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British WW2 tank colors


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#1 Master Zen

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:08 PM

Hello all,

I'm mostly an aircraft guy but I got quite a number of 72 scale tanks in the 'tash. I am wondering about British WW2 colors. I assume that most Lend-Lease tanks (i.e. Shermans) were painted in US Olive Drab but what about normal British-designed tanks like the Churchill or Crusader? They seem to be a greener green than olive drab (RAF dark green by any chance?). Also, what about late-war tanks? The Cromwells and Comets seem Olive Drab too.

Also, about desert tanks, can I use British Gulf War sand (XTtracylix) as a suitable alternative?

#2 John

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:24 PM

All you ever need to know is in here :

http://www.mafva.net...tarmer camo.htm

John

#3 Lothian man

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

Hello all,

I'm mostly an aircraft guy but I got quite a number of 72 scale tanks in the 'tash. I am wondering about British WW2 colors. I assume that most Lend-Lease tanks (i.e. Shermans) were painted in US Olive Drab but what about normal British-designed tanks like the Churchill or Crusader? They seem to be a greener green than olive drab (RAF dark green by any chance?). Also, what about late-war tanks? The Cromwells and Comets seem Olive Drab too.

Also, about desert tanks, can I use British Gulf War sand (XTtracylix) as a suitable alternative?


In essence, yes (until they were reworked, especially Fireflies which should be in the British Olive Drab), yes (a bit greener, not RAF dark green though and definitely not Humbrol 30!) and no (different colour as far as I know). But that is a simplification. Do have a look at Mike Starmer's self-published books on British armour camouflage of WW2, which have proper (not printed) colour chips. They will explain all you need and give some really interesting options (e.g. there is more than one sand-type colour, and there are different colours on early and mid-war tanks in NW Europe). Mike also does transfers for Brit WW2 armour as well. I think White Ensign sell them, or you can get them direct from Mike - he posts on this forum so you should be able to PM him.

The MAFVA and Matador Models websites are also worth a look.

#4 Troy Smith

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:29 AM

Hello all,

I'm mostly an aircraft guy but I got quite a number of 72 scale tanks in the 'tash. I am wondering about British WW2 colors. I assume that most Lend-Lease tanks (i.e. Shermans) were painted in US Olive Drab but what about normal British-designed tanks like the Churchill or Crusader? They seem to be a greener green than olive drab (RAF dark green by any chance?). Also, what about late-war tanks? The Cromwells and Comets seem Olive Drab too.

Also, about desert tanks, can I use British Gulf War sand (XTtracylix) as a suitable alternative?


As John says, read the MAFVA site....

but in short, 1941-42 Khaki Green No.3

42-early 44 SSC.2 brown

44 onwards SCC15 olive

There are some great colours pic showing Khaki Green Covanaters' [IIRC] and Churchill's in SCC2 with Tarmac disruptive patches...
like this ...

Posted Image


but for acrylic, if you want accurate, and can stand some mixing.... and, durn, I note the one colour you really want 'SCC15 British Olive ' is not here in the Tamiya mix.... which a quick google turns up....here of course!

Tamiya SCC.15 again, new mix

Prompted by the recent enquiry about using Tamiya XF-81 as the British Olive Drab I procured a bottle a short while back and after some extensive trials came up with a more accurate rendition of the much loved (or loathed ) colour. I am pleased to tell that this is easier to make that the previous mix. 5 prts XF81 +1 prt XF58 + 1 prt 71. Thisis a fraction lighter than the standard which makes life a little easier for many no doubt.




Tamiya mix : SCC No.2 (brown) September 18 2009 at 4:46 PM
I got there at last thank goodness, and what a job that was too, only 120+ test shots. This colour replaced Khaki Green 3 as the basic colour from late 1941 and remained in use right through to the end of the war although replaced on vehicles for NWE in about March 1944 on. Also on vehicles from U.K. and Canada send to M.E. in 1943-45. In the MTP46 scheme you can put Dark Tarmac, SCC 1A dark brown or SCC 14 black over this.

Mix: 5pts XF68 + 4pts XF3 + 1pt XF1. The result is just a fraction strong on the red so go careful and do not overdo the black as even a slight touch too much darkens the result a great deal. Should be OK with some medium grey added for scale effect.
And that wraps it!


Here are Mr. Starmer's British paint mix posts, plus one by Alan Brown, as they originally appeared on this forum. I've been cut and pasting them into a text file since he began posting them.

Most are for Tamiya paints, but a couple are Vallejo. I didn't add the names of the paints, if you need that, go to
http://www.tamiyausa...hp?sub-id=60200 and
http://www.acrylicos...m...p;p3=1&p4=0

for Enamel versions of these colors go tohttp://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm

Tamiya mix Nobels Khaki Green No.3/ G3 & Dark Green

Just what the new Bronco kit owners need. Khaki Green 3 was the new basic colour from mid-1939 till phased out in 1941. But also may be used as an alternative colour in lieu of Slate 34 in the Caunter scheme.
Mix: - 3 pts XF62 + 2 pts XF59.
The resulting colour is slightly less rich than a sample matched to an original motorcycle part and slightly less brown than on a steel helmet in original colour, so a good average.

Dark Green G4: - mix 3 x XF61 + 2 pts XF58. No original colour found; yet.
This was the colour specified in MTP 20 for use in scheme 1 for 'average European conditions'. This colour is matched to the colour that I use over Khaki Green 3 and which is based on the use of complimenary hues and low contrast values seen on numerous contemporary photographs and what few colour photographs exist for 1940 period vehicles.


**Vallejo mix: SCC15 British Olive WWII**(by Alan Brown)

Mix equal parts of 70888 Olive Grey [92] + 70924 Russian Uniform WWII [094] and VIOLA! there you have it.

Tamiya mix : BS.28 Silver Grey

There is going to be at least one happy bunny out there now. This is the official colour used as one of the disrupters with Slate in the 'Caunter' scheme. In use on all types of AFVs and other vehicles in Egypt from mid to late 1940 till cancelled in December 1941.
Mix: 7pts XF21 + 1pt XF19 +1pt XF4. Be careful with XF4 as even a little too much will throw this colour far too green. Err on the light side. I got this yesterday and ran a couple of test shots today.

Tamiya mix : SCC No,7 green


A bit obscure this colour but I found it during trials. Produced solely as a bituminious emulsion for use on canvas tilts and tentage which at thetime were natural canvas colour or dyed Khaki Green. The colour first appears in August 1941 for use as the basic colour on vehicle canvases because the enamel paints rotted the fabic. The order specifies SCC.1A as the disrupter. Bodywork remained Khaki Green 3 and Dark Green 4 in the striped patterning. Four coloured camo on softskins? Yes. In addition this could also be used on the fabic penthouses attached to the sides on command vehicles and tents where their colour was green, i.e. NWE.
Mix: 1pt XF62 + 1pt XF67 + 1pt XF3. A tweak more XF3 is not bad.

SCC 1A dark brown Tamiya mix


Next up, the dark brown colour used over SCC 2 brown and SCC 15 Olive Drab from 1941, officially replaced by Black but still well in evidence in 1945 on many softskins in NWE and Italy till 1945.
Mix: 7 pts XF10 + 2 pts XF1. This is very close to the standard so a small touch of mid grey is needed for your models. In case you are wondering I have not yet been able to formulate a satisfactory SCC 2.

BS 64 Portland Stone Tamiya colours


OK the next desert colour. BS 64 Portland Stone Tamiya mix:
6 pts XF2 + 1 pt XF3 + 1 pt XF57. It could stand a fraction more XF2 and perhaps a fraction less XF57 but if I tweaked it then the proportions of the other colours would be realy silly.

BS 61 Light Stone, Tamiya mix


Having recently acquired most of the Tamiya matt colours I an slowly working my way through to finding mixes that match or as close as possible to the British WW 2 colours. So first success is BS 61 Light Stone as used from 1940 till 1943.
Mix: - 7 pts XF2 + 2 pts XF59 + 2 pts XF3.
The result may shock some modellers but it is just slighlty lighter than my 1930 sample, certainly near enough. Watch this space, more to come, I hope.


SCC 13 mix


I found this by trial and error, mostly error, testing for another colour. Generally refered to as 'jungle green'. This colour was used in India and Burma on British and Commonwealth vehicles from about late 1942 - 1945 so your Chinese & Indian Sherman Vs and M3 Lees can be real dull now, as can many softskins too.
It would have helped.
If I had written the mix too, i got distracted by the smell of toast.
Mix 2 pts XF51 + 1 pt XF61 + 1 pt XF3.



Light Mud mix


OK here is the next one for Tamiya fans. This mix is between my book sample and SCC 5, the best that I could manage easily but since it was a theatre colour then there must have been some variations.
Mix: 4pts XF55 + 2pts XF49 + 1pt XF66. It could take up to another 1/2 pt of XF55.
Used in Tunisia in small amounts from March 1943 then specified as the basic colour for a lot of British and Commonwealth vehicles finished in the set camouflage designs in Sicily and Italy till 1945. Use XF69 Nato Black as the disrupter over this.



Vallejo mixes SCC 2 brown and SCC1A dark brown

These colours were the basic and disruptive colours respectively used from 1941 in UK and on vehicles in Tunisia, Sicily and Italy till end of the war in many cases. SCC1A was also used over SCC 15 in 1944-45.
SCC 2 brown: 3pts 871 + 2pts 873 basic olour.

SCC1A; 5pts 822 + 1pt 871. Disruptive colour, later not entirely replaced by SCC14 black.


Tamiya mix : Dark Tarmac No.4


This is the colour that replaced Dark Green G4 in the spring or summer of 1941. Applied initially as stripes as per MTP 20 then later in the MTP46/4A style. In turn replaced by SCC1A and then SCC14 black.

This colour is provisional since I use Revell 78 and this mix is very close. In turn it is based on Steve Guthrie's description of a sample in the Canadian archives he has examined and compared with some test samples that I sent to him and a colour photograph and some film footage seen on ML last year. Sorry but the best that can do so far.
Mix: 1prt XF24 + 1prt XF69.


Tamiya mix : BS.34 Slate

At last the final colour for Caunter. After a lot of failed attempts it has turned out to be an easy mix. This colour was specified as the darkest colour to be used on vehicles painted with the Caunter scheme. Came into use in 1940 and apparently retained as one of the alternative colours to be used with the 1942 patterns.
Mix: 1prt XF24 + 1 prt XF4. This is a fraction dark compared to the standard but a touch of white or light grey will tone it down.



Tamiya mix : Desert Pink


This proved difficult but this mix will do the job for you. The actual colour is provisional anyway and since it was locally manufactured then there must be some variations of shade. The colour was specified for general use as a basic colour in the October 1942 orders just prior to the Alamein battles but there is documentary evidence of it's use by LRDG as early as May 1942 perhaps as practical field trials. Phased out of use after the end of the North African campaign in May 1943 and replaced by Light Mud as the new M.E. basic colour.
Mix: 5pts XF2 + 5pts XF15 + 1 prt XF52. Be careful with XF52 as too much will turn your resulting colour too mauve. Desert Pink needs of a definite pale pink appearance. The mix may benefit from a touch more white.


Tamiya Desert Pink 2

See below for original posting and apology, I wrote a proportion wrongly there.
Mix is 5pts XF2 + 5pts XF15 + 1 pt XF52


Mike really does bother, just found this while looking for the Churchill pic..
http://www.britmodel...showtopic=68676

'The museum painted vehicles and artwork in books are not accurate, which is why they look so different.'

Quite so. Some years ago I was at Bovington watching their painter outside applying markings to their brown Churchill. The colour was brown but not SCC 2. I asked how they went about deciding the colour of this exhibit. The reply? Well we were told they were sort of dark brown so we went to B&Q and found something that we thought about right. There was no need to guess, they have a copy of BS.987C in their archive. But colour is not important to the staff there and no one it appears is interested enough to bother. They do however have copies of my books.

On the subject of mixes. One of the problems of using model paints is that they are all mixtures to start with. So when setting out to create a new mix one has to select a possible suitable base colour and then find something which will achieve the desired result keeping in mind that some colours may have a tint of a strong primary colour in them in small undetectable amounts that will throw off the resulting mix. Greys in particular are never neutrals they always have something else in them which messes up the resulting mix. Blue is a colour which needs careful use as the primary pigment can be iron oxide (Prussian Blue) which is green or Ultramarine which is yellow. What ever you add to them is going to be biased either way. Reds are purple or yellow based too.


HTH
T