I know, you speak from experience, maybe this mini soldering is really a painful matter, what I could imagine. 

 

Well, as not so experienced soldering pro seems to me that the threading of both wires without soldering of one of them at the tube anyway will be the simpler method and less stressful solution for me, whereby the wires should then be threaded in before bending the brass tube. 

[roma847]

On 17.11.2017 at 4:49 PM, Kirk said:

Would "thread before bending" work?

 

Hello Kirk,

 

this I had tested in my first bending test with a 0.5 mm brass tube, 

 

 

This method is essentially easier than threading in the wires after bending the tube. 

 

 

Another important problem is the marking of the poles (+ -) of the LED wires. 

 

Therefore, with the wired LEDs, the cathode is always much shorter than the anode, which is why the marking must be taken into account in any case during further wiring. And also for this one needs a reliable and safe solution, so as not to get confused, possibly through a colored marking or similar.

 

Therefore it would be interesting, how Rich has solved this problem during his crawler lighting, hey Rich? 

[roma847]

On 17.11.2017 at 9:04 PM, Koshey said:

Striking scrupulousness and attention to small details. I'm just delighted!

Thanks Koshey for your kind words, 

 

yep, that's it why I'm trying to scratch all these tricky details, because that's what gives it that extra something. 

[RichO]

Manfred,

 

  The lighting products I use are a self contained unit.  I don't have to solder anything, or worry about which color end is power or ground.  I just simply touch the ends to a battery and they work.  The distribution of power is a simple light switch for each "zone",  I don't have to have a special unit for this.

 

In USA these type of products are designed for lazy people who just want some lights in their model kits.  Nothing special to do here, just plug and play.

 

These products are available in the USA at "Ngineering.com".  A model railroad site.

 

[roma847]

Thanks Rich. 

 

Hello everybody,

 

Anyway, let's go, because with regard to the glass body for the lamps without a large lampshade, I have at least gotten a tip from a friend from the Paper Modelers Forum, who has found out a manufacturer of smallest glass beads in the Czech Crystal Valley, which I could perhaps contact to possibly get a handful of samples for testing.  

 

These mini beads Delica-RH / 321 11 001 (1,3 x 1,3 mm) could be a possibility with their size, and Macco-RH / 321 11 001 (1 x 1 mm) would also be interesting.

 

Source: preciosa-ornela.com

 

Crucial would be the inner diameter, which I have estimated from the image to 0.65 mm, which would be to check, which is why I have just asked there once.  

 

Similar mini beads (Ø 1.3 x 1.1 mm), which would fit and would also be suitable for threading the LED, I have in my stock, but unfortunately they are silvered and not transparent or red-transparent.  

 

So the matter does not seem to be hopeless. 

 

So long!  

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

just short to the status quo, as one could expect, from the Crystal Valley I've got a negative answer to my request, because they only deliver upwards of 30 kg.  

 

And quite so many lamps there are not installed on the Launch Pad.  

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

in the meantime, I went to another building site again and took care of the Intertank of the External Tank (ET), which I like to have as 3D print (1:144), if I can find a modeler and manufacturer for it.

 

Source: NASA

 

Here is the 3D model by my friend Bill (niParts) from the ARC Forum, but unfortunately only in 1:72 scale,  

 

Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

as well as here with the installation of the finished 3D-Intertank at his ET (1:72), where the part comes out great, in my opinion.

 

  
Source: arcforums.com (niart17)

 

And he also offers the matching mounts (Ice Frost Ramps) for the GH2 and GO2 pressure lines, also 1:72.

 

Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

A charming alternative to this is the Scratch building with thin Evergreen strips, 

 

Source: raumfahrer.net (inselaner)

 

as it was successfully and impressively had been realized by my friend (inselaner) in the Raumcon forum at the ET of his Airfix Shuttle Stack.

 

Source: raumfahrer.net (inselaner)

 

So far, I have also flirted with the idea of this scratch-building variant, in case I can not find a suitable 3D-print.

 

In the Airfix kit, the Intertank stringers are only hinted at by these boring decals and are therefore only 2D, which I can not make friends with.  

 

 

So I'm still trying to get a 3D Intertank (1:144), with that Michael Key (The Aerospace Place) had been starting in a hopeful way,

 

Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

 

on whose update I'm still waiting.  

 

That's why I've been more in-depth with the Stringers, if I have to scratch them myself, which I did not intend to do.

 

Source: NASA

 

So far, unfortunately, I had no dimensions of the stringers, but rather I have always tried to estimate it myself. At first, these images helped me, where cracks in the insulating foam on the Intertank before the STS-133 had been investigated,

 

Source: NASA

 

which were caused by a broken stringer, which can be seen here. And thus the height of the stringers should be about 2.5''.

 

Source: NASA

 

From another image of this study after the repair of this stringer area, then I have determinedthe 1:144 widths of the Stringer (0.3 mm) and the Valleys (0.65 mm), which would be a good basis for scratch building.  

 

Source: NASA

 

So far so good, but then I've actually found even more detailed information about stringer geometry in another NASA document (ntrs.nasa.gov), 

 

Source: NASA

 

with which I made this sketch (1:1), which was then supplemented by the 1'' thick foam insulation (red),

 

 

And these dimensions with foam insulation could now, if one would like, be taken as a basis for scratch building, which is summarized here again.

 

Source: NASA

 

But I still hope that Michael Key keeps on the line. At first he wanted to know the diameter and the exact position of the LO2-Feed Line as well as the Forward SRB Attachment Point) in the Intertank, what I still have to determine.

 

Source: NASA

 

[roma847]

Hello everyone,

 

and my hope was not disappointed. Yesterday Michael Key came up with a new update in which he took into account some of my correction hints.

 

On the one hand, it has reduced his previous, somewhat too large number of stringer in the two Thrust Panel to 26, as well as the perpendicularly extending circumferential segment rings somewhat narrower made, which looks much better.

 

Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

 

And on the other hand, he has adapted the geometry of the front and rear transitions from the Intertank to the ET better to the original.

 

Source: NASA

 

as you can see here, all respect.  

 

Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

 

In order to be able to continue modeling, he now needs the exact location of the SRB Forward Attachment Points, as well as the location of the LO2 Feedline (Ø 17'') and of the GO2 and GH2 Pressure Lines (Ø 2'') , shown in this drawing.

 

Source: Lockheed Martin (System Definition Handbook SLWT - Vol. II)

 

The only question is whether or how well the details of the Shuttle Stack from the Airfix Kit match this original drawing, or not.  

 

In order to be able to check these details on the shuttle stack, I had to disassemble my previously provisionally taped Test-stack and then to attach the kit supports at the SRB on the ET-Attachment Ring to determine the exact position of the coupling point on the Intertank.

 

 

 

With the glued supports, the location of the SRB on the ET was now fixed exactly,

 

and could be marked again.

 

 

After that, I was amazed that my border of the front SRB docking pad, previously marked with tape on the test stack, was sitting actually a bit too deep,   which could now be corrected.  

 

 

Then I still determined the location of the LO2 feedline on the Intertank and was pleasantly surprised that the angle of 23° matches with the value in the above drawing.

 

 

However, what is less consistent with the original is the spartan version of the feedline itself and the lack of coverage (Fairing).

 

Source: NASA

 

This has been realized much better by Revell on their ET-Intertank, as you can see here at the ET of my recently unexpectedly deceased friend Thomas from Bavaria, whose Real Space Modeling estate was taken over by me. 

 

In view of this, after careful consideration and in coordination with his wife and son, I have come to the conclusion that it would be also in his sense to at least partly preserve his model-building heritage, when I would integrate some of his assemblies and parts, e.g. the already LED illuminated FSS platforms and the Hammerhead Crane as well as the PE staircases for the tower, etc. into my model and would thus be able to document and honor his awesome modeling work and skills for everyone visibly posthumously. - May he rest in peace ...

 

And here finally the distance of the coupling point for Michael Key, which lies approximately in the middle.  

 

 

At this point, a continuous inner tube is foreseen into which I will later insert a brass rod (Ø 2 mm) to stabilize the SRBs.

 

Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)

[RichO]

What a wonderful report!  Nice tech report Manfred, we all know that you will get it sorted.

[roma847]

Thanks Rich for your great compliment, 

one only has to search long enough and should never give up, then one will also find the right sources for scratch building of those details. 

 

Therefore the report about the investigation of the Intertank Stringer Cracks with the exact stringer dimensions was finally the key for the 3D modeling of the intertank structure. 

 

 

[tiking]

Outstanding work so far. Very detailed.

[Mustermark]

Meticulous research, as ever! Great job, and brilliant collaboration.

[roma847]

Thanks guys, 

you know my attention to details close to the real thing. 

I cannot withstand. 

 

 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

in the direct comparison of the two ETs I noticed that the Revell IT is about three millimeters further back than on the Airfix ET,   while the lengths and diameters are almost identical.

 

 

And because we are comparing the two stack kits, I also looked at the SRBs a bit more closely and also found some differences.

 

 

Apart from the smaller number of lower rings, the Revell-SRB appears less filigree than the Airfix SRB, particularly caused by the larger Aft Skirt Hold-down Posts and the sturdier supports on the ET Attachment Ring, although the diameters are comparable.

 

If one compares the two undersides of the Aft Skirts, one will notice that the ring-shaped heat shield on the Airfix SRB is too narrow-breasted, which Revell has not solve optimally, but at least better, 

 

 

what the comparison with this picture makes clear, even if it is just a Mock-up on the KSC grounds.  

 

Source: NASA

 

Probably that has animated my ARC friend Bill (niart17) to 3D-modeling of his Heat shields (1:72).

 

Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

But neither the heat shield of the Mock-up nor the 3D printing are perfect, as the original consists of 24 segments, as one can see in this drawing. 

 

Source: Space Transportation System - HAER No. TX-116

 

And so it is also with the kits, no one is perfect, everyone has their advantages and disadvantages. 

[PZRGREN]

I built the revell shuttle with SRBs and ET and heavily detailed all of them using this set http://mek.kosmo.cz/newware/nw131.htm which has lots of corrections and upgrades and comes with decent placement details plus the website has alot of useful photos.   

 

I also needed the decals from here http://www.lakecountyspaceport.com/new-space-model-product-listings.html and could not fault these either I used the Late Era Shuttle Orbiter AFRSI & White Tile Decal Set and Space Shuttle Orbiter Standard Black Tile Decal Set .

 

 

[roma847]

Hello everybody,

 

now, of course, the question araises, how one could preferably scratch this heat shield, has anyone from the round possibly a useful tip?

 

Here also still an original photo, whereby these foam insulation under the rings in the early missions did not exist then.

 

Source: NASA

 

Or I could try to model such a half ring, e.g. by using Epoxie Sculpt on a circular ring from Sheet.

 

The easiest way would be for sure if I could motivate Michael Key to model such heat shields in 1/144 for 3D printing, similar as my friend Bill (niart17) made it in 1/72, although I do not necessarily want to overwhelm him with further extra wishes.

 

So, what else are there for suggestions or ideas?

[roma847]

On 17.12.2017 at 9:03 PM, PZRGREN said:

I built the revell shuttle with SRBs and ET and heavily detailed all of them using this set http://mek.kosmo.cz/newware/nw131.htm which has lots of corrections and upgrades and comes with decent placement details plus the website has alot of useful photos.   

 

I also needed the decals from here http://www.lakecountyspaceport.com/new-space-model-product-listings.html and could not fault these either I used the Late Era Shuttle Orbiter AFRSI & White Tile Decal Set and Space Shuttle Orbiter Standard Black Tile Decal Set .

 

 

 

Thank you for your advice on the Newware Detail set for the 1/144 Revell Shuttle stack and the Decal sets by Steven Jochums, which I know, but I lost sight of it. 

 

BTW, have you a building report of your Shuttle stack, and how would you rate the quality of the kit, especially of the resin parts? 

 

It would be very interesting to see the details and decals on your model. 

[roma847]

Hello friends,

 

BTW, after I've measured the SRB in the last photo again more exactly, I still hit on another idea. 

 

Make one out of two! 

I also still have a Revell Stack from the kit and could combine its Aft Skirt-Ring, which does not look too bad, with the Airfix Disc.

 

And I would imagine that the result could well become a useful compromise.

 

[RichO]

The Germans have a world wide reputation for fine German engineering. It will be fun to watch you cut this into 24 separate parts and get them mounted.

[roma847]

Thanks Rich for the nice compliments, 

 

Donald Trump would say, "Only Fake-News!".

 

But before I start with this, I want to wait some time, because my friend Joe from the ARC Forum has offered his help to try to model this part in 1:144 for 3D printing.

 

These are the parts of the Airfix SRB & Aft Skirt,

 

 

and here is my little sketch of the ASTC, technically known as the Aft Skirt Thermal Curtain,

 

 

which is desribed in this interesting report SRB Thermal Curtain Design Support. 

 

The ASTC is a flexible, high temperature, cloth and insulation composite that is used to protect the hardware located inside the aft skirt of the SRB, which consists of nine layers of insulating materials and is 2.58 inches thick. The ASTC is made up of twenty four segments, which are hand sewn together during installation on the aft skirt, what one can see here.

 

Source: NASA

 

In this report there are some interesting drawings oft the ASTC, which might be helpful during 3D modeling of this detail.

 

 

 

That's why I'm thinking, that the segments should be more curved than in my friend Bill's 3D model (1:72), where they are more flat.

 

Source: shapeways.com (niParts)

 

In my opinion White Strong & Flexible should be a good choise for the 3D print.

 

Now I can only hope, that my friend Joe can come up with a good approach.

[RichO]

Merry Christmas Manfred!!  I hope you and your family have a great time.

[roma847]

Thanks Rich, 

and also for you and your family Merry Christmas. 

[roma847]

Hello everyone,

 

because that just now fits in well, so the ASTCs look like, respectively what remained of them after a launch.

 

Source: trn.trains.com (Route of the Rockets)

 

This great photo from the salvage of the SRBs has been posted by a girlfriend from Papermodelers forum, which was a crucial help in solving one of my last riddles with a strange equipment on the inner walls of the SRB Exhaust Chambers of the MLP.

 

When looking at the circled detail of this photo, I immediately recalled, because this item is strangely wrapped on many photos, as one can see here.

 

Source: NASA

 

Here one can detect a little bit more,

 

Source: NASA

 

and here one can see it under the SRB Aft Skirt,

 

Source: NASA

 

in direct contact with the above circled interface, and both parts are like chalk and cheese.

 

 

But nevertheless the question remains, as to what these devices were used for and whether they existed from the start, or whether they were eventually retrofitted?

BTW, from time to time such ASTC segments even appear in the "Bay", it's hard to believe ...

 

Source: ebay.com

 

So friends, at this point I want to remind you once again of my Christmas decorated MLP from the previous year,

 

 

and wish you all 

[Mustermark]

Merry Christmas Manfred, and also to my regular fellow spectator RichO.

I hope you both have a wonderful Holiday Season and get plenty of time for eating, drinking and model-making!

 

Mark.