Spitfire Mk XIV G-ALGT 1/48 conversion: Return from the shelf of doom!

[Yankymodeler]

Now that the epic struggle with CASA conversions is done, I've decided to get back to work on a project that had been shelved to allow the CASA projects to be finished first. We join the WIP already in progress, with a review of work already completed.
Somewhat obliquely related to my 'BoB Movie Stars' series, is this attempt to build Spitfire Mk XIV, G-ALGT which will be finished in the gorgeous white and turquoise scheme she wore just before filming 'The Battle of Britain' began. I chose to base the model on Hasegawa's Mk IX/VIII for a couple of reasons. I wanted there to be a definite relationship between differing marks, so the small details and nuances needed to match. Any differences between the models would be those of the version and not the style of the kit. The Hasegawa Spitfire Mk IX has been said to be 'fatally flawed'. Although there are some dimensional issues in the length of the fuselage that compound when measured from the spinner back, when the wing roots are used as a starting point, the shape and dimensions become pretty close to published references. Although the depth of the fuselage is a bit thin, I find it looks better than the portly appearance of the Academy Mk XIV that I used to supply the Griffon engine and enlarged tail for the conversion. Perhaps most important of all, since the majority of the Spitfires in my stash (except for a couple of the superlative Airfix Mk 22/24) are Hasegawa kits, that is where I began.

Not sure if this is going to work or how it will look, but here we go!

A couple of boxes of parts that should become two Mk XIVs One, an Academy, will be a OOB build for my oft mentioned Project Instigator Friend.


Where to cut the engine cowls is not a simple swap, as the Griffon powered Spits have a different firewall than the Merlin powered versions so some filling will be necessary. My chosen cut lines are shown here.


For the tails I tried to follow prototypical panel lines


The replacement components and removed sections. Note the Academy cowling needed a wedge cut from it to correct the too deep profile.


A comparison of the Academy Mk XIV (top) and the Hasegawa with conversion parts (bottom).


Fuselage components ready for assembly


When the Academy (left) and Hasegawa (right) are lined up so the wing roots and aft cockpit bulkheads are lined up, the front of the engine cowls are almost perfectly alined. In the second photo it can be seen the rudder post lines depicted by the pencil line on the inside of the Academy fuselage is very close to where the Hasegawa's is.




A number of fellow modellers offered well written and well intended advice on the unsuitability of using the Academy cowling as part of the conversion. As the above pictures show, I stubbornly continued on with my original plan. After much trimming, shaping, blending and sanding I can confirm those opinions were indeed correct. Please hold the 'I told you so..'s' until I have forgotten how much time I put into this part of the build.
So...I dug into the stash and sacrificed one of my prized Airfix Spitfire Mk 22/24's and replaced swollen Academy proboscis with the fine subtle curves of the Airfix cowling. A much better representation can be seen already.








Now for the 'new' stuff :

The Mk XIVs had much deeper radiators than the MkIXs. In order to use the larger Griffon Airfix Mk22/24 radiators, the base of the Hasegawa radiators needed to be cut off and attached to the bottom of the Airfix as the two companies use different mountings.


The Hasegawa radiators have finer detail, strip styrene shims were used to fit them into the Airfix radiator housings.



The radiators were painted aluminum and given a wash to bring out the detail, the inside of the housings were painted white and glued into place. From the pics I see I have a bit more to do!




G-ALGT did not have the wheel-well bulges, these were removed by filing and filling. Although the cannon fairings were removed, the ammunition bay doors retained their bulges.


The grafted Academy tail after priming, elevators and rudder.






That's all for now,

Edited April 24, 2014 by Yankymodeler

[Col.]

Remember this one from pre-CASA and was impressed with your work at that point. Will be glued to this thread as well

[gingerbob]

Why the new join position? Is it because you'd already joined the Academy nose and wanted a clean start instead of trying to use the same cut? Or is there some other reason that comes into play?

On the radiators, it is hard to tell from the photos but are you accounting for the differences between XIV and 22 housings?

Glad to see this back in action!

bob

[Yankymodeler]

Why the new join position? Is it because you'd already joined the Academy nose and wanted a clean start instead of trying to use the same cut? Or is there some other reason that comes into play?

On the radiators, it is hard to tell from the photos but are you accounting for the differences between XIV and 22 housings?

Glad to see this back in action!

bob

bob,

The new joint position not only gave me a clean start, but helped preserve some panel lines on the nose that would be difficult to re-scribe.

The radiators have been modified to better match the XIV radiators, the aft portion is a bit shorter with a different angle on the rear edge. The profile is pretty good, though in front view the Airfix housings were molded with the sides hanging vertically down from, rather than being perpendicular to the lower surface of the wing. A little hot water and gentle bending corrected the shape and when attached, the radiator 'box' molded in the Hasegawa wing ensured the housings would retain the correct shape.

Thanks for the encouragement, I hope not to disappoint anyone as G-ALGT is such a well known, historic aircraft.

Eric

[Yankymodeler]

OK, I admit its been a little while from the last update and youve probably figured this build has been forgotten and place on the shelf of doom. Needing a diversion from another epic project I decided it was time to bring this one back into the shop.

Attaching and masking the windscreens, and the airframes were ready for a coat of primer. The Academy kit on the left will be built as RN201 [G-BSKP] in the 41 Squadron post-war racing colors. It was sold to Tom Blairs in Kissimmee, Florida becoming N201TB. This will be delivered to my infamous project instigator friend Scott W. My Hasegawa conversion, destined to become G-ALGT is on the right.

The primer showed only minor imperfections, so it was time to attach the elevators and rudder to the converted Hasegawa kit. The Rudder donated by an Academy, the elevators are the Hasegawa units

Starting to look like a Mk XIV! This will be painted in the white and turquoise wore in 1968 just before the filming of 'Battle of Britain' began

I hope to start getting finish paint started this weekend.

Thanks for your interest, Eric aka The Yankymodeler

Edited August 24, 2013 by Yankymodeler

[Col.]

Great to see you return to this one again.

[Yankymodeler]

A short update, not a lot to show,how can simply spaying paint take so much time? The final coat of white has been applied. and has dried for 2 days. Thie finish was built up with 3 thin coats, allowed to dry for at least a day in between. Next step will be a gentle sanding to smooth any imperfections and then polishing. This will be done before masking and spraying the turquoise. At this time I intend to use decals for the dark blue accent, I do reserve the option to change my mind!

Inspiration shot.

I do hope the water mark is sufficient to give credit.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Yankymodeler

[Miggers]

Eric my lad,what wheels do you see fitted to the old girl in that lovely colour photo?

If they're three spokes,you'd better re-instate those over-well bulges you've painstakingly removed

otherwise the u/c wouldn't retract!!!!!

Theyre difficult to see on the colour photos because of the glossy shine and the fact that they're only low

on the wing.

[Yankymodeler]

Miggers, Thank you for the message, I do hope that I've not misinterpreted a photo! Could I ask you to take a look at these pics and let me know what you think?

Here are few which I see as showing a narrow tire fitted to the 3 spoke wheel.

This looks to be a much narrower tire, modern looking. Perhaps from a contemporary aircraft that fit onto the original wheel? I think I remember reading something about a jet nose wheel tire that fit and was available for replacement.

Here is a good angle pic, not as crisp as I would have liked, but I think clear enough to show no tire bulge on the wing.

Removed photo

An enlarged/enhanced crop.

I welcome any opinions and interpretations.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Yankymodeler

[wellsprop]

Watching closely! Looks fantastic

[Miggers]

It wasn't the tyre Eric,it was the wheel.

Four spokes are 10.25" wide,three spokes are 12" wide.

Bucc/Sea Vixen nosewheel tyres fit 'em.

I also have all those pics,so I'll study 'em later mate,but three spokes very,very usually needed the

bulges to retract properly.

[Col.]

Am I misinterpreting the first photo or does the u/c door curve more along its width than is usualy the case?

[Miggers]

Am I misinterpreting the first photo or does the u/c door curve more along its width than is usualy the case?

Think it's the angle Col.

[Yankymodeler]

Oh boy! Perhaps I'll be fabricating a set of bulges soon!

Miggers,

Am I correct in recalling a modification that allowed the gear to lay a bit lower in the well when retracted that used bulged gear doors?

I just can't seem to find any evidence of the over wing bulge on G-ALGT, either in the blue scheme or after the filming of "Battle of Britain"!

Eric

[Yankymodeler]

Am I misinterpreting the first photo or does the u/c door curve more along its width than is usualy the case?

I think you may be correct, I've been looking more closely at photographs and there does seem to be a pronounced curve to G-ALGT's gear door. If I can find evidence of a modification I think I remember, to slightly lower the retracted position of the gear leg, that could be the answer to a lack of a bulge on the top of the wing.

[Hamden]

Very interesting project I will follow this with interest.

Roger

[Miggers]

Oh boy! Perhaps I'll be fabricating a set of bulges soon!

Miggers,

Am I correct in recalling a modification that allowed the gear to lay a bit lower in the well when retracted that used bulged gear doors?

I just can't seem to find any evidence of the over wing bulge on G-ALGT, either in the blue scheme or after the filming of "Battle of Britain"!

Eric

Uncle Edgar's our man Eric really,but AFAIK,I don't recall a mod to lower the leg,

only to change the angle of the forward rake.

I've just studied as many online pics I can find of the old girl.

I'm shocked to say that I too can't see the over-well bulges normally associated with

the three spokes fitted to the later raked undercart legs.

Here's MK356 sporting her bulges on her e-wing:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-361-Spitfire/1986185/L/&sid=dfc55f5a1566cc196605dfacf4c8c9d3

And again,she's definitely got three spokers fitted:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-361-Spitfire/2147927/L/&sid=dfc55f5a1566cc196605dfacf4c8c9d3

Curiously though,PS915's bowser wing doesn't seem to have them even

though she also runs three spokes:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-389-Spitfire/2270513/L/&sid=6cae9839ed2d0cf9bfab785bc1837659

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Supermarine-389-Spitfire/2270513/L/&sid=6cae9839ed2d0cf9bfab785bc1837659

SX336 has the "folding" c wing,three spokes and bulges:

http://spitfiresite.com/photos/galleries/seafire-xvii-sx336/index.htm

SX336 has the best pics to show just how slim the bulges are.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Miggers

[Yankymodeler]

Miggers,

Thank you very much for taking the time to review references. It gives me comfort to know I am not missing the obvious I understand how slim the bulges are and how easily they could be missed, I just can't see any clue of an overwing bulge on G-ALGT!

I do however see a definite curve/bulge to the gear door along the length of the strut in a number of photographs, that is what causes me to think the strut is laying a bit lower when retracted.

I also found the below passages in The Spitfire Site (http://spitfiresite.com). Perhaps the answer is in a combination of the variations applied to G-ALGT My guess is she would have been tweaked and babied with the best features available.

"With the introduction of the C or “universal” wing on the Mk. V, the “D”-shaped bump above the wheel wells disappeared. This was a consequence of an increased forward rake of the extended undercarriage legs resulting in less space being needed for the wheel when retracted. Thus all Spitfires Mk. Vc and early Mk. IXs had completely flat wheel well roofs."

"Also relatively unknown is the fact that the legs on the “universal” and “e” wings did not retract completely into the wing. This is reflected by slightly bulged undercarriage covers. This change stemmed in part from the introduction of increased forward rake of the main undercarriage and also to allow completely smooth upper wing surfaces in this area.

The changed geometry of the undercarriage pintle axle made the small blister near the wing root disappear, while a new blister under the wing, just aft of the pivoting point, was introduced."

Thanks again for the information and the assistance!

Eric aka The Yankymodeler

Edited October 9, 2013 by Yankymodeler

[Miggers]

But usually,the teardrop shaped bulge has to appear above the wing when

combined with the revised rake and three spoke wheels with either the c or e wing.

I can understand there being no bulges with four or five spokers and the modified legs,

those wheels are 10.25 inches wide,but the three spokes are 12 inches wide.

If she has modified deeper bulged doors to obviate the need for the teardrop overwing bulges

as shown in the above pics that I linked to,then where has that mod come from?

Is it something that Rolls's have done themselves?(they do/did have a top notch panel beating department

on the vehicle side).

Is PS915 fitted with a similar pair of doors?

Technically,Golf-Tango has only had two owners from new,the RAF and Rolls-Royce,hmm,the plot deepens.

Either way mate,don't forget her other "wrinkle",the tailwheel is locked down and it's door are cut to

fit around the leg and locked shut,looks quite odd on an XIV once she's aloft(soon again we hope)

and cleaned up.

[Yankymodeler]

It is indeed a puzzlement! I'm thinking with the forward rake, and the bulged doors (indicating the lower strut position when retracted) and the smaller tires, all of which would allow for no bulges, they all added up and allowed Rolls-Royce to keep the top of the wing clean. Of course that brings to question why a set of gun bay doors without cannon bulges weren't fabricated.....

As much as I've been looking, photo enhancing and enlarging, I just can not see any indication of the bulge on G-ALGT! I think i may just go with what I see in the reference pics and get the turquoise masked and painted. There's a contest here the end of this month and I'd like to have the model completed.

Thanks for the heads up on the tailwheel, I've already got the doors on in the closed position, when I get done with the painting I'll install the tailwheel through the waiting drilled hole through the doors.

[JasonC]

Hi Eric,

Great looking build so far! What paint did you use for the white? It's always a difficult colour to spray.

Good research on the bulge issue. One of those cases of 'model what you see', and not what you think is there!

regards,

Jason

[Miggers]

It is indeed a puzzlement! I'm thinking with the forward rake, and the bulged doors (indicating the lower strut position when retracted) and the smaller tires, all of which would allow for no bulges, they all added up and allowed Rolls-Royce to keep the top of the wing clean. Of course that brings to question why a set of gun bay doors without cannon bulges weren't fabricated.....

As much as I've been looking, photo enhancing and enlarging, I just can not see any indication of the bulge on G-ALGT! I think i may just go with what I see in the reference pics and get the turquoise masked and painted. There's a contest here the end of this month and I'd like to have the model completed.

Thanks for the heads up on the tailwheel, I've already got the doors on in the closed position, when I get done with the painting I'll install the tailwheel through the waiting drilled hole through the doors.

Go without them and get her painted up mate.

If better research comes to light and you need to add them,5 thou plasticard with the edges radiused

is your friend.

Paint them up and fix on with a tad of Clearfix/Krystal Klear or similar.

That way you won't affect the paint job

[gingerbob]

Comments preceded with "****":

It gives me comfort to know I am not missing the obvious I understand how slim the bulges are and how easily they could be missed, I just can't see any clue of an overwing bulge on G-ALGT!

**** I don't know about this myself, but I think I recall Edgar saying that the VIII/XIV never had the bulges.

I do however see a definite curve/bulge to the gear door along the length of the strut in a number of photographs, that is what causes me to think the strut is laying a bit lower when retracted.

**** I think that's the same bulge you SHOULD see with any 'c'/'e' wing Spit. The problem is you seldom do on models, since very few kits have caught this feature until very recently.

"With the introduction of the C or “universal” wing on the Mk. V, the “D”-shaped bump above the wheel wells disappeared. This was a consequence of an increased forward rake of the extended undercarriage legs resulting in less space being needed for the wheel when retracted. Thus all Spitfires Mk. Vc and early Mk. IXs had completely flat wheel well roofs."

**** But the 'c'/'e' wing bulge was added later, so has nothing to do with the earlier ' "D"-shaped bump'.

"Also relatively unknown is the fact that the legs on the “universal” and “e” wings did not retract completely into the wing. This is reflected by slightly bulged undercarriage covers. This change stemmed in part from the introduction of increased forward rake of the main undercarriage and also to allow completely smooth upper wing surfaces in this area.

**** And this was a feature of the 'c'/'e' wing from the beginning.

But usually,the teardrop shaped bulge has to appear above the wing when

combined with the revised rake and three spoke wheels with either the c or e wing.

I can understand there being no bulges with four or five spokers and the modified legs,

those wheels are 10.25 inches wide,but the three spokes are 12 inches wide.

Don't assume that the structure and therefore requirements of the IX/XVI wing are the same as that of the VIII/XIV wing, even though they are both 'c/e' wings. Likewise the PR.XIX- it isn't just a PR.XI wing bolted on a XIV fuselage, nor is it derived directly from the 'c/e' wing.

As usual, more investigation required!

bob

[Yankymodeler]

Remember the 'good old days' when a Spitfire was a Spitfire? We didn't obsess over details like bulges on differing marks, back then we considered ourselves expert if we even knew of one or two different versions! It is amazing how many changes occur between different production models of a given airframe.

gingerbob, thank you for the review of our discussion, it helped clarify the bits of information gathered. I just got done reading through a few other pages of reference and I concur with your comments. I did not see wheel bulges on any of the Mk XIVs and certainly not on ALGT, so that is the configuration I'm going to depict.

A quick picture of the first coat of blue, custom mixed with MM enamels, I'll let this dry for a couple days, give it a light sanding and then a final coat.

It's amazing how lighting and viewing angle affect how certain colors are perceived. These three pics are of the same paint and model!

[Yankymodeler]

Hi Eric,

Great looking build so far! What paint did you use for the white? It's always a difficult colour to spray.

Good research on the bulge issue. One of those cases of 'model what you see', and not what you think is there!

regards,

Jason

Thanks Jason.

The white is MM gloss enamel, the trick is to prime with a light grey and then build up the white in a series of thin coats allowed to dry thoroughly between applications. I lightly wet sand imperfections with 1500 or finer paper between coats.