TonyGol Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I brought this kit last week and to me its a model of the Mig-21F-13. I will build it sometime in the future. Why do people get uptight about a kit? How many people will say "Thats not correct, wrong shape, too tall, too short, too long and not the right amount of rivets". Ok it may have its little faults but doesnt every model kit have faults. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yury Tepsurkaev Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Is this a language problem? I don't think so. I do understand written English pretty well and I hope that my English although being not so good is still understandable. When I write 'a POS' I mean 'a piece of s**t'. I don't see any contradiction between two my phrases you quoted above. I like real Fishbeds. I agree the Trumpeter's F-13 looks like real F-13 overall. But for me they made too much mistakes in details like panel lines, small intakes etc. That's why I being a rivet counter call Trumpy's Fishbed 'a POS' in comparison with Eduards Fishbed. Edited December 4, 2012 by Yury Tepsurkaev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 How can you (Yury) compare the Trumpeter to the Eduards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yury Tepsurkaev Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 How can you (Yury) compare the Trumpeter to the Eduards? Ooops... Didn't I repeatedly try to explain it throughout the topic? Now I am already not sure that I have no language problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Do Eduards produce a Mig-21F-13? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yury Tepsurkaev Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 No. Eduard produce MF, SMT and BIS. I have their MF and SMT. Of course MF and F-13 are different planes. But I compare only how the two kits close reproduce their real full-metal prototypes. And Eduard's MF is a jewel both in terms of overall shapes and accuracy in detail. Trumpeter's F-13 has pretty good shapes and does looks like F-13 but is VERY inaccurate in detail. I think that people from Trumpeter had never even seen real MiG at close distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 So you agree it looks like a MiG but then you throw out its a POS? Its either a model which looks like a MiG and has a few accuracy issues, or its a POS. It really cant be both. I also cant see how you can compare the two manufactures as its a different aircraft. Now if Eduard did make a 13 then feel free to compare the two. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yury Tepsurkaev Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 So you agree it looks like a MiG but then you throw out its a POS? It looks like a MiG overall. Its outline profile is definitely a MiG silhouette. But its small details such as panel lines, intakes etc are mostly wrong. In terms of detail accuracy it's POS. Now if Eduard did make a 13 then feel free to compare the two. I can compare Eduard FM with real FM, and I can compare Trumeters F-13 with real F-13. Eduard did its kit with the greatest attention to the smallest details. Trumpeter didn't. I see you guys don't try to understand me. Instead you look for occasions to continue this endless game in words. I'm tired. Buy the kit yourself. Compare it with real plane yourself. Judge whether it's a piece of poo-poo or a sweet candy yourself. Have fun. And I wash my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Are there detail differences between a Soviet Bloc manufactured MiG-21F-13 and a Chengdu F-7 in some of these areas? I know the kit claims to be an F-13 but if it was actually based on the Chinese version... ...I'm not saying that this is why they're different, merely asking. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Yury you have totally missed the point. You cant compare it with Eduards as they havent produced a Mig-21F,and you cant compare the other Mig's to the Mig-21F-13. Only one word comes to mind "TWOT" And there ends the lesson for today. Edited December 4, 2012 by TonyGol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yury Tepsurkaev Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Dear Tony, First of all I have to note that we were discussing a kit. Just a piece of plastic. And you can agree or disagree with my point of view on that kit. But you shouldn't have started to discuss me. Tony, a person can tell something that you cannot understand. Or can understand but cannot accept. It does not mean the person is a troll. Sometimes it means you just aren't smart enough to understand or to accept. Edited December 4, 2012 by Yury Tepsurkaev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I agree its a plastic kit from Trumpeter, but what i disagree with is the comparison of the kit with the Eduards MIg21's. They are completely different aircraft and kits. "Tony, a person can tell something that you cannot understand. Or can understand but cannot accept. It does not mean the person is a troll. Sometime it means you just aren't smart enough to understand or to accept." This I do find offensive. To keep the peace I will alter my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Are there detail differences between a Soviet Bloc manufactured MiG-21F-13 and a Chengdu F-7 in some of these areas? I know the kit claims to be an F-13 but if it was actually based on the Chinese version... ...I'm not saying that this is why they're different, merely asking. Wez You never know Wez as you can bet your stash Trumpter looked at a F-7 not a MiG. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Julien, don't tell Kev, he'll want to do a Syrian one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 As there may be a Syrian one I will be doing my one in Israeli markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Guys... you need to relax a little before people start getting into a "spot of bother". Clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Im chilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveH Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Just picked up me F13 from Mike at MJW models (nice having a club member in the business ), looks like a Mig to me......, so Dave's rule one applies, "the less time spent rivet counting, the more time spent modeling" I can see another "diverse pair" post early next year, Mig F13, either in Cuban or Vietnamese markings, paired with Academy's new Phantom or Hasegawa Crusader....I do wish I was decisive..... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Now I don't know that much about the Mig-21, but it seems that Yury does. What I can't quite get to grips with is why comparing the two kits isn't a valid exercise! Taking for example Trumpeter's Lightning 1/32nd F1a. There are many, many errors on this kit, which are well documented. Now then take Echelon's Lightning F6. This is accepted as being the benchmark in terms of accuracy for any Lightning kit. Is it not therefore a valid exercise in saying that the Trumpeter kit has certain inaccuracies, whereas the Echelon kit doesn't? Its important that modellers that DO know their subject chip in with that info. So I'd say to Yury - carry on. Lets have that info. Its what you do or don't do with that information that matters. You can ignore it , or do something about it. I could of course take this argument further by saying that the apple I ate yesterday wasn't as sweet as the orange I ate today.......... (Oh and I'm not sure what a TWOT is, but if someone had been called that where I was brought up, they'd have either ended up with at least a slap or at worst in a flyover at Canning Town!) Not that I'm advocating such violence of course 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenshb Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Not being able to compare two different versions of the same subject from two different manufacturers is the daftest thing I've read on Britmodeller all week. Following that analogy, we can't compare Tamiya's 1:32 Spitfire IX with HobbyBoss' Mk. V in the same scale, neither can we compare Airfix' 1:48 Mk.22 with ICM's Mk. VIII or Academy's Mk. XIV... What Yuri is doing is comparing the Trumpeter kit as a scale representation with Eduard's representation of the same basic type even though they have hardly got a part in common. Most would agree that the Airfix Spitfire 22/24 is a better representation of that type than the Academy Mk. XIV represents the Spitfire XIV. If someone asked for advice, say on an accurate and well detailed 1:72 kit of a naval fighter, the Academy F-8 Crusader would be recommended over the Cyber-Hobby Sea Vixen - no? But apparently, we can't do that... Jens What's a "flyover" - other than something that cars drive over? Edited December 6, 2012 by jenshb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hear Hear. TWOT is a ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Not being able to compare two different versions of the same subject from two different manufacturers is the daftest thing I've read on Britmodeller all week. Give 'em a chance Jens - its only Thursday!! What's a "flyover" - other than something that cars drive over? . Indeed...it ia often rumoured that certain gangsters and east-end low life ended up in the foundations of fly-overs...... particularly along the A13 at Bow ...and beyond. Try digging them up for a post mortem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggers Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I thought the point Yuri was trying to make in terms of comparisons is the following:- Eduard Mig-21 MF is closer (or more accurate) a represntation of a real Mig-21 MF than the Trumpeter Mig-21F-13 is to a real Mig-21F-13. Or to use the analogy Jenshb used The Tamiya Spitfire IX is closer (or more accurate) a representation of a real Spitfire IX than the Trumpeter Spitfire Vb is to a real Spitfire Vb. Not that the Tamiya Spitfire IX is closer to a real Spitfire Vb, that would be just silly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurent Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I do appreciate Yury's "Trumpeter vs reality" post. When I look at the panels, Trumpeter says "rectangle" and reality says "oval". AFAIK these two words aren't synonyms. Is the fact that the panels aren't accurate an important issue or not ? My opinion doesn't matter. Everybody has an opinion and the reader can decide for himself if the issue is important to him or not. However Yury's post is precious because he provides informations and the reader is free to take them in account or not. The guys who just say "I know how a Phantoms is supposed to look like and I can assure you that Academy screwed up their F-4B big time" and the guys who say "who cares if this thing is a millimeter too short or too long... the rivet-counters should get a life... that's not what modelling is about" just give their opinions and no information at all. I don't give a damn about their opinions. It's information that I want and that's what Yury provided. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl J. Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 There has sure been a void in sprue pix save for the small and indistinct IPMS Phillipines website. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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