Hawker Hunter F.6, XF526, 4 FTS, RAF Valley

[Paul J]

That is coming along real nice. I like the way you have done the backing for the roundels. Look forward to the finished subject.

[canberraman]

Bill

That is really starting to loook the buiness and the flaps and high vis colour scheme make ir a most attractive model.

As for the stencilling, I think the 4FTS birds, in common woth most others in RAF service, included a myriad of trestle point markings on the undersides but the top sides seemed fairly clear of such.

Can't wait to see the finished article.

Mark

[Rich F]

Nice work Bill, where did you get your references from as I can only find a couple of photo's on the net?

I plan on doing the same bird in 1/48 in the future, this is one to bookmark

[SimonR]

This is looking fantastic Bill, great job on the masking and the etch, you have more patience than me to do those flaps!

Cheers

Simon

[StephenMG]

I agree. This is a fantastic Hunter Bill, and the paintwork is absolutely spot-on.

Eduard's instructions on how to assemble the seat harnesses are truly bizarre though, but that's not your fault and doesn't detract from an excellent model, especially when it's buried in the cockpit.

Mark

[AndyC]

Nice masking work Bill and she is going to be a real looker!

[Navy Bird]

StephenMG said:

Eduard's instructions on how to assemble the seat harnesses are truly bizarre though, but that's not your fault and doesn't detract from an excellent model, especially when it's buried in the cockpit.

Mark

 

Hmmm...does this mean that my seat harnesses are in an "unlikely" configuration? I followed Uncle Ed's instructions, of course. I suppose I could change them, if the PE is such that it can be assembled correctly. Do you have any references you could point me to?

 

Cheers,

Bill

[PA18]

GW's/Citadel's Blood Red is an excelent match for Signal Red...I used it on my Lightning....its not a "deep" colour. Have a look at photo's of the Red Arrow's - thats the shade you need to be aiming for.....a bright almost flourescent (in rare British summer sun-light!) red.

I find Xtracolor's/Xtracrylic's "Signal/Red Arrows Red" a shade too orange.

All single seater Hunter canopy's were the same, and cannons and ejector chutes were plated over. The F6's used by 4FTS were ex-front line machines so would have had Sabrina's

Citadel "Bloodred", it's the same as "bloodletter"?

[StephenMG]

Hmmm...does this mean that my seat harnesses are in an "unlikely" configuration? I followed Uncle Ed's instructions, of course. I suppose I could change them, if the PE is such that it can be assembled correctly. Do you have any references you could point me to?

Cheers,

Bill

Yes, the Eduard instructions are at fault and I certainly wasn't having a go at you.

The 2H seat has two separate harnesses - the buff one is the parachute harness and the blue one is the seat harness.

The buff parachute harness has 4 basic straps, the two shoulder straps which emerge from the top of the parachute pack, and the lap straps which emerge from behind the back pad around the pilot's waist. The QRB (the Quick Release Box, i.e. the buckle) is attached to the left hand lap strap. There is also a loop strap which comes up through a hole in the seat cushion - the lap straps go through that loop to stop the wearer falling out of the bottom of the harness.

The blue seat harness again has 4 basic straps. The shoulder straps are attached to the seat just above the parachute pack. The lap straps attach to mounting point on the outside of the seat pan at the rear of the pan. The seat harness QRB is attached to the right hand lap strap. On the 2H there is also a short 'negative G' strap which is mounted behind the lower firing handle and locks in to the QRB.

Now Eduard ask you to attach the blue seat lap straps to the front of the seat pan and lay them up and over the seat cushion for some reason. This is really bizarre and the only explanation I can come up with is that they've mistaken the leg lines for straps. The leg lines are the thin straps which pull the pilot's leg in tight to the front of the pan during ejection. So the 2 lower blue straps and the buff straps should be mounted at more or less the same point, except that the buff ones mount inside the seat pan and the blue ones on the outside.

Also the triangular(ish) pads (items 11) should be blue and should go on the seat strap not the parachute straps.

Pictures being worth a thousand words and all, have a look at the photos of my restored seat here - hopefully it'll help to show what I'm struggling to explain in words!

HTH

Mark

[Navy Bird]

StephenMG said:

Yes, the Eduard instructions are at fault and I certainly wasn't having a go at you.

The 2H seat has two separate harnesses - the buff one is the parachute harness and the blue one is the seat harness.

The buff parachute harness has 4 basic straps, the two shoulder straps which emerge from the top of the parachute pack, and the lap straps which emerge from behind the back pad around the pilot's waist. The QRB (the Quick Release Box, i.e. the buckle) is attached to the left hand lap strap. There is also a loop strap which comes up through a hole in the seat cushion - the lap straps go through that loop to stop the wearer falling out of the bottom of the harness.

The blue seat harness again has 4 basic straps. The shoulder straps are attached to the seat just above the parachute pack. The lap straps attach to mounting point on the outside of the seat pan at the rear of the pan. The seat harness QRB is attached to the right hand lap strap. On the 2H there is also a short 'negative G' strap which is mounted behind the lower firing handle and locks in to the QRB.

Now Eduard ask you to attach the blue seat lap straps to the front of the seat pan and lay them up and over the seat cushion for some reason. This is really bizarre and the only explanation I can come up with is that they've mistaken the leg lines for straps. The leg lines are the thin straps which pull the pilot's leg in tight to the front of the pan during ejection. So the 2 lower blue straps and the buff straps should be mounted at more or less the same point, except that the buff ones mount inside the seat pan and the blue ones on the outside.

Also the triangular(ish) pads (items 11) should be blue and should go on the seat strap not the parachute straps.

Pictures being worth a thousand words and all, have a look at the photos of my restored seat here - hopefully it'll help to show what I'm struggling to explain in words!

HTH

Mark

 

This helps a lot, especially the pictures, thanks! I'll have a look tonight and see if I can make the changes.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Navy Bird]

PA18 said:

Citadel "Bloodred", it's the same as "bloodletter"?

 

Truth in advertising as they say. I think one is a foundation, and one is a glaze?

 

According to the local gaming shop, Citadel have recently replaced their entire line of paints. And, of course, he didn't have any of them. Some of the old colours are still produced, but have different names. He wasn't sure if the formulation had changed at all. Maybe one of our fellow Britmodellers may know? I know that Bill Clark is a big fan of the Blood Red as being a very good match for Signal Red.

 

Here is a site that reviews the new Citadel line, and provides a conversion chart between the old and new colours:

 

Linky

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Navy Bird]

Rich F said:

Nice work Bill, where did you get your references from as I can only find a couple of photo's on the net?

I plan on doing the same bird in 1/48 in the future, this is one to bookmark

 

Hi Rich,

 

I just searched for images on "Hunter 4 FTS" (and similar variations) and found quite a few. Airliners.net, Air Britain, sites like that. You'll also get images of other folks' models (also good for reference) along with die cast and such stuff. I use more than one search engine, as one will fetch some that another will miss. Here is an absolutely beautiful 1:32 build with these same markings:

 

Linky

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Navy Bird]

Hi mates,

 

Well, it's time for stupid mistake number 2!! As I was merrily putting the bird together, I gave no thought at all to the underwing code numbers which are applied over the gear doors. So now I was faced with how to cut up the decals and get them on, without disassembling the landing gear doors. You think I would know this after building so many models!! Oh well...

 

On the Revell decal sheet, the underwing numbers have "cut" lines printed on them, so you can easily cut them to the right shape to fit on the doors, etc. But I wasn't using the kit decals, so I need to find a way to transfer the cut lines onto the decals that I was using. So, I made a photocopy of the Revell decal sheet, and cut up the underwing numbers according to their cut marks. I then laid these cut-out shapes onto my decal, and traced around them with a light pencil (which rubs right off of the decal when you're done).

 

 

I then applied them all, and the plan actually worked! Revell's cut lines were just about perfect in matching the shape of the doors and wheel wells. Here is how she came out:

 

 

Another close call avoided by sheer dumb luck!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[crobinsonh]

Looking very nice, love the Hunter and love the scheme. You are doing a grand job.

Regards

[Navy Bird]

Hi mates,

 

The Eduard photoetch sheet includes very nice (and thin!) antennae that looks like the dual rear fender radio aerials from a 1959 Chevy Impala. These angle back towards the rear of the plane. maybe they are whip antennae? There are three, one on the spine, and one each on the outboard section of each wing. Are these correct for the Flying Training School version that I'm modelling? Thanks.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Smark]

Hi Bill,

I'm afraid I don't know about the antennae, but I do know that this is a crackin' build! I love this scheme and those air brakes are just superb. Great stuff!

Cheers

Mark

[StephenMG]

Hi mates,

The Eduard photoetch sheet includes very nice (and thin!) antennae that looks like the dual rear fender radio aerials from a 1959 Chevy Impala. At the top, these angle back towards the rear of the plane. There are three, one on the spine, and one each on the outboard section of each wing. Are these correct for the Flying Training School version that I'm modelling? Thanks.

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Bill,

As with the seat I'm afraid Eduard's instructions/research leaves a bit to be desired here! The aerial arrangement they have in the instructions are not strictly correct for any mark of Hunter.

For an F.6 of this period you will need the main UHF aerial (which is a 'blade' type) mounted on the spine panel behind the hood. Note this aerial is not mounted centrally but is offset to starboard slightly and leans over that way too, i.e. it is perpendicular to the part of the spine panel that it's mounted on, but not vertical...if you see what I mean! This is generally a dull aluminium colour with a black stripe across it, although depending on the mod state, later aerials were a yellow/buff colour.

You will also need the standby UHF aerial which is a 'whip' type aerial and is mounted on the starboard wing only - you can use one of the Eduard aerials for this and place it in the position they suggest on the starboard wing. This is usually yellow in colour.

There is usually a very small, triangular IFF/SSR aerial mounted about half way along the spine, again offset to starboard on a little 'platform' (but vertical this time). This is an aluminium colour.

You can see both the spine aerials in the photo here www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/hunter/full/starboard_spine.jpg (Britmodeller won't let me link to it for some reason).

Also, my drawing below should give a better idea of where the spine aerials are located,

By the way, please don't use that bizarre handle thing (part 30) that Eduard want you to attach to the inner frame of the hood - there is no such thing on a Hunter!

HTH,

Mark

Edited April 29, 2012 by StephenMG

[Navy Bird]

StephenMG said:

Hi Bill,

As with the seat I'm afraid Eduard's instructions/research leaves a bit to be desired here! The aerial arrangement they have in the instructions are not strictly correct for any mark of Hunter.

For an F.6 of this period you will need the main UHF aerial (which is a 'blade' type) mounted on the spine panel behind the hood. Note this aerial is not mounted centrally but is offset to starboard slightly and leans over that way too, i.e. it is perpendicular to the part of the spine panel that it's mounted on, but not vertical...if you see what I mean! This is generally a dull aluminium colour with a black stripe across it, although depending on the mod state, later aerials were a yellow/buff colour.

You will also need the standby UHF aerial which is a 'whip' type aerial and is mounted on the starboard wing only - you can use one of the Eduard aerials for this and place it in the position they suggest on the starboard wing. This is usually yellow in colour.

There is usually a very small, triangular IFF/SSR aerial mounted about half way along the spine, again offset to starboard on a little 'platform' (but vertical this time). This is an aluminium colour.

You can see both the spine aerials in the photo here www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/hunter/full/starboard_spine.jpg (Britmodeller won't let me link to it for some reason).

Also, my drawing below should give a better idea of where the spine aerials are located,

By the way, please don't use that bizarre handle thing (part 30) that Eduard want you to attach to the inner frame of the hood - there is no such thing on a Hunter!

HTH,

Mark

 

Great stuff, Mark, thanks! All of the 4 FTS Hunter pictures that I've found have the yellow/buff blade antenna, that will be easy to add. XF526 has the small triangular antenna on the spine, and it appears to be mounted on a fairing that comes off the starboard side of the spine - it some photos, this looks like a bump. This also agrees with your advice! I have two photos of XF526, one in this scheme in 1973 and one as she appears today in some farmer's field, and a section of the spine just forward of the small triangular antenna is painted in what looks like a buff or tan color. I've not seen this on any others - what is it?

 

Some of the photos also show a similar triangular antenna on the fuselage centerline in the center of the anti-glare paint in front of the canopy. Easy to add, but I can't tell if XF526 had one. Any ideas?

 

Thanks to Bill Clark, I now have the ERU fairings to add to the wings, plus I have photographic confirmation that they were indeed on XF526 when she was in this scheme. And thanks to Mark for the good advice on Eduard part 30 - I was just about to add that!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[StephenMG]

Great stuff, Mark, thanks! All of the 4 FTS Hunter pictures that I've found have the yellow/buff blade antenna, that will be easy to add. XF526 has the small triangular antenna on the spine, and it appears to be mounted on a fairing that comes off the starboard side of the spine - it some photos, this looks like a bump. This also agrees with your advice! I have two photos of XF526, one in this scheme in 1973 and one as she appears today in some farmer's field, and a section of the spine just forward of the small triangular antenna is painted in what looks like a buff or tan color. I've not seen this on any others - what is it?

Some of the photos also show a similar triangular antenna on the fuselage centerline in the center of the anti-glare paint in front of the canopy. Easy to add, but I can't tell if XF526 had one. Any ideas?

Thanks to Bill Clark, I now have the ERU fairings to add to the wings, plus I have photographic confirmation that they were indeed on XF526 when she was in this scheme. And thanks to Mark for the good advice on Eduard part 30 - I was just about to add that!

Cheers,

Bill

You're very welcome. Glad to be able to help.

I don't think that 'buff' section of the spine is anything to worry about. There's certainly nothing special about that bit of spine on a Hunter so I suspect it's just a bit of 'new' primer or a repair patch or something. Don't forget, '526 was a GIA (Ground Instructional Airframe) after retirement (note the 8679M maintenance serial) so all sorts of things were no doubt done to it - such as the replacement fin.

The triangular aerial you note in front of the windscreen on some Hunters is the same IFF/SSR aerial as on the spine of '526. On the late Hunters (i.e. virtually all of the FGA.9s) it was relocated from the spine to the nose. I don't believe '526 had it.

Mark

Edited April 30, 2012 by StephenMG

[periklis_sale]

Great Work Bill!

:clap2:

[Navy Bird]

Hi Mates,

 

It's time to finish this build up! Wasn't much left to do, and I started by following Mark's advice and re-doing the seat straps. The way that Eduard has you install them doesn't make any sense compared to the real thing. So here is the seat after changing the straps around (sorry for the crummy shot):

 

 

After a final coat of clear gloss was put over the top of the decals, I masked those areas that would be matte black (the anti-glare panel, etc.) and painted them with ModelMaster Flat Black. Then I dipped the canopies in Future, let them dry for a couple of days and then painted the frames black followed by white and then red. I finished up the 100 gallon drop tanks and added to the wings. I mounted the air brake in a slightly open position (completely non-authentic, but it adds some detail).

 

Using Mark's references, I added a small shelf for the small IFF antenna followed by the antenna itself. It's odd tha Revell gives you the antenna but it is not mentioned in the instructions, nor is the proper little shelf part of the spine. The main UHF antenna was taken from an old True Details photoetch set, painted buff (using my photo references) and added to the spine. It's slightly off to the starboard side and leans a bit that way also. Last was the ERU fairings (thanks Bill!) and the standby UHF whip aerial on the starboard wing.

 

So here she is, I think she looks nice! Enjoy the photos!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Bill

Edited March 2, 2018 by Navy Bird
Photobucket Eradication

[StephenMG]

Bravo Sir!

[Rich F]

A truely crackin build, well done Bill!

Edited May 4, 2012 by Rich F

[Vulcanicity]

What a super Hunter! You've really done a fine job on this one

[Paul J]

Very Nice sir! Glad I can't take pictures of mine as it would be overshadowed.