Paul Bradley Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Sorry for the newbie-type questions; I am not that knowledgable about maritime procedures. I know that, by the Suez Campaign, RN carriers were carrying the Whirlwind as plane guard, but did they still use destroyers as back ups? If so, what signal flags would those destroyers fly while on plane guard duty? And would there be any particular dispositions of crew members, ready for eventualities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Reeder Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Sorry for the newbie-type questions; I am not that knowledgable about maritime procedures. I know that, by the Suez Campaign, RN carriers were carrying the Whirlwind as plane guard, but did they still use destroyers as back ups? If so, what signal flags would those destroyers fly while on plane guard duty? And would there be any particular dispositions of crew members, ready for eventualities? HI Paul, Yup the RN did use plane guard destroyers at that time.I remember seeing a TV docu on the Ark Royal (Sea Hawks ,Sea Vemons etc) in the late 50`s,and she had a "C" class Destroyer as a back up plane guard.As regards the signal flown the DD ,I don`t know if there was a special signal.May be some Ex-navy type will know. Cheers Phil Edited April 21, 2012 by Phil Reeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Hi Paul, the carrier would fly a flag signal stating (not exact wording) "I am liable to sudden/violent manoeuvres" and also Flag H (red/white) to denote 'I am at Flying Stations'. It may be that Flag H denoted both of the above, not sure. I have a book, somewhere, with signal codes and I'll see if I can dig it out to see if the destroyer flew any signals during flying stations. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyBing Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Hi Paul,the carrier would fly a flag signal stating (not exact wording) "I am liable to sudden/violent manoeuvres" and also Flag H (red/white) to denote 'I am at Flying Stations'. It may be that Flag H denoted both of the above, not sure. I have a book, somewhere, with signal codes and I'll see if I can dig it out to see if the destroyer flew any signals during flying stations. Mike The correct wording would be 'Limited in ability to manoeuvre' and rather than a flag hoist is shown by 'three shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these shapes shall be balls and the middle one a diamond', I may have looked that up! To be honest I've always thought it was a bit academic as you can tell it's an aircraft carrier miles before you can make out the little shapes and flag Hotel. Not sure what the manoeuvring flag hoists would be, but I'm reasonably sure once they were steady on course nothing would be hoist until they wanted to signal the next intended manoeuvre, the manoeuvre commencing on the executive which would be when another flag was hoist fully up. I really wasn't paying attention when I was taught this signalling malarky... Reference the shapes, balls shall have a diameter of not less than 0.6 metre, diamonds would be constructed of two cones which shall have a base diameter of not less than 0.6 meter and a height equal to its diameter. Edited April 21, 2012 by SkippyBing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Here's a lengthy dissection of what happens when these operations go wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne%E2%...yager_collision Amazingly, the Melbourne did it again 5 years later: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne%E2%...Evans_collision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks all, for your insights. Hi Paul,I have a book, somewhere, with signal codes and I'll see if I can dig it out to see if the destroyer flew any signals during flying stations. Mike Please - that would be most useful, Mike. I want to be sure I fly the right flags, if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbow Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Hotel for helos (so that is correct!!) Foxtrot for flying stations (covers FW and RW) Flag Signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Interesting - is there an equivalent site for RN flag signals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbow Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 That was just a quick Google Paul. Wiki "International maritime signal flags" covers similar so you'll find RN uses them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Ah - I couldn't find anything specific, but I was just using the wrong terms. Typical newbie....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGHTS ON Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 USN still uses plane guard today, even with hello on station. At night it's main role is to act as a reference for the LSO so he can judge the horizon in relation to the height of the aircraft. (use of masthead lights). For non nuke powered escorts this can really suck the fuel dry on the hapless DDG ship! As well it acts as a reference for the pilots when aligning for the centre line for recovery. Of course the "added?" pleasure of getting all the dumped fuel from the jets as they adjust to landing weight is all part of the package! Some bunting type should be able to give you the flag hoist. As answered above, flag "foxtrot" for fixed wing flying AND the ball, diamond, ball shapes in rigging is about the norm. Cool picture out there on web of Daring as plane guard to Enterprise from 2010 somewhere..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gengriz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Taken in 1994 whilst acting as plane-guard in a Type 22 (sorry its so small - I must look out the rest and scan them in). Couldn't believe how much gash the carrier was ditching between launches/recoveries, in the Gulf as well. You could have tracked her for days by following the pile of floating debris. Launching the entire air group was certainly a sight to see, with the first ones refuelling before the last ones were up. By the end we had more aircraft circling above us than most of the world's air forces even posess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Flag 'F' at the dip - preparing/temporarily suspended fixed wing flying ops, close up - carrying out fixed wing flying ops. Flag 'H' has similar meaning but for helos and other furious palm trees. The 'ball/diamond/ball' is flown whenever any ship is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, including flying ops. Emergency F or H would be flown if a petrol pigeon or plane actually crashed/ditched The destroyer/frigate performing plane guard would have a seaboat closed up ready to go. Be aware, war canoes do not precede the 'H' or 'F' with the answer/code pennant unless they are communicating with merchant ships - the meanings are completely different from the RN signal book. From memory code hotel means 'I require a pilot' - but not the flying type!! Hope this helps Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Thanks Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roof Rat Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Hello Paul Having read the post's I recall the Ark in the 70's would have a destroyer planeguard as well as the wessex SAR on several occasions. I've been ploughing through my mountain of photos and I came across one showing phantom 012 landing-on, SAR 47 on station port quarter, and county class destroyer D06 (Hampshire I believe) outboard of the SAR taken in 1975. We would run exercises for a ditched aircraft where the planeguard destroyer would manoeuvre hard to go abeam the dummy creating a calm area of sea around it, then allow the SAR to do it's stuff and recover the dummy back to the Ark. I've tried to up-load this picture but I've had no luck sorry, I will retry at the w/end. Phil Reeder mentiouns Ark in the 50's with a c class destroyer as planeguard, I believe that to be Cavalier (D73). As a side-note my dad served on the Cavalier durring WW2. I hope this has been of interest / help, I will retry to up-load the photo. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Thanks RR - would be great to see that photo as my uncle served on Hampshire in the seventies! Still have the stamp album he bought me in Singapore....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roof Rat Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Hello PaulI hope this has worked. You should be able to see Ark Royal, the SAR and Hampshire RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Nice! Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roof Rat Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Not sure why the picture is no longer there, will try and re-post. Picture reinstated 22 October 2013 RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now