• Announcements

    • Mike

      DDoS and Brute Force Attacks   09/18/2016

      From the day following upgrade to the new forum software, 15th Sept until until the 19th, we were under a concerted attack by a person or persons using a number of 'bots and other people's Proxy networks to carry out what is called a Distributed Denial of Service attack, which is a method by which these 'bots submit thousands of requests to the website per second to overload the server and bring the site to its knees.  While this was going on, they were also making Brute Force attacks on our remote communications port to try and breach the server so they could do anything from format the hard drives to change ownership of the site, and bombarding the mailserver with similar bogus requests, some of which left some rather telling details behind.  This was followed up a couple of days later with a further attack that left more data to sift through, which we have passed on to our IT forensics people.On the advice of our Lawyer and fellow member JohnT, we yesterday informed the National Crime Agency and requested their assistance with the matter, and in an ongoing dialogue with them to find the culprits, so we are allowing them access to the server and its logs.    We don't believe that this is a random attack on balance, but for 5 days and a further evening we had to put up with some disturbance and interruption to the usually fast response of the website as we are seeing now that the attack has ended.  We will prevail, and don't worry about it.  We were the target, and these people will not win.  Karma will catch up with them   Mike, Greg, Dave & Julien.
Rev.Light

Finnish aircraft of World War II

29 posts in this topic

I am interested in the Finnish plight in WWII. I find their plucky defense of their homeland during the early war years both admiral and interesting. Just becuase they found themselves on the 'wrong side' for most of the war just goes to show that the conflict was not as 'black and white' as many people would have you believe. The phrase 'My enemy is your enemy' comes to mind alot.

Anyway, I would like to model as many aircraft operated by the Fins as I can. Is there a decal set and a definatitve list of types?

Let me start them of:

Brewster Buffalo

Fokker DXXI

Polikarpov i-15, i-153, i-16?

Moran Saulnier somthing or other

Blenhiem

Gauntlet?

Gladiator?

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They also received German equipment such as the Ju-88 Fieslet Storch and Me109.

Before they allied with the Germans they also received Lysanders and Ansons from the UK.

They were also masters of recycling enemy crashed types such as the DB-3 (not DC 3!) and LAGG 3's and other Soviet types that I have a mental block with at the moment.

There are whole books out there on this subject. If you are a member of IPMS then IPMS Finland is a treasure trove of information.

Trevor

Edited by Max Headroom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, both the Winter War, the Continuation War and right up till the end of WWII.

They operated many types, some of which were captured, both from the Russians and French types passed on by the Nazi's.

Edited by Rev.Light

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Your post reminded me of some nice sets of decals I got by a company that specialises in WW2 Finnish aircraft. They are called Inscale. They are available at Hannants and Flightdecs.

In addition to the list above, they seemed to have made extensive use of captured Soviet aircraft. Decals are available for the P40M/N, Pe-2, Il-4 and Tu-2.

Cheers

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I want to keep this cheap(ish) as I have to cover a lot of aircraft types. So I will have to do some scratch building on top of basic kits, etc, rather than splashing out on expensive exotica. Especially with all the aftermarket decals I am going to have to source.

I have just done a PM (?) Fokker DXXI, which was only £4, but the kit is pretty basic and is of the Dutch version, even though the box are shows a Finnish one with Skis. The skis were there but precious little else. The canopy was horrible and cockpit detail was missing almost entirely. I have another so might do it again and actually fit the Skis this time!

I have on my bench an i-153 and a i16, one is an old Smer and the other an ICM. I will do both of those as Finnish captured a/c. I will have to source decals for the i-16 though.

Next, I am going to have to tackle the Brewster. Basing it on the old Airfix kit for want of any other at reasonable cost. What changes will be required for the Finnish version? I know they plated over the lower window, and the roll-over bar is missing in the cockpit. Removal of the Arrester hook? There was something about the exhaust stubs/engine? and tail cone?

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the Hurricane in your list of Finnish aircraft - there's a remarkably original airframe in an aviation museum there so I presume it saw front line service. At risk of extending your list even further, Finland was due to receive a number of Blackburn Rocs but the aircraft were never delivered. They did, however, wear the white circle marking as the basis for the Finnish national marking...but I'm guessing that's a stretch too far for your build list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested in the Finnish plight in WWII. I find their plucky defense of their homeland during the early war years both admiral and interesting. Just becuase they found themselves on the 'wrong side' for most of the war just goes to show that the conflict was not as 'black and white' as many people would have you believe. The phrase 'My enemy is your enemy' comes to mind alot.

Anyway, I would like to model as many aircraft operated by the Fins as I can. Is there a decal set and a definatitve list of types?

Let me start them of:

Brewster Buffalo

Fokker DXXI

Polikarpov i-15, i-153, i-16?

Moran Saulnier somthing or other

Blenhiem

Gauntlet?

Gladiator?

Cheers

HI

add to that

Gloster Gamecock

Bristol Bulldog

MS 406/410, some later re-engined with captured Russion Klimov engines to become Morko Moranes

Curtiss Hawk 75

Caudron C-714

Dornier Do-17

There was also the plans for a Domestic version of the Buffalo, the Humu,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VL_Humu

and also the VL Pyorremyrsky, http://en.wikipedia....L_Pyörremyrsky

both of which still exist at the Airforce Musuem at Tikkakoski

http://www.airforcemuseum.fi/

http://en.wikipedia....Central_Finland

as stated, Inscale are the best bet for decals.

a couple of years ago there was a Finnish AF group build

http://www.britmodel...p?showforum=284

check the references

http://www.britmodel...showtopic=45593

I posted a load of links and info on colours.

note, this is the current listing of Inscale decals

http://www.kuivalain...manufacturer=81

If you click the decals it will show you what schemes are on the sheets.

The Finns are proud of their wartime actions, there are war memorials in most towns, and there is a lot of interest so a lot of books have been published.

The best for individual types are "Suomen Ilmavoimat Historia"

Not sure what is still available but if you google "Suomen Ilmavoimat Historia pdf" you can find scans of older volumes on ebooke for example.

I cannot stress how useful these are, basically they are photo albums, captioned in Finnish and English, with profiles at the end.

this site http://www.pienoismallit.net/info/

is a Finnish modellers site

Pienoismallit.net is the most popular modeling website in Finland. It's an independent non-commercial online community for all Finnish-speaking scale modelers.

The site is created and administered by Tomi Mynttinen.

Pienoismallit means scale models in Finnish.

You can use google translate, but in the group build there are links to some walkrounds, and builds, and most Finns speak english, so you can always get in touch some Finnish modellers.

There are a few Finnish members here as well.

HTH

T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I want to keep this cheap(ish) as I have to cover a lot of aircraft types. So I will have to do some scratch building on top of basic kits, etc, rather than splashing out on expensive exotica. Especially with all the aftermarket decals I am going to have to source.

Well, modelling skill and research are the two essential components but you have to be prepared to spend some money to get a worthwhile result. After travelling in Finland, I was similarly motivated to do some more Finns........

If you are after books it's hard to go past what's recommended above - The best for individual types are "Suomen Ilmavoimat Historia" They are being sold off at the moment as KS is retiring. Here's his email sent out a while ago........

As I have retired from the publishing business, I am selling off the remaining stocks of my books with 60-70 % discount.

Finnish Air Force History series (B5 250x175 mm, card covers) at 10 euros apiece (rrp 24-32 euros).

Finnish Air Force series (A4 297x210 mm, hard covers) at 15 euros apiece (rrp 49 euros).

Plus p&p at cost.

Payment by Paypal or in EU, bank transfer.

All books are bi-lingual, Finnish and English.

More information here

www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman

Best regards

Kari Stenman

Kari Stenman [kari.stenman@kolumbus.fi]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your Reverence,

A few more links for you to pursue and peruse, these are about the Swedish contribution to Finland during the Winter War:

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/gladiator_sweden.htm

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/f19-1.htm

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/flygvapenmuseum-2.htm

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/sweden_f19.htm

and then a kit review with a lot more information:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jjuvonen/planes/gladiator.html

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234906925

You are embarking on a lengthy and fascinating project involving a wide range of aircraft, just remember in ten years that you started doing this for pleasure!

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hannants also carries a series of decals from a company called Galdecal, which covers seemingly every Finnish-operated aircraft from WW1 era to present. Many are odd or one-off types, but the sheer breadth of aircraft types is worth checking out. (They also do sheets of roundels, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hurricanes the Finns got I "think" were the cloth winged versions. I don't know of an inexpensive source for one of those in 1/72, so you'll likely have to go for a limited production kit to get one.

Other types that can be added to the list:

Fokker C. X dive bomber

Do 17Z-3

Me-109G-2

Douglas DC-2 (used as a VIP transport)

Fokker F. VIIa (I have NO idea if a kit even exists of that)

Me-109 G6 (some had the R6 cannon packs)

Hanriot HD.232 (Azur makes one, complete with Finnish markings)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A listing of Finnish aircraft in the Winter and Continuation Wars. Any one have additions?

Aero A-32 - AE

Airspeed Envoy – EV

Avro Anson – AN

Beechcraft 19 - BC

Beriev – VV

Blackburn Rippon II - RI

Brewster B-239 –BW

Bristol Blenheim – BL

Bristol Bulldog - BU

Caudron – CA

Cessna C-37 - CE

Curtiss 75A Hawk – CU

Curtis P-40M - KH

De Haviland D.H. 89A (code unknown)

De Havilland Moth – MO

Dessoutter Mk II - DS

Dornier Do-17 – DO

Dornier Do- 22 – DR

Douglas DC-2 – DC

Fairchild 24J - FD

Focke Wulf Fw 44 – SZ

Focke Wulf 58 - FH

Fiat G. 50 - Mistakenly coded SA changed quickly to FA

Fiesler Fi 156C- ST

Fokker F. Vii - FE

Fokker C.X – FK

Fokker C.VE- FO

Fokker DXXI – FR

Fokker F. VII / F. VIII – FE

Gloster Gamecock - GA

Gloster Gauntles – GT

Gloster Galdiator - GL

Hanriot 232 – HT

Hawker Hart (Sweedish Volunteers F. 19)

Hawker Hurricane - HU which was cahnged to HC

Hansa IVL – IL

Heinkel He 59 - Hl

Heinkel He 115C - HE

Ilyushin DB-3 – DB

Ilyushin DB-3F - DF

Jaktfalk - JF

Junkers F. 13 34/ K.43 – JU

Junkers JU-88 – JK

Koolhoven FK 52 – KO

Klemm L 25 (code unknown0

Lagg- LA

Letov – SM

MBR-2 - VV

Messerschnitt Bf-109 – MT

M.S. 406 – MS

NKK Hover MF 11 - NK

Petliakov Pe-2 – PE

Piper (Taylor) J-2 Cub (code unknown)

Polikarpov (biplane) - VH changed to IT

Polikarpos I-15bis – IH

Polikarpov I-16 - IR

Polikarpov U-2 - VU

Roc (Never delivered, but coded) RO

Sch-2 – AV

Smolik 218A – SM

Yaylorcraft BC-12D – (Code unkown)

Tiuski - TU

Tupolev SB-2 – SB

UTI-4 - UT

VL Humu - HM

VL Kotka - KA

VL Myrsky – MY

VL Pyry – PY

VL Sääski – SH

VL Tuisku - TU

VL Viima – VI

Waco YKS-7 / ZQC-6 (Code Unknown)

Westland Lysander - LY

Edited by Steven Eisenman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hurricanes the Finns got I "think" were the cloth winged versions.

No, I think most were metal winged, they got 12 in 1940. I think there is debate over the exact amounts of each.

The preserved Hurricane is definately metal winged!

if you look very carefully at the instructions here http://www.kuivalain...id_product=3520

one is fabric winged, the others have metal wings.

Later they salvaged some down VVS planes, making one flyable MkII later on from a couple of these.

cheers

T

Edited by Troy Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What have I done - an exhaustive list.

I will start with the favourites - i.e. front line fighters, where there are enough examples of which to equip a whole squadron. Followed by some of the more interesting close support/ground attack varients. Individual captured airframes can wait for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello!

"Tieto lisää tuskaa" translates more or less like "knowledge increases pain". Perhaps that is why I seldom finish anything Finnish Air Force. Every plane was an individual and many times there is information for every single one if you dig deep enough. Read archive, museum etc. primary data research many times.

It might be easier to just try to buy reasonable FinnAF plane kits which come with reasonable decals right away and build them as is? For example couple of years ago in Finland there was sold Revell 1/72 Curtiss, Hurricane, Brewster (others?) with good quality FinnAF decals (Cartograph?). One can still see them here and there. I don't know if they were sold other places of Europe (decals included swastikas).

Model Shop Kuivalainen ( http://www.kuivalainen.biz ) has already been mentioned in this thread. I am pretty sure that Martti can help you with your purchases finding even the rarer kits and decals etc. InScale has decals (some say somewhat tricky to apply) with very good instructions even if they are not in colour. In most cases the InScale instructions have been proved to be more correct than reference books. GalDecals and AML have also made Finnish AF decals.

Then if and when you have a particular question about a marking or camo or something do post either here (I will NOT promise to answer all or even most of them) or one very nice site ( http://www.pienoismallit.net ). Copypaste the address to for example translate.google.com and you will get quite understandable translation from Finnish to English. Register as an user and start asking at the forum there. You would not be the first English language poster even if majority is in Finnish.

Special Hobby Myrsky in 1/72 might be a good starting point. Have not built mine (surprise...) but it should look the part when finished without any aftermarket thingies. For bombers perhaps Hasegawa or Revell (I have not the latter one yet) 1/72 Ju 88 A-4? Most of other types/kits need more work. In my opinion.

Happy modelling,

Kari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had heard, that one Blackburn Skua was shipped to Finland during the winter war.

modelldoc

I didn't think the Finns got Skuas. They almost got Rocs, which were given Finnish numbers and had the white discs where the Hakaristi would be applied (no national markings during transit flights). The aircraft were collected in Scotland, but the end of the war prevented them flying out. There's a photo here, but be careful as it is in the context of a 'counterfactual' history webpage. http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=185434&page=29

If you're serious about Finnish aviation, I'd echo the above comments and add my recommendation of Kari Stenman's books- they include superb photographs, many not available anywhere else. The two general histories (1918-1928 and 1929-1941) are excellent. The individual aircraft histories are perfect for modelers, but the individual squadron histories are probably aimed more at domestic-market aviation enthusiasts (beautiful photographs none the less!)

The English is good enough to follow in most of them too. http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman/

Will

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AZ Models do a kit of the Hurricane in Finnish markings, I have one. Its a MKI? with a twin blade prop.

The Galdecal sheets aren't bad as they offer a number of different types on each sheet. I have a number of these and one day will try and build most aircraft on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A year or two ago, Hasegawa released a series of their kits with Finnish markings included - These included the Buffalo, Ju88 and Hurricane. In Australia, at least, they were relatively cheap compared to most Hasegawa issues. Not sure if you can pick them up at a reasonable price where you are now.

Regards

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for information about the Blackburn Roc, it's nearly the same. I think it's true, because the picture was used official.

Nice story - good information - thanks

modelldoc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now