Graeme Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I was watching the 787 on the BBC this morning and the reporter showed the electronically darkening windows, which got me to thinking...why bother fitting windows anyway? Surely the fuselage would be stronger anyway without lots of holes on each side (lol), but instead of windows they could simply fit video screens and use camera's to project the external view...you want it dark, turn the screen off? I read somewhere that the Sultan of Brunei or somebody like that has an A380 on order and will use that technology in the floor so passengers can watch the ground they are flying over (it was on tinternet so it must be true) Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I was watching the 787 on the BBC this morning and the reporter showed the electronically darkening windows, which got me to thinking...why bother fitting windows anyway? Surely the fuselage would be stronger anyway without lots of holes on each side Ask De Havilland about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richellis Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 There is a thread on this some where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 suppose its nice to see the ground before you hit it at 500 mph!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 suppose its nice to see the ground before you hit it at 500 mph!!!!!!!! But what you can't see doesn't hurt you right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 hmmm didnt think of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 yes the fuselage would be stronger without any openings in it.... This has been looked at by airliner designers and dismissed by airlines as passengers would feel too enclosed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Having external visual cues can reduce airsickness. The concept of being in a windowless, hermetically-sealed aluminium tube amongst 150 vomiting "closest recent acquaintances" really doesn't thrill me! Edited April 24, 2012 by mhaselden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 People like to see where they are going and enjoy the experience, you could say the same about not really being necessary for train carriages (underground in particular!), rear passenger windows on cars, buses etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picard Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Hi there, Bizarely, I attended the first Cheltenham Festival of Enginering on Sunday to see two lectures, one being with the Airbus concept aircraft of 2050, given by the A380 head of areo dynamics. Interesting stuff indeed looking at the future of civil aviation, from redesinging engines, fuels etc. He did however, make a point over and over again during the lecture and during the Q&A, that engineers and designers totally hate puting windows in any aircraft due to the weight and renforceing the airframes around the windows, so we the humble passenger can look out. So Airbus are indeed looking at active composite airframes to degate having windows all together with various sections of the passenger section having incredible veiwing areas. By the way, the A350 also looks like a wonderful bird, clearly going up against the 787. I am sure if you google Airbus Concept Plane, you may find the really cool video we saw plus various images, although he asured us the model is a design concept only. The sad thing that came over is that neither Airbus or Boeing are not even near looking at an SST again. The second lecture we went to was by Ardman Studios with Wallce and Gromit sitting on the coffe table. Which was nice. Interesting days ahead indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbky Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Why put windows in passenger aircraft? Firstly spatial orientation and circadian rhythms are important, particularly on long haul flights. I'm about to head off on a 10 hour trip from LHR to IAH and I resent crews who think the best way of dealing with pax on a long haul flight is to serve the meal, darken the cabin, even at midday in the height of summer, and head to the galley to read newspapers and gossip. I'm afraid as a fare paying passenger they get short shrift from me. Another reason for having windows is, if you have a window seat, some of the cloudscapes can be amazing, cities at night from altitude are one of the wonders of the modern world, seeing the vastness of the Amazon jungle, the mountains of Eastern Turkey or the Sahara from the air should be on everyone's bucket list. On this trip I'm looking forward to seeing icebergs - as I regularly do at this time of year and even the road and river systems of the USA can be fascinating to see, even though I've flown over most of the US many times. Boeing, by putting in bigger windows on the 787, obviously realise there is more to windows than just annoying the design and structural engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Yes, windows are something the engineers would happily do without ! A lot of weight and design complications would be avoided without the windows. However the psychological effect of an aircraft with no windows on the passengers would be terrible. Personally I'm only happy to have a window to look out from. Having a screen would not be the same. This reminds me of another issue that was discussed years ago: the seat direction. Some researches have shown that having the seats facing backward would be better from a safety point of view. However when passengers were interviewed about this, nobody wanted this kind of arrangement. Rear facing seats are installed on some military transports... but of course in that case the passengers are not allowed to complain much.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbky Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Many military transports have few or no windows yet are designed to carry, in some cases, hundreds of troops. The C135, C141, Il76 come to mind, not to mention the C130. I've spoken to some members of various armed forces who have found such aircraft claustrophobic whilst others haven't taken too much notice (perhaps being too focussed on the job in hand). I've been up the back in a C5 where there is a 90 seat windowless passenger compartment in what is the most turbulence affected part of the airframe and wouldn't care to travel very far in it. The RAF, on the other hand, have - C130s apart - kept windows even when converting aircraft from airliners. As for rearward facing seats, when BEA and later BA had the Trident 3 in service they had rearward facing seats at the front of the cabin backing onto the bulkhead and I always tried to get one as they were comfortable, had more leg room and there was little difference, as far as I was concerned, in flying backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 It surprises me, whenever I fly long distances, how few people actually are concerned about looking out of the window. To be fair, it may be that some of them are looking out when I'm looking down, and I can't see everyone, let alone monitor their activity throughout! When we are passing over land, I spend most of my time looking out of the window, if I can, though I would appreciate a screen view from fixed cameras, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard G Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I love looking out of the window on a flight. When I last went to Kenya it was a day flight and we passed the westen end of the Alps and flew down the west coast of Italy. Spectacular and looking down on Genoa from 35,000 feet was like looking at google earth with everything laid out below. The only problem was a lack of a zoom option. Richard It surprises me, whenever I fly long distances, how few people actually are concerned about looking out of the window. To be fair, it may be that some of them are looking out when I'm looking down, and I can't see everyone, let alone monitor their activity throughout! When we are passing over land, I spend most of my time looking out of the window, if I can, though I would appreciate a screen view from fixed cameras, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Plane spotters would have something to say when landing somewhere exotic lol Plus views like this are great to see!! ATR by Rainbow 1984, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaboutmodels Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 It looks like there is a missile in the background, behind the engine. Watch out is going to get you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 You all seem to be missing my main point - if you have video screens, you don't need the windows because the external view is displayed on the video screens - which will mean your brain forgets it's in an enclosed metal/composite tube Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 One thing that always amazed me is, why do they have opaque glass in the windows of the toilet on airliners, who is going to see you. Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 You all seem to be missing my main point - if you have video screens, you don't need the windows because the external view is displayed on the video screens - which will mean your brain forgets it's in an enclosed metal/composite tubeGraeme Psychological - you know it's not real, there's always the doubt that what is on the screen is actually what is outside. Plus a window is always there, I've been on several flights where the in-flight movie screens etc malfunctioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbky Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Not missing the point at all. A video screen is a selective view, does not have the same impact on the viewer as a real world view and is not in the control of the viewer. Last year coming back over night from the USA I watched a fantastic light show off the eastern seaboard of the USA for over 400 miles caused by an electrical storm with CBs up to 40,000 feet around 100 miles off our track. I was right down the back and my blind being up didn't disturb anyone. It was one of the most spectacular displays I've seen outside of the Far East. No doubt had the aircraft been devoid of windows the crew would have turned off any outside display "for passenger comfort" and anyway aircraft that are fitted with cameras have them facing forward and slightly down, so I would have missed everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 This reminds me of another issue that was discussed years ago: the seat direction. Some researches have shown that having the seats facing backward would be better from a safety point of view. However when passengers were interviewed about this, nobody wanted this kind of arrangement. Rear facing seats are installed on some military transports... but of course in that case the passengers are not allowed to complain much.. They are allowed to complain. It just doesn't do 'em any good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaboutmodels Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 You need windows, otherwise you have nothing to argue about, i fight for the window seat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plimsol Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Why put windows in passenger aircraft?Firstly spatial orientation and circadian rhythms are important, particularly on long haul flights. I'm about to head off on a 10 hour trip from LHR to IAH and I resent crews who think the best way of dealing with pax on a long haul flight is to serve the meal, darken the cabin, even at midday in the height of summer, and head to the galley to read newspapers and gossip. I'm afraid as a fare paying passenger they get short shrift from me. Another reason for having windows is, if you have a window seat, some of the cloudscapes can be amazing, cities at night from altitude are one of the wonders of the modern world, seeing the vastness of the Amazon jungle, the mountains of Eastern Turkey or the Sahara from the air should be on everyone's bucket list. On this trip I'm looking forward to seeing icebergs - as I regularly do at this time of year and even the road and river systems of the USA can be fascinating to see, even though I've flown over most of the US many times. Boeing, by putting in bigger windows on the 787, obviously realise there is more to windows than just annoying the design and structural engineers. re the morons that lean across you at midday and pull your blind down without a by your leave, "get stuffed" is my natural response but that tends to upset them, to avoid a row just say"claustrophobic," that frightens them off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spfparker Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I like to look out of the windows - However when I flew to San Francisco last year on a flight taking off at around lunchtime - a couple of hours into the flight the flight attendants almost insisted that I closed the blinds on the windows so that others could sleep - It was in First so I had about three windows.. Whats that all about? Apparently, I was told that, on new aircraft the electronic blinds are operated by the flight attendants so you are not going to have a choice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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