p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I use 6 or 7 of my fingers spread over the length of a wing. I am going to try to take a picture of how I do it. For instance the next 2 models that I will be sanding down are the Esoteric Curtiss F8C & Boeing F3B models. Wait & see if I am sucessful in taking a picture. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 These 2 pictures show how I use my fingers to sand down the model parts. This is just for the purpose of illustration. I am not actually sanding the parts here. The first picture is the fuselage half. The model is the Esoteric Boeing F3B-1 This picture is for the wing. You will notice that I am using 4 fingers from both hands. The name on the sanding bar is the Great Plains 22 inch Easy-touch Bar Sander. If you look at the end of it you can see the large U shaped underside that runs the whole length. This is what I lock in my bench vise. On the wings I tape virtually the whole thing & then trim the ends along the top edge, & on the fuselage I put only one piece. I make very sure that none of the tape gets on the sandpaper. I use what I consider as medium pressure while sanding. I figure on average that it takes from 5 to 10 miniutes per piece to sand it out. I hope that these 2 pictures help explain things. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 With these first 3 pictures I hope to show more clearly how I go about taping & sanding the various parts. This first picture is of the same 2 parts that were in the 2 above. I have put the 2 sided Scotch tape on both pieces. In this picture I am holding the fuselage half ready to sand. In this picture I have the wing on my fingers. In this picture I have taken the name of the maker of the sanding bar. BOC262, I need a mailing adress. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 This should be the picture I meant to have at the bottom above.You can reach the manufacturer at www.greatplanes.com On their home page looking across the black line click on building equipment & then down to sanders. You will find a full description of these bars & rolls of sandpaper. My 22 inch one cost me $11.95, & a roll of 12 foot long sandpaper cost $7.99. If I cut the paper in 18 inch lengths as I use it I will have 8 changes of paper. For anyone out side of the US I would suggest buying the 22 inch bar ( they also have 5 1/2 &11 inch ones ) plus 2 or 3 rolls of sandpaper as a one time purchase deal. They have a contact us icon. These people are primarily makers of R/C planes, accessories, & tools. The Great Planes on the bar is their logo. I hope that this helps. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Thanks for the info on that Bar Sander, Carl. I probably missed it, but are you using double-sided tape or just plain Scotch tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Thanks for the info on that Bar Sander, Carl. I probably missed it, but are you using double-sided tape or just plain Scotch tape? Double sided, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 One of the things I meant to mention. If you use the T-bar & bench vise like I do, be sure to hold the T-bar against the top of the B/V flat surface while you tighten the B/V. What I usually do is to use my left hand pressing down on the T-bar & tightening the B/V with my right hand. If you do not have a solid contact between the bar & B/V, the bar will fall out from under you while you are sanding. I learned this from experience. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 This picture shows my comfort station while building. But first I want to express a few of my own personal views about vac-form models. As I have said before I am no expert on them. I am adressing my comments mostly to the modeler that has not yet tried them, but is interested in doing them. I do not believe them to be as difficult as they seerm, & as they are often made out to be. To me there are 2 important things that have to be accepted right from the beginning. THE LIMITATIONS OF THE MODEL FORM & YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITATIONS AS A MODELER. AS a model form, They are not the same as & never will be the same as an injected model. EVEN AFTER YOU HAVE SANDED THEM OUT. Most have a very basic cockpit set-up, some biplane ones you have to make up interplane struts & landing gears, Ect. Trailing edges of wings & tails are rarely sanded thin enough. In joining fuselages you generally have put in small pieces of plastic across the joints to keep then aligned. There are no locating pins or holes to help. As a modeler you should have a good idea of your limitations from both the number & quality of all your previous models. If you have never made vac-form models before you should expect a few less than perfect models to begin with. In my opinion, & this is only just that, You may build from 6 to 10 of these models before you have one that you are truly proud of & want to display. This does not mean that you will not be making good models as you develope the skills & confidence as you go along. You will, be sure of that. Remember that you are learning a totally different way of building models. You will know when you are ready to brag about your latest creation. Lastly, I plan, like always, to have fun building these models. I fully expect to have some problems as I go along. There are some things that I have never done before, which I will bring up as they come up. END OF RANT Carl T This is my chair that I use building my models. COMFORT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bittner Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Thanks for everything, Carl! Brilliant, the use of the double-sided tape. FWIW, I just received an Esoteric F3B-1 in the mail yesterday. It was one Esoteric US Navy kit that I didn't have, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Carl. Great build thread you have here I'm very interested in your approach to sanding back the cut edge. I used this a couple of time and I to being too top use the boards and sanding sheet method have used a 1" Warding file, second cut. They are used to cut Woodruff key slots in drive shafts on machinery. It has just the right amount of cut and I work on an area of about 2/3 inches at a time, it means dammage limitation is minimal and easily repaired. I was recently told by an engineer never to use a file which had been used on metal and then try it on plastic. The teeth take on their own characteristics. I have an of piece of towelling I spread across my knee to catch the swarf/sanding dust. I too sued to love the drawing from those old modelling mags, a great source of inspiration. On the table Halm-vac Auster AOP 9 and Twin Pioneer but progress is slooooow. Colin on the Africa Station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Matt, mail on the way. BOC262, PM a mailing adress, please. Last night I checked out how 1/48th scale worked out using this set-up, it does it very well. I see several WW1 biplanes coming up in the near future, plus an AEROCLUB AW SISKIN. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 This picture shows my comfort station while building. But first I want to express a few of my own personal views about vac-form models. As I have said before I am no expert on them. I am adressing my comments mostly to the modeler that has not yet tried them, but is interested in doing them. I do not believe them to be as difficult as they seerm, & as they are often made out to be. To me there are 2 important things that have to be accepted right from the beginning. THE LIMITATIONS OF THE MODEL FORM & YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIMITATIONS AS A MODELER. AS a model form, They are not the same as & never will be the same as an injected model. EVEN AFTER YOU HAVE SANDED THEM OUT. Most have a very basic cockpit set-up, some biplane ones you have to make up interplane struts & landing gears, Ect. Trailing edges of wings & tails are rarely sanded thin enough. In joining fuselages you generally have put in small pieces of plastic across the joints to keep then aligned. There are no locating pins or holes to help. As a modeler you should have a good idea of your limitations from both the number & quality of all your previous models. If you have never made vac-form models before you should expect a few less than perfect models to begin with. In my opinion, & this is only just that, You may build from 6 to 10 of these models before you have one that you are truly proud of & want to display. This does not mean that you will not be making good models as you develope the skills & confidence as you go along. You will, be sure of that. Remember that you are learning a totally different way of building models. You will know when you are ready to brag about your latest creation. Lastly, I plan, like always, to have fun building these models. I fully expect to have some problems as I go along. There are some things that I have never done before, which I will bring up as they come up. END OF RANT Carl T This is my chair that I use building my models. COMFORT. I like your philosophy, Carl. I think that's the sort of thinking we ought to be using when we stretch our talents to build a (sometimes awful) limited-run kit. I had to keep telling myself that as I worked on my Czech Models XP-55 Ascender and as I'm working on the Czech Models FR-1 Fireball. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I want to caution anyone doing these vac-forms this way. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO REPLACE THE DOUBLE SIDED TAPE AS OFTEN AS IS NECESSARY. ANY TIME YOU TAKE YOUR FINGERS OFF THE PART REPLACE THE TAPE. The reason for doing this is to maintain control of the part while sanding. While you are doing your sanding some of the fine plastic powder is getting stuck on the tape around your fingers. Every time that you change the tape you get a good solid grip on the part, keeping it from slipping around under your fingers. I buy 3 rolls of the tape at a time so as to always be sure that I do not run out. This only takes a few extra minutes to do, but I assure you that it is worth doing in order to get the best end result. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 For my first 1/48th model using this method I am going to do the AEROCLUB GLOSTER GAMECOCK. I cut out the parts this afternoon. I found David Valinskis finished one on Hyperscale, but no build thread. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 In getting ready for building the 1/48th scale models I am planning on building, I have been cutting out the 3 Aeroclub models the Gamecock, Demon, & Siskin,plus the Hansa Brandenburg W 12 by Sierra models. After looking at the B-29 in 1/32nd scale also being done on site I feel humbled at doing these small models. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bittner Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Carl, mail received. Thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Matt, I have the following plans for the Boeing F3B-1; 3 pages by William Wylam, & 2 pages by Paul Matt. If you want a copy of either or both please let me know. I have not found out how to send a PM on this new set-up. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bittner Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Carl, yes, please! LMK how much, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo Aero Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Matt, mail on the way. BOC262, PM a mailing adress, please. Last night I checked out how 1/48th scale worked out using this set-up, it does it very well. I see several WW1 biplanes coming up in the near future, plus an AEROCLUB AW SISKIN. Carl T PM sent--thank you! So good to see this thread on building vacuforms. I've built a few vacs in 1/72 and 1/48 (all OT), and hope to build many more. I always felt it was rather sad that so many modelers seem to be afraid to give them a try. Resin and limited run injection have pretty much killed off any new vac kit production, which is a shame. Vacuform kits are inherently more economical to produce (and therefore to buy), and if done well, can be every bit as good (and often better) than many limited run and resin kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagoneer Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 p-26luvr, that's a amazing thread so far. I've never tried a vac form kit but am now inspired to do so. On the plans front, having made a few balsa models from purchased kits, getting interested I found plenty of detailed aircraft plans online, free to download as PDFs. Many came from articles in air modelling magazines from the 50's/60's. It's worth a google to see what's there to be found. Wag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 For the last couple of days I have been going through my stash of plans to see what I can use for ideas for extra details. The first models up for that treatment will be the Hawker Nimrods. I will be using a 2 part article by Harry Woodman from the April & June 1980 issues of Scale Models magazine. There are a very good 1/72nd scale set of plans, with one featuring strucural detail, plus several very interesting pictures. I will also be using http:aircraftwalkarounds.be as reference, along with the Mushroom Book. I have also finished, for now, cutting out models for future use. While doing that I found that not all vacs are created equal in terms of plastic used. Most were very easy,but, one was like cutting butter because the plastic was so thin, 2 were like cutting steel because the plastic was so hard. What is most interst ing to me, one particular company had 3 models that were one of each type. I will be sending out mail by Tuesday. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Any progress this weekend, Carl? (nudge, nudge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Any progress this weekend, Carl? (nudge, nudge) I just got back from having copies made of the plan that I will be using. I had mirror images made so that I can make copies of both sides of the structure. I will take pictures of the plan overall & the specific parts of it that I will be using later in the afternoon. A snails pace would be fast as compared to my speed. Being over 80 allows me the prerogative of using that excuse now & then. How do you like that 25 cent word? Don LOL LOL Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 These 3 pictures will show the plan that I am using for detailing my Nimrod model. They are by Harry Woodman & are exactly the same size as the model. There is a lot of detail to be seen here. A signalling lamp on the fuselage underside, as well as the arresting hook, a release cable gear for the catapult gear, an area between the lower wings that is fabric covered. In the upper right corner the side view shows the catapult spools placement, as well as the various antenna wire connections. There is structual detail for the wings & tails as well as the fuselage. The placement for a gun camera on the starboard wing, & bomb racks under the port wing. The next 2 pictures show the part of the plan that I will be building over for the internal structure base. The second one is the mirror image of the first. That motor sticking out front is a strong temptation for a maintainance diorama. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 For anyone interested, the same plans that I am using for the Nimrod, along with the article & pictures & a 1/36th scale copy of the plan, is available from www.myhobbystore.co.uk for 17 pound 50. It is plan number 3013. You can acess the information about this by typing in Hawker Nimrod in the search area in the top right part of the home page. I just checked to be sure this is correct. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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