Kresho Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi ! My name is Kresimir, and, now after I built Pierre Clostermann's Tempest, and after I read in his book Flames in the sky story about another great French fighter pilot - Max Guedj, I would like to build his Mosquito too !! Problem is that I can't find any photo of Max's aircraft. If You could help Me please! I would like to build his 143 squadron Mossie, the last one which he fly. All I know is this: letters was NE - K, and number was PZ 460. Paint scheme is unknown to me. On Youtube I can find Mossie replica, but other planes from 143 squadron was Extra dark sea gray upper and Sky undersurfaces. Is it possible that his aircraft had different paint scheme? Maybe somebody have book with picture? If picture of his plane even exist... And yes, letters on replica (NE-K) are in different order on port and starboard side (K-NE) !? Is it possible that this people who done realy great job made mistake on the end with painting? Sorry for my poor english... Best Regards from Croatia! Kresimir Kucar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Are these of any use: HTH & All the best Andy S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kresho Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thank You Sgt.Squarehead! Schemes which You post me are probably correct, but just try to imagine...after I paint Mosquito in EDSG over and Sky under - then I found picture with Guedj's plane painted in- for example- dark green, ocean gray with medium sea gray! It could be desaster. Thank's anyway! If anybody have some more informations - please help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 And yes, letters on replica (NE-K) are in different order on port and starboard side (K-NE) !? HI Kresimir RAF codes could read read like you wrote, the order was not 'fixed' there are some colour photos of the Banff strike wing, here's one from Etienne du Plessis flickr stream [lots of WW2 colour pics] which shows the starbord side read 'NE-*' same pic, smaller, uncropped. note the difference in colours of panels and paint touch ups. The Commander of Coastal Command Strike Sqn. Gp Capt J W Max Aitken there might be some more from this series, I think I have seen more also the IWM collection http://www.iwm.org.u...s/search?filter[placeString][0]=%22Banff%2C%20Banffshire%2C%20Scotland%2C%20UK%22&query= HTH T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You may find that he did not fly under his "Guedj" name; it was common practice, in the RAF, to give European refugee airmen new names, so that, if captured, they couldn't be blackmailed, by threats against their families, into working for the Germans. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VG 33 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hi Kresimir This is a very nice choice to build a Mosquito dedicated to Mak Guedj. If I remember well his name was given by the French Air Force to the Reserve Officer School at Evreux AB. I have this book about his war until that fate day : January 15, 1945. But there is no picture of NE*K at the time. I suppose the weather in Scotland in January was not good enough to take many pictures outside. Remember that Flight Lieutenant Langley was in the same aircraft and two other Mosquito from 143 Sqn and one each from 235 & 33 failed to return during the same mission. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 here's one from Etienne du Plessis flickr stream [lots of WW2 colour pics] which shows the starbord side read 'NE-*' same pic, smaller, uncropped. note the difference in colours of panels and paint touch ups. That's PZ438 / NE-F. Charles Brown photo, one of several taken showing this aircraft being re-armed.Here's my take on it - Tamiya 1/72nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kresho Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Thank You all guys! Because all pictues from 143 squadron I collect show that Mosquitoes were EDSG with Sky under, I decide to paint model in that scheme. This diorama will be dedicated to Max, and of course, to Flight Lieutenant Langley! Now I can start to paint. Results You will see soon, depends of My free time. So let's get to work, waiting to have this BEAUTIFULL bird in My collection - of mostly British ww2 planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Hi ! My name is Kresimir, and, now after I built Pierre Clostermann's Tempest, and after I read in his book Flames in the sky story about another great French fighter pilot - Max Guedj, I would like to build his Mosquito too !! Problem is that I can't find any photo of Max's aircraft. If You could help Me please! I would like to build his 143 squadron Mossie, the last one which he fly. All I know is this: letters was NE - K, and number was PZ 460. Paint scheme is unknown to me. On Youtube I can find Mossie replica, but other planes from 143 squadron was Extra dark sea gray upper and Sky undersurfaces. Is it possible that his aircraft had different paint scheme? Maybe somebody have book with picture? If picture of his plane even exist... And yes, letters on replica (NE-K) are in different order on port and starboard side (K-NE) !? Is it possible that this people who done realy great job made mistake on the end with painting? Sorry for my poor english... Best Regards from Croatia! Kresimir Kucar Fantastic replica Mosquito. Had me fooled in the opening shots. Thought it was a real one. Congratulations to all involved. Do you know what engines it has? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kresho Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Tim! It has Continental geared turbo-supercharged fuel-injected horizontally opposed 520C, d-rated to 300 hp, more pictures and info's You can find on this page: http://bogaert.jimdo.com/ And, of course, MY Mossie is 1/48 Tamiya- Kresho one, with real 1600 hp Rolls Royce Merlin engine! ! Edited October 6, 2012 by Kresho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kresho Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Dear Mr Kucar, (yes, it's me, Kresho) Unfortunately I have not been able to find a photograph of PZ460 (NE-K), which was in service with 143 Squadron between 4 December 1944 and 15 January 1945. The basic camouflage scheme for Coastal Command Mosquito fighter bombers at that time was Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive pattern on the upper surfaces. However, in January or February 1945 the colour and position of 143 Squadron’s code letters changed from Sky positioned above the wing (as seen on HR414 in January 1945) to black with yellow outline positioned either side of the roundel (as seen on PZ438 on 6 February 1945). A different camouflage scheme of Extra Dark Sea Grey upper surfaces and Sky under surfaces was introduced for Coastal Command Mosquitoes in March 1945 but this would not have applied to PZ460 which was lost two months before that date. I hope this will help with your model of Max Guedj’s aircraft. Kind regards, Gordon Leith Curator Department of Research & Information Services (RAF) And, on the end, a 180 degrees change! Now I'm totaly confused - Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green? I'm a litlle boring now, I know... Thank You Guys anyway for Yours effort! And I found an interesting link (to me): http://fighters.foru...to-de-max-guedj Edited October 11, 2012 by Kresho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdenek Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Hi to all, my name is Zdenek and I have been interesting about DH Mosquito for many years. Several years ago my brother bought me VCR cassette with part of movie,showing take off of Mosquitoes of Banff Strike Wing, "Mosquitoes Deadly Norwegian Attack". Carefuly slowing movie I resolved code letters on the second taking off Mosquito - " MA " in front of port side roundel and of course W//C badge on port side of the nose. Something worse quality movie is : http://www.youtube.c...=-cb6SmK_c2g. At this version of movie only W/C badge can be resolved,much better is to watch VCR cassette. According to me it is worth to find serial of this G/Capt Max Aitken ´s aircraft and to complete whole camouflage . Sincerely Zdenek There are many questions about photographed aircrafts. Edited October 21, 2012 by zdenek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kari Lumppio Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hello! This post is somewhat off-topic as it is about Max Aitken's Mosquito and triggered by the excellent post by Zdenek above. Ever since reading Andy Bird's excellent A Separate Little War I have wanted to see photo Aitken's Mossie HR366 MA-01. The film linked by Zdenek provided finally one and is interesting as the reported "01" is missing. Not applied yet at the time of filming? Made just an internet search for Aitken and Mosquito and found this thread at rafcommands -forum: http://www.rafcomman...mID6/10957.html Seems Andy Bird has photo of MA-01. It was not published at least in my copy of the book. Interesting to know if the "01" and possible hyphen too were painted on the plane. Cheers, Kari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The colour scheme of Medium Sea Grey overall, with Dark Green disruptive pattern on the uppersurfaces, was the standard Mosquito fighter camouflage, more familiar perhaps in the night fighter role but also used by the light day fighterbombers of 2nd TAF. It was commonly used by Coastal Command Mosquitos. I'm a little surprised to see so late a date as March 1945 for the EDSG/Sky scheme, as it seems to have been widely deployed particularly on Beaufighters. I'd have expected it to have been covered by AP 2656A Vol 1 Section 6 AL8 of October 1944, which calls for all Coastal aircraft to have EDSG uppersurfaces except PR, Met, ASR and "other special duties aircraft". This does call for white undersides rather than Sky, which opens an area of doubt. I do wonder whether the March instruction could have been a formalising of actual practice rather than an introduction of a new scheme? Alternatively, do we only have later dates than March 1945 for aircraft in this scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kresho Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) Graham! You wrote: The colour scheme of Medium Sea Grey overall, with Dark Green disruptive pattern on the uppersurfaces, was the standard Mosquito fighter camouflage, more familiar perhaps in the night fighter role but also used by the light day fighterbombers of 2nd TAF. It was commonly used by Coastal Command Mosquitos. I'm a little surprised to see so late a date as March 1945 for the EDSG/Sky scheme, as it seems to have been widely deployed particularly on Beaufighters. I'd have expected it to have been covered by AP 2656A Vol 1 Section 6 AL8 of October 1944, which calls for all Coastal aircraft to have EDSG uppersurfaces except PR, Met, ASR and "other special duties aircraft". This does call for white undersides rather than Sky, which opens an area of doubt. I do wonder whether the March instruction could have been a formalising of actual practice rather than an introduction of a new scheme? Alternatively, do we only have later dates than March 1945 for aircraft in this scheme? After a few aditional question I send to mr. Gordon Leith, he send to me this answer: Dear Kresimir, Thank you for your reply and attached photographs. When Mosquito fighter bombers first came into service with Coastal Command squadrons in early 1944 they would have been painted in the standard night fighter colour scheme of Medium Sea Grey and Dark Green upper surfaces and Medium Sea Grey undersurfaces . An order changing this to Extra Dark Sea Grey upper surfaces and spinners and Sky undersurfaces was issued in March 1944. However, the Medium Sea Grey/Dark Green scheme appears to have been retained until mid-1944 by some aircraft. In about April 1945 the Medium Sea Grey/ Dark Green reappeared on some Coastal Command Mosqitoes . At the time when Max Guedj’s aircraft PZ460 (NE-K) was in service with 143 Squadron (December 1944-January 1945) I should have said that it is more likely to have been painted in the Extra Dark Sea Grey/Sky scheme than the Medium Sea Grey/Dark Green scheme, but in the absence of any photographs it is difficult to be certain! Kind regards, Gordon Leith Curator Department of Research & Information Services [email protected] I also find this picture - which is approvement that Mosies WAS EDSG on uppersurfaces... I belive undersurfaces was Sky. Spinners are glossy, like they are on Troy Smith's photo, probably they are red. And it was before 15 January 1945 because 'Maurice' Max Guedj is alive (he lost his life in action together with Flight Lieutenant Langley on 15 January 1945). My Mossie will be definitively EDSG over and Sky under. Spinners...probably yellow... Edited October 24, 2012 by Kresho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdenek Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) This is address of better resolution movie showing "MA" Mosquito /HR366 ????/. The movie would be stopped at time about 7 min 36 sec. ]]Of course it requires some skill and luck. Sincerely zdenek Edited November 4, 2012 by zdenek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The original Kit Builder Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I found this thread whilst looking in to coastal mossie colours. I am planning to build the Tamiya 1/48 kit in these colours and have noticed that Tamiya call for deck teak undersides, despite the presence of "sky" in their range. This got me thinking about the old Airfix kit, which required their "parchment" to be used on the undersides, even though they also had a sky in their range. Taking this in to account, is it possible that the undersides of coastal mosquitoes were actually something other than "Sky"? The apparent coloration in the photo's a the top of this thread look more like a parchment or teak-ish hue than what I've come to expect from "Sky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I found this thread whilst looking in to coastal mossie colours. I am planning to build the Tamiya 1/48 kit in these colours and have noticed that Tamiya call for deck teak undersides, despite the presence of "sky" in their range. This got me thinking about the old Airfix kit, which required their "parchment" to be used on the undersides, even though they also had a sky in their range. Taking this in to account, is it possible that the undersides of coastal mosquitoes were actually something other than "Sky"? The apparent coloration in the photo's a the top of this thread look more like a parchment or teak-ish hue than what I've come to expect from "Sky". It seems that Mossies were camouflages at squadron level and that only the Extra Dark Sea Grey was painted on, leaving the undersides Medium Sea Grey. As in the pic above. They were delivered in Night Fighter camo of Medium Sea Grey and Dark Green. As the war dragged to an end, this camo type was used more by Banff Strike Wing. Ref photos from March to May 1945. So its the other way arround from what the RAF guy is describing. Bengt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I found this thread whilst looking in to coastal mossie colours. I am planning to build the Tamiya 1/48 kit in these colours and have noticed that Tamiya call for deck teak undersides, despite the presence of "sky" in their range. This got me thinking about the old Airfix kit, which required their "parchment" to be used on the undersides, even though they also had a sky in their range. Taking this in to account, is it possible that the undersides of coastal mosquitoes were actually something other than "Sky"? The apparent coloration in the photo's a the top of this thread look more like a parchment or teak-ish hue than what I've come to expect from "Sky". Sky is a subtle colour that can appear off-white or yellowish in colour photographs and tended to chalk towards greyish. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Sky is a subtle colour that can appear off-white or yellowish in colour photographs and tended to chalk towards greyish. Nick Have to correct my self a bit. Some Banff Mosquitos seemed to have been camouflaged at squadron level, where only the EDSG was painted on the aircraft. Bengt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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