Hurricane "spaghetti" scheme: I said it was blue!

[FinnAndersen]

1 hour ago, Blimpyboy said:

I notice, too, that the last colourised photo has a yellow-ringed underwing roundel.

Was that a thing for desert Hurricanes or is it a case of whatever software was used picking up some differing contrast?

As a rule, don't trust anything on a colorised photo.

 

I fail to see the (faint) traces of the yellow surround on the original.

 

HTH Finn

[Blimpyboy]

42 minutes ago, FinnAndersen said:

I fail to see the (faint) traces of the yellow surround on the original.

Yeah, me too!

Perhaps there had been a different sized roundel that had been overpainted at some time, and the software has picked up on a contrast. Or maybe there's just some ghosting from the original black and white shot.

 

I didn't get into the heart of the thread, as it seemed to be descending into a bit of 'Britbotherer' argy-bargy from time to time - was/is there any consensus on the rationale for the scheme and the colours used therein?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Blimpyboy

[dragonlanceHR]

The reflectivity in those first two b&w photos screams Aluminium to me.

[Massimo Tessitori]

I'm trying to imagine the rationale of such an hybrid camouflage in the hopes of who projected it .

Some aluminum mixed with grey would make sense in surfaces that can be seen both from above and below.

When the planes were seen from below,  some silvery reflected the blue of the sky, while if they were seen from above it could have reflect the brown of the ground. So, the finish was not too demasking if seen from above too. Very dark blue and purple dots and stripes shouldn't have been too visible.

[detail is everything]

On 2/1/2013 at 5:14 PM, tonyot said:

I saw mention of the RNFS Hurricane Mk.I`s earlier in the thread and for what it is worth here is my model of one of these (Hasegawa 48th Mk.I kit), in what I thought at the time was a decent reproduction of the colours using Light Stone as a base coat for the leading edges as per ground vehicles and tanks, although I`ve always thought that some also had a painted aluminium base colour too;

Having tried to follow the thread I`m very confused now!

Cheers

Tony O

Tony has published this picture before in another discussion on the same subject and I responded saying.....

 

The reference photo was taken using orthochromatic film, so the chrome yellow outermost roundel ring appears black. The code 'K' is barely discernible against the Dark Earth camouflage, but seems not as dark as the yellow. If the code was Medium Sea Grey, surely it wouldn't be effected by the film emulsion and would appear as a pale grey?

I think, looking at the adjacent roundel, that the code might be roundel blue, rather than red.

 

Also, the "spaghetti" camouflage base colour on the nose and wing leading edges, seems to be too dull to have a silver base colour, except perhaps around the wing root area, where there may be some wear.

 

In response Tony said "As I said,......I make my model of V7816/K some time ago,......when hardly anything was known about this unit and I threw my hat into the ring with the limited info available. Since then I have researched the RNFS more and I do agree that the code letter should be blue,......there is actually a colour photo of a Hurricane from this unit in the Haynes Manual on the Hurricane which confirms this.

 

I am thinking of repainting this model when I can get my head around the so called `Spaghetti Scheme',...... which will include repainting the code blue. My thinking of the nose and leading edges of this particular aircraft is that they are probably light blue,....but who knows for sure eh?

 

As for the undersides,.....I used Aeromaster Azure Blue and I stick by that,......most of the underside area in the photo of the real thing is in shadow and thus jut looks darker. There is a section out of shadow on the forward ventral strake and this is much more in keeping with a lighter blue underside. Darker Blue undersides were more common on later aircraft circa 1942 onwards." 

 

DK Decals have produced an alternative interpretation of the same photo  see ..

 

 

.

 

 

If you go to http://www.dkdecals.cz/ then find decal set 72074 or 48024 and click on the enlarge button, you get a better view.

 

Interesting that the aircraft appears to have been through a FAA maintenance unit as the aircraft has the FAA 4" ROYAL NAVY and serial presentation , rather than the 8" serial presentation, it would have been delivered to the RAF with (and found on other RNFS Hurricane Mk.I`s).  

 

Simon

[tonyot]

1 hour ago, detail is everything said:

Tony has published this picture before in another discussion on the same subject and I responded saying.....

 

The reference photo was taken using orthochromatic film, so the chrome yellow outermost roundel ring appears black. The code 'K' is barely discernible against the Dark Earth camouflage, but seems not as dark as the yellow. If the code was Medium Sea Grey, surely it wouldn't be effected by the film emulsion and would appear as a pale grey?

I think, looking at the adjacent roundel, that the code might be roundel blue, rather than red.

 

Also, the "spaghetti" camouflage base colour on the nose and wing leading edges, seems to be too dull to have a silver base colour, except perhaps around the wing root area, where there may be some wear.

 

In response Tony said "As I said,......I make my model of V7816/K some time ago,......when hardly anything was known about this unit and I threw my hat into the ring with the limited info available. Since then I have researched the RNFS more and I do agree that the code letter should be blue,......there is actually a colour photo of a Hurricane from this unit in the Haynes Manual on the Hurricane which confirms this.

 

I am thinking of repainting this model when I can get my head around the so called `Spaghetti Scheme',...... which will include repainting the code blue. My thinking of the nose and leading edges of this particular aircraft is that they are probably light blue,....but who knows for sure eh?

 

As for the undersides,.....I used Aeromaster Azure Blue and I stick by that,......most of the underside area in the photo of the real thing is in shadow and thus jut looks darker. There is a section out of shadow on the forward ventral strake and this is much more in keeping with a lighter blue underside. Darker Blue undersides were more common on later aircraft circa 1942 onwards." 

 

DK Decals have produced an alternative interpretation of the same photo  see ..

 

 

.

 

 

If you go to http://www.dkdecals.cz/ then find decal set 72074 or 48024 and click on the enlarge button, you get a better view.

 

Interesting that the aircraft appears to have been through a FAA maintenance unit as the aircraft has the FAA 4" ROYAL NAVY and serial presentation , rather than the 8" serial presentation, it would have been delivered to the RAF with (and found on other RNFS Hurricane Mk.I`s).  

 

Simon

 

Simon.

         I will add that the first aircraft to wear the `Spaghetti' scheme were RN Fulmar`s from 806 NAS in 1940 and it appears to have been done to break up the outline when viewed from the front,.... which would help it to sneak closer to an Italian bomber like the SM-79,..... as the top speeds of the Fulmar and the SM-79 were very similar and the Fulmar could not catch up with or overtake one if it turned on the taps. When 806 NAS was forced to change its shore base from RNAS Dekheila to the RAF MU at Aboukir due to a series of tyre blow outs,.... the RAF got their first look at the new scheme and shortly afterwards it began to appear on RAF Hurricanes.  

Re the RAF use of the scheme,...... my current thinking (which I have shared here on BM but you have not reproduced) is that most used a silver or metallic light blue background and an account from an RAAF pilot, Flg. Off. John Jackson (3 Sqn RAAF) in the book `The History of the Mediterranean Air War- Vol 1, page 117 mentions after he and another pilot picked up a pair of Hurricanes  from El Firdan Air Stores Park in the Canal Zone in January 1941 "The new type of mottled blue, grey and purple camouflage on the nose,  leading edges of the wings and front surfaces looks most peculiar". 

 

as I said,...." I make my model of V7816/K some time ago,......when hardly anything was known about this unit and I threw my hat into the ring with the limited info available. .... and I continue to research". 

Cheers

           Tony

EDIT,...... These more recent models better illustrate my current train of thought when it comes to the `Spaghetti' scheme;

 

 

Tony

Edited September 2, 2020 by tonyot

[Grey Beema]

After a big debate on these hallowed pages I went down the same Fulmar route as Tony..