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Barracuda mystery


pat d

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Can any Barracuda boffins solve a mystery for me? At the wing root junction on the lower leading edge of the wing there is a small window on each side. This is NOT the small window in the fuselage directly below the windscreen quarter glass. It seems to have gone away on the Mk V. Any one in the ether have any idea of what these windows were used for? TIA as always, Pat D

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Do you have a pic that illustrates this? The only windows I know off are the bay windows at mid wing chord & the smaller ones level with the flaps under the wings. At or in front of the leading edge are the foot recesses used for climbing abord the beast afaik.

Steve.

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Here you go: The small windows on the underside of the L.E. of the wing at the wing root junction...I originally thought that they may be there to allow viewing of the wing lock pins, but upon reflection I think that the pilot would have liked to see these also! They are in most early (as far as I can tell) Barracuda photos but not all. Evidently at some point they were deleted or perhaps just painted over. They appear on both sides of the a/c.

http://i524.photobuc.../scan0003-5.jpg

http://i524.photobuc.../scan0001-7.jpg

Edited by pat d
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Are you sure it's a window?, looks rather like a footstep to me. In the second picture, it even looks like the paint has been scuffed off on the lower area. It looks very similar to the Swordfish push in hand hold/footstep. Just a thought!.........Smudge

Just found this drawing, see item 20

Cuda00131.jpg

Edited by swordfish fairey
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'At the wing root junction on the lower leading edge of the wing...'

He's referring to what looks like a rectangular 'window' of some sort in the leading edge itself, not the foothold in the fuselage side. I don't know what it is, either.

Yes, agree that you seem to be talking at cross purposes: don't understand why they'd put a foothold in the underside of the wing leading edge - but then I suppose this is the Barracuda! I spotted this window for the first time when going through the Barracuda folder of the FAA archives a few years back and was bemused by it as well.

O/T: does anyone have any more details on the Barracuda with nose art and a ship kill marking on the first of his links?

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Gun camera port sprang to my mind - looking straight up the exhausts!

But that's further out and on the other wing in Swordfish's diagram.

However that's a Mk2 (4 blade prop) and the photo shows a Mk1 (3 blade prop) - so it could have changed.

Could be an air intake for something. Either way it's just a patch of bark grey when I build my Barracuda.

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Odd place for a landing light - it would shine straight into the prop which would throw reflections back and create a nasty strobe effect for the pilot. That said, I don't have a better explanation other than maybe it was for the groundcrew to check something in the wing leading edge???

Edited by mhaselden
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Aha, see what you mean now. Not sure about that, looks like some sort of light or perhaps a strike camera? I'll ask my Dad to see if he can remember as he worked on them when in the FAA during the war.

Andy

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I'm just thinking out loud but seeing the size of the opening, and in consideration to the Barracuda's role as a dive bomber, maybe a strike camera (on either side) which had the facility of pivoting from a looking-down to a horizontal position. Or, a position for a reconnaissance camera of some kind. in both cases, the compartment would be fully accessible by aircrew in-flight to change rolls of film.

The other idea - again, only thinking out loud - is again associated with some form of aiming device. That the windows are on both sides might indicate that there was a potential to install some form of stereoscopic viewfinder or aiming for the pilot. Stereoscopic imaging was enthusiastically used during the war and for some time after, and it's extremely useful to derive a three-dimensional impression of the target, where it was a known phenomenon that some dive bomber pilots became fixated by the targets on occasion - like a rabbit staring at the headlights.

Like I said. Just thinking out loud. I've no actual academic knowledge of what they could have been.

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I suspect we're over-thinking this and that they're just windows! One of the roles of the Barracuda was a dive-bomber, so these may well be windows with a line of sight through from the cockpit so that the pilot can see downwards towards his target when dive-bombing. The JU-87 had a window in the floor between the pilots feet for the same reason.

Edited by StephenMG
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I suspect we're over-thinking this and that they're just windows! One of the roles of the Barracuda was a dive-bomber, so these may well be windows with a line of sight through from the cockpit so that the pilot can see downwards towards his target when dive-bombing. The JU-87 had a window in the floor between the pilots feet for the same reason.

Makes sence. As some aircraft are missing these windows. The area being a metal panel to fit in with the rest of the skinning.

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The problem with this idea is that the other main role of the Barracuda was torpedo-bombing, and this was abandoned (for lack of targets worth such an expensive weapon - and expensive in aircraft tactic!) from 1944 onwards. This is just about the same time as these windows stopped being fitted in production and/or were painted over. Rather unlikely if the dive-bombing role had become more important rather than less.

The pilot seems to sit too far forward to get a clear view out of these windows, and what about intervening structure?

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The problem with this idea is that the other main role of the Barracuda was torpedo-bombing, and this was abandoned (for lack of targets worth such an expensive weapon - and expensive in aircraft tactic!) from 1944 onwards. This is just about the same time as these windows stopped being fitted in production and/or were painted over. Rather unlikely if the dive-bombing role had become more important rather than less.

The pilot seems to sit too far forward to get a clear view out of these windows, and what about intervening structure?

That makes sense to me, there is actually a small window each side below the windscreen that would have been much better for the pilot to use to look down.

Does anyone know anything about the Type F Torpedo Director? Might these windows have had anything to do with that?

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Are we talking about the little shape that appears in Tony's cutaway right at the wing root, just where that strut marked 47 passes behind the leading edge (to the upper right of the number 25)? And if so, do we definitely know it's a glazed panel? I ask because in that position it surely can't be visible from the cockpit. It would be blanked by the cockpit side-walls and, even if they were open, the wing-root structure would still get in the way. Plus the pilot is too far back to see in through the opening, as well as too far forward to use it to see out. The only plane in which the opening appears to offer a view is chord-wise - from dead ahead if looking in. That indicates that it has some use on the deck but not in flight - though with the wing so far up, I'm hanged if I know what use that could be. It's not a cabin ventilation inlet instead, is it?

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That's the one I'm talking about, at least! There are some views where it appears to be a hole, but others where it seems glazed over. As it seems less common on later aircraft, even in the tropics, I'm not convinced of it being ventilation - not least because it seems far too large an opening for that. A much smaller duct would have done that job. In the view looking into it, there's no sign of any duct, just structure.

I'm not fully convinced that the cockpit side structure would get in the way of any view - I just think the discussion would benefit if we did know. However, as it doesn't seem to appear in any of the comments about flying/landing the Barracuda, and it was deleted or covered over on later production, it seems unlikely to be particularly useful. Nore that early Barras did have a small window in the side of the fuselage just ahead of the wing, but that seems to have disappeared very early on.

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Found this pic which shows an inset, flat window in the wingroot location. Makes me think of a camera installation.

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

No direct access as a login box comes up for yahoo.

BUT it seems to have changed with the link above, when used a s a quote............................... funny these computer thingies!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by jenko
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