28 replies to this topic

[Rev.Light]

I am interested in the Finnish plight in WWII. I find their plucky defense of their homeland during the early war years both admiral and interesting. Just becuase they found themselves on the 'wrong side' for most of the war just goes to show that the conflict was not as 'black and white' as many people would have you believe. The phrase 'My enemy is your enemy' comes to mind alot.

Anyway, I would like to model as many aircraft operated by the Fins as I can. Is there a decal set and a definatitve list of types?

Let me start them of:

Brewster Buffalo
Fokker DXXI
Polikarpov i-15, i-153, i-16?
Moran Saulnier somthing or other
Blenhiem
Gauntlet?
Gladiator?

Cheers

[Mxyzptlk]

The Wikipedia page mentions a few Hurricanes, the Morane Saulnier MS 406, Fiat G50 and Curtiss Hawk 75's. Not sure what time frame you are looking at...

http://en.m.wikipedi...nnish_Air_Force

[Max Headroom]

They also received German equipment such as the Ju-88 Fieslet Storch and Me109.

Before they allied with the Germans they also received Lysanders and Ansons from the UK.

They were also masters of recycling enemy crashed types such as the DB-3 (not DC 3!) and LAGG 3's and other Soviet types that I have a mental block with at the moment.

There are whole books out there on this subject. If you are a member of IPMS then IPMS Finland is a treasure trove of information.

Trevor

Edited by Max Headroom, 12 September 2012 - 07:47 AM.

[Rev.Light]

Well, both the Winter War, the Continuation War and right up till the end of WWII.

They operated many types, some of which were captured, both from the Russians and French types passed on by the Nazi's.

Edited by Rev.Light, 12 September 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[Michael louey]

Hi,

Your post reminded me of some nice sets of decals I got by a company that specialises in WW2 Finnish aircraft. They are called Inscale. They are available at Hannants and Flightdecs.

In addition to the list above, they seemed to have made extensive use of captured Soviet aircraft. Decals are available for the P40M/N, Pe-2, Il-4 and Tu-2.

Cheers

Michael

[Rev.Light]

This sould be the start of something.....

[Veltro]

You also want the VL Myrsky.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VL_Myrsky

[Rev.Light]

Okay, I want to keep this cheap(ish) as I have to cover a lot of aircraft types. So I will have to do some scratch building on top of basic kits, etc, rather than splashing out on expensive exotica. Especially with all the aftermarket decals I am going to have to source.

I have just done a PM (?) Fokker DXXI, which was only £4, but the kit is pretty basic and is of the Dutch version, even though the box are shows a Finnish one with Skis. The skis were there but precious little else. The canopy was horrible and cockpit detail was missing almost entirely. I have another so might do it again and actually fit the Skis this time!

I have on my bench an i-153 and a i16, one is an old Smer and the other an ICM. I will do both of those as Finnish captured a/c. I will have to source decals for the i-16 though.

Next, I am going to have to tackle the Brewster. Basing it on the old Airfix kit for want of any other at reasonable cost. What changes will be required for the Finnish version? I know they plated over the lower window, and the roll-over bar is missing in the cockpit. Removal of the Arrester hook? There was something about the exhaust stubs/engine? and tail cone?

Cheers

[Rev.Light]

In answer to my own question:

http://www.modelingm...sn/bakerf2a.htm

[mhaselden]

I don't see the Hurricane in your list of Finnish aircraft - there's a remarkably original airframe in an aviation museum there so I presume it saw front line service. At risk of extending your list even further, Finland was due to receive a number of Blackburn Rocs but the aircraft were never delivered. They did, however, wear the white circle marking as the basis for the Finnish national marking...but I'm guessing that's a stretch too far for your build list.

[Troy Smith]

I am interested in the Finnish plight in WWII. I find their plucky defense of their homeland during the early war years both admiral and interesting. Just becuase they found themselves on the 'wrong side' for most of the war just goes to show that the conflict was not as 'black and white' as many people would have you believe. The phrase 'My enemy is your enemy' comes to mind alot.

Anyway, I would like to model as many aircraft operated by the Fins as I can. Is there a decal set and a definatitve list of types?

Let me start them of:

Brewster Buffalo
Fokker DXXI
Polikarpov i-15, i-153, i-16?
Moran Saulnier somthing or other
Blenhiem
Gauntlet?
Gladiator?

Cheers

HI

add to that

Gloster Gamecock
Bristol Bulldog
MS 406/410, some later re-engined with captured Russion Klimov engines to become Morko Moranes
Curtiss Hawk 75
Caudron C-714
Dornier Do-17

There was also the plans for a Domestic version of the Buffalo, the Humu,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VL_Humu
and also the VL Pyorremyrsky, http://en.wikipedia....L_Pyörremyrsky
both of which still exist at the Airforce Musuem at Tikkakoski
http://www.airforcemuseum.fi/
http://en.wikipedia....Central_Finland



as stated, Inscale are the best bet for decals.

a couple of years ago there was a Finnish AF group build
http://www.britmodel...p?showforum=284

check the references
http://www.britmodel...showtopic=45593

I posted a load of links and info on colours.

note, this is the current listing of Inscale decals
http://www.kuivalain...manufacturer=81

If you click the decals it will show you what schemes are on the sheets.

The Finns are proud of their wartime actions, there are war memorials in most towns, and there is a lot of interest so a lot of books have been published.
The best for individual types are "Suomen Ilmavoimat Historia"

Not sure what is still available but if you google "Suomen Ilmavoimat Historia pdf" you can find scans of older volumes on ebooke for example.
I cannot stress how useful these are, basically they are photo albums, captioned in Finnish and English, with profiles at the end.

this site http://www.pienoismallit.net/info/
is a Finnish modellers site

Pienoismallit.net is the most popular modeling website in Finland. It's an independent non-commercial online community for all Finnish-speaking scale modelers.
The site is created and administered by Tomi Mynttinen.
Pienoismallit means scale models in Finnish.

You can use google translate, but in the group build there are links to some walkrounds, and builds, and most Finns speak english, so you can always get in touch some Finnish modellers.
There are a few Finnish members here as well.

HTH
T

[Ed Russell]

I want to keep this cheap(ish) as I have to cover a lot of aircraft types. So I will have to do some scratch building on top of basic kits, etc, rather than splashing out on expensive exotica. Especially with all the aftermarket decals I am going to have to source.

Well, modelling skill and research are the two essential components but you have to be prepared to spend some money to get a worthwhile result. After travelling in Finland, I was similarly motivated to do some more Finns........

If you are after books it's hard to go past what's recommended above - The best for individual types are "Suomen Ilmavoimat Historia" They are being sold off at the moment as KS is retiring. Here's his email sent out a while ago........


As I have retired from the publishing business, I am selling off the remaining stocks of my books with 60-70 % discount.

Finnish Air Force History series (B5 250x175 mm, card covers) at 10 euros apiece (rrp 24-32 euros).
Finnish Air Force series (A4 297x210 mm, hard covers) at 15 euros apiece (rrp 49 euros).

Plus p&p at cost.

Payment by Paypal or in EU, bank transfer.

All books are bi-lingual, Finnish and English.

More information here

www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman

Best regards

Kari Stenman

Kari Stenman [kari.stenman@kolumbus.fi]

[sanguin]

Your Reverence,
A few more links for you to pursue and peruse, these are about the Swedish contribution to Finland during the Winter War:
http://surfcity.kund...ator_sweden.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/f19-1.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~f...penmuseum-2.htm
http://surfcity.kund.../sweden_f19.htm

and then a kit review with a lot more information:
http://koti.mbnet.fi.../gladiator.html
http://www.britmodel...topic=234906925

You are embarking on a lengthy and fascinating project involving a wide range of aircraft, just remember in ten years that you started doing this for pleasure!
John

[thorfinn]

Hannants also carries a series of decals from a company called Galdecal, which covers seemingly every Finnish-operated aircraft from WW1 era to present. Many are odd or one-off types, but the sheer breadth of aircraft types is worth checking out. (They also do sheets of roundels, etc.)

[JMChladek]

The Hurricanes the Finns got I "think" were the cloth winged versions. I don't know of an inexpensive source for one of those in 1/72, so you'll likely have to go for a limited production kit to get one.

Other types that can be added to the list:

Fokker C. X dive bomber
Do 17Z-3
Me-109G-2
Douglas DC-2 (used as a VIP transport)
Fokker F. VIIa (I have NO idea if a kit even exists of that)
Me-109 G6 (some had the R6 cannon packs)
Hanriot HD.232 (Azur makes one, complete with Finnish markings)

[Steven Eisenman]

A listing of Finnish aircraft in the Winter and Continuation Wars. Any one have additions?

Aero A-32 - AE
Airspeed Envoy – EV
Avro Anson – AN
Beechcraft 19 - BC
Beriev – VV
Blackburn Rippon II - RI
Brewster B-239 –BW
Bristol Blenheim – BL
Bristol Bulldog - BU
Caudron – CA
Cessna C-37 - CE
Curtiss 75A Hawk – CU
Curtis P-40M - KH
De Haviland D.H. 89A (code unknown)
De Havilland Moth – MO
Dessoutter Mk II - DS
Dornier Do-17 – DO
Dornier Do- 22 – DR
Douglas DC-2 – DC
Fairchild 24J - FD
Focke Wulf Fw 44 – SZ
Focke Wulf 58 - FH
Fiat G. 50 - Mistakenly coded SA changed quickly to FA
Fiesler Fi 156C- ST
Fokker F. Vii - FE
Fokker C.X – FK
Fokker C.VE- FO
Fokker DXXI – FR
Fokker F. VII / F. VIII – FE
Gloster Gamecock - GA
Gloster Gauntles – GT
Gloster Galdiator - GL
Hanriot 232 – HT
Hawker Hart (Sweedish Volunteers F. 19)
Hawker Hurricane - HU which was cahnged to HC
Hansa IVL – IL
Heinkel He 59 - Hl
Heinkel He 115C - HE
Ilyushin DB-3 – DB
Ilyushin DB-3F - DF
Jaktfalk - JF
Junkers F. 13 34/ K.43 – JU
Junkers JU-88 – JK
Koolhoven FK 52 – KO
Klemm L 25 (code unknown0
Lagg- LA
Letov – SM
MBR-2 - VV
Messerschnitt Bf-109 – MT
M.S. 406 – MS
NKK Hover MF 11 - NK
Petliakov Pe-2 – PE
Piper (Taylor) J-2 Cub (code unknown)
Polikarpov (biplane) - VH changed to IT
Polikarpos I-15bis – IH
Polikarpov I-16 - IR
Polikarpov U-2 - VU
Roc (Never delivered, but coded) RO
Sch-2 – AV
Smolik 218A – SM
Yaylorcraft BC-12D – (Code unkown)
Tiuski - TU
Tupolev SB-2 – SB
UTI-4 - UT
VL Humu - HM
VL Kotka - KA
VL Myrsky – MY
VL Pyry – PY
VL Sääski – SH
VL Tuisku - TU
VL Viima – VI
Waco YKS-7 / ZQC-6 (Code Unknown)
Westland Lysander - LY

Edited by Steven Eisenman, 13 September 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Troy Smith]

The Hurricanes the Finns got I "think" were the cloth winged versions.

No, I think most were metal winged, they got 12 in 1940. I think there is debate over the exact amounts of each.
The preserved Hurricane is definately metal winged!

if you look very carefully at the instructions here http://www.kuivalain...id_product=3520
one is fabric winged, the others have metal wings.

Later they salvaged some down VVS planes, making one flyable MkII later on from a couple of these.

cheers
T

Edited by Troy Smith, 12 September 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[Rev.Light]

What have I done - an exhaustive list.

I will start with the favourites - i.e. front line fighters, where there are enough examples of which to equip a whole squadron. Followed by some of the more interesting close support/ground attack varients. Individual captured airframes can wait for a while.

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

"Tieto lisää tuskaa" translates more or less like "knowledge increases pain". Perhaps that is why I seldom finish anything Finnish Air Force. Every plane was an individual and many times there is information for every single one if you dig deep enough. Read archive, museum etc. primary data research many times.

It might be easier to just try to buy reasonable FinnAF plane kits which come with reasonable decals right away and build them as is? For example couple of years ago in Finland there was sold Revell 1/72 Curtiss, Hurricane, Brewster (others?) with good quality FinnAF decals (Cartograph?). One can still see them here and there. I don't know if they were sold other places of Europe (decals included swastikas).

Model Shop Kuivalainen ( http://www.kuivalainen.biz ) has already been mentioned in this thread. I am pretty sure that Martti can help you with your purchases finding even the rarer kits and decals etc. InScale has decals (some say somewhat tricky to apply) with very good instructions even if they are not in colour. In most cases the InScale instructions have been proved to be more correct than reference books. GalDecals and AML have also made Finnish AF decals.

Then if and when you have a particular question about a marking or camo or something do post either here (I will NOT promise to answer all or even most of them) or one very nice site ( http://www.pienoismallit.net ). Copypaste the address to for example translate.google.com and you will get quite understandable translation from Finnish to English. Register as an user and start asking at the forum there. You would not be the first English language poster even if majority is in Finnish.

Special Hobby Myrsky in 1/72 might be a good starting point. Have not built mine (surprise...) but it should look the part when finished without any aftermarket thingies. For bombers perhaps Hasegawa or Revell (I have not the latter one yet) 1/72 Ju 88 A-4? Most of other types/kits need more work. In my opinion.


Happy modelling,
Kari

[modelldoc]

I had heard, that one Blackburn Skua was shipped to Finland during the winter war.

modelldoc

Edited by modelldoc, 12 September 2012 - 02:29 PM.