John Thompson Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I adjusted the levels of the cockpit photo and it looks more convincing. If that is a photo of a real P40 cockpit imposed onto a desert scene context, I'm very impressed! I'll hate myself for getting sucked in to this debate, but it's a boring afternoon. To my simple mind, your post is all the proof I'd need to believe that it's real. Some of the details in the photos are just too unexpected to be something some CGI wizard dreamt up. And why would he bother to invest the many hours it would take to produce something like this? If it was just so he could sit back and laugh at the controversy, he seriously needs psychiatric help, or at least something gainful to keep him busy. Without wasting my own time disputing all of the "proofs" that this is CGI, let me rebut just one: If this is PhotoShop, wouldn't dropping in a superimposed image of Indiana Jones (as an example of a desert adventurer, I mean) or some other human being be one of the very simplest things the artist could have done to make the images look "real"? As has already been commented, people are much too quick to cry "PhotoShop!" whenever something interesting shows up on the Internet. I say real, not Memorex. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 And why would he bother to invest the many hours it would take to produce something like this? If it was just so he could sit back and laugh at the controversy, he seriously needs psychiatric help, or at least something gainful to keep him busy. Maybe for the same reason that virus writers waste their lives just to inconvenience other internet users...??!! There are numerous reasons why the GPS coordinate would not have been made public. Again, assuming it is real, then firstly, the holder of the photos and GPS coordinate has company protocols to follow, then there are regional politics to consider, the threat of the site being disturbed (there could be human remains nearby), the threat of unprofessional recovery attempts, etc, etc. If it were me, I would be keeping it very close to my chest until the proper authorities had been contacted via the proper channels and the site inspected by professional investigators. Or they could have found a vast undiscovered oilfield under it...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Or they could have found a vast undiscovered oilfield under it...!! If they did, considering the moral scruples of your average Big Oil cartel member, they'd probably have destroyed the photos, lobotomized the witnesses, buried the wreck to avoid the inconvenient complications that James Venables listed, and thrown up a drill rig as quick as they could airlift one in. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancfan Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I think we are all over thinking this, it is a real aeroplane the damage is logical and a sequence of events can be worked out from the wreckage, it has worn two colour schemes with tropical markings over the temperate colours and both shemes are visible to varying degrees as are two sets of stencils applied at different times (and probably on different continents) If only the serial was visible in the pictures then it could be traced through the paper trail at RAFM and Kew. Those who discovered it may have been told to keep quiet about the serial and location until the history is known and there is no likeliehood of human remains in the area. There may also be official interest in the aircraft itself which technically is still a RAF or Allied Air Force (Ex. Commonwealth) machine and as such is an untouched original relic from the North African Campaign. We know too little of the details to speculate, lets keep our imaginations turned down and wait and see. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 All those calling it fake have not provided a reason as to why someone would bother going to the effort of faking something like this. There's no money in it. Apart for a a few Aircraft/modelling nerds no one else would care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) It's now some 50 years since I was was in Libya (1960/61) when I was at the former Castel Benito airfield then RAF Idris. there was a strong rumour (IIRC in the USAF Wheelus AB paper) that an Italian aircraft had been found (by geo explorers) and near it was an 'American fighter bomber' which was thought to have damaged each other. The Italian was later found to be a SM79 in quite intact condition( I believe the one in the photos shown by Massimo on Hyperscale) but I recall hearing no other info ref the 'fighter bomber'. When the P40 crashed, the area could have been totally sandy and the wreck covered and revealed many times over the years. As a modeller and with real aeroplane experience,I think this appears to be real but I would have expected this to be top news if the RAF have been asked for an ID and if the photos are recent and not digital copies from mixed sources. I would have expected that the location might not have been revealed but the story would have been, as interesting press. What I am suspicious of is the eastern european source and on a modelling site. Are these old photos which are being manipulated? We live in an age of cyber deceit. The war was largely waged on the coastal strip except for the odd ground sorties to "go around the back" and certainly there was an awful lot of stuff strewn about (the back of the airfield was strewn with old ammo and rusty items like tin hats and concrete practice bombs). Our hangar door was still in Italian camouflage, but from the inside it looked like a lace curtain with all the bullet holes in it. The mess had the facses and axe carvings in the masonery and behind the board on the control tower (saying welcome to RAF Idris) was a commemerative plaque in Italian. This was only 15 years after the war and not long after 'Lady be good' and a totally intact Blenheim (there was a photo in Flight) still on it's wheels with it's tail on an oil drum and a think a grave nearby had been discovered. The scrappers were like locusts and very soon cleared the coatal plain, but anything which comes out of the Quatttara or Cyrenica would not suprise me. It would be nice if this is real and current but ... John Edited April 22, 2012 by John Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Just want to clarify my position as regards the throttle; I was in no way suggesting that a fully open throttle implies that it must be fake, only saying that it would be an odd position for a pilot to put it in during a forced landing. I can think of all sorts of reasons why it would end up in that position, none of which provide any evidence either way as to the genuine nature or otherwise of this story. I'm in the 'wait and see' camp. (great info though btw John) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XF442 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) A user on flugzeugforum.de found the following links. Videos anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFe8CsOdoG8...;feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9LsK74J_W0 Edited April 22, 2012 by XF442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Well ! , if those videos are faked up ,I'm well impressed. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Nice one XF422! Expect a cacophony of reversing horns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Well there you go then. It's probably been cut up by now. Note the sand in the cockpit. Those shots explain everything except for an ID. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Wow! Very cool.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lime Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Looks pretty damned real from the comfort of my sick bed! I'm sure even the most hardened nay-sayer would be hard pressed to argue that is fake ammo being removed from fake guns to avoid the death of one of the fakers! I'm very happy that a rare as rocking horse poo Commonwealth Kittyhawk has been found where it made its last landing. My only concern is that it is recovered intact with as much historical integrity preserved as possible, here's keeping my fingers crossed.... Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Pffff... I hope to goodness that's been recovered before the vultures pick it clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Now I'm convinced. DEFINITELY the product of a team of top CGI artists with too much time on their hands. It's all too realistic to be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 In the second film it appears that there is heat damage to the nose on the port side. perhaps the reason for the crash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 So lets hear from all those experts in photo interpretation now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Flynn Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 So lets hear from all those experts in photo interpretation now... Their all busy eating crow for Sunday dinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Their all busy eating crow for Sunday dinner Hi Nope ......... humble pie for breakfast........ I must say it is nice to be proven wrong in the best way possible... Hopefully it will get recovered by someone very quickly.... cheers Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Has anyone been able to read the number on the rear fuselage? Looks as though it begins with 2. and two other numbers and then (perhaps) another 2? Curtiss constuction number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 So lets hear from all those experts in photo interpretation now... They had every right to be sceptical - I remember the Hitler Diaries. Far better to ask for verification than be deceived by a hoax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeley Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 A shame, there will be little left of it after those gentlemen in the video finish trashing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Just want to clarify my position as regards the throttle; I was in no way suggesting that a fully open throttle implies that it must be fake, only saying that it would be an odd position for a pilot to put it in during a forced landing. I can think of all sorts of reasons why it would end up in that position, none of which provide any evidence either way as to the genuine nature or otherwise of this story. I'm in the 'wait and see' camp.(great info though btw John) On the throttle debate: another possibility to add to Kit builder's good thinking in his post a couple of pages ago. We don't know why the aeroplane crashed, but it may have had a gradual or progressive engine failure, or it may have run out of fuel. The pilot may well have be trying to glide as far as possible in a known direction. If you have a non functioning engine with a non-feathering but constant-speed prop, like this, it will windmill, and you will get maximum glide range and endurance by pulling the prop lever all the way back (min RPM, coarse pitch) and opening the throttle all the way, to minimise the pumping losses. If the windmilling prop is causing the engine to suck against a closed throttle plate it will take more energy out of the aeroplane: a closed throttle makes the windmilling prop much more of an airbrake than if the throttle is open. From 10,000 feet this would easily give you an extra mile or two of glide, and I can well imagine circumstances when I would want that extra mile or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Aereo Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 For all we know he kicked the throttle open when exiting the plane or some Bedouin found the plane and played with it, or a Fennec lived in the wreck 40 years ago and pushed it, i wouldn't elaborate too much on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypnobear Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 A user on flugzeugforum.de found the following links. Videos anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFe8CsOdoG8...;feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9LsK74J_W0 No doubt the poor plane will get ripped apart piece by piece by locals before any plans to recover it could be made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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