1/72 C-130 Hercules - Airfix kit started

[CarLos]

A friend gave me today the kit - Airfix 09004 - and although it seems an Airfix kit I'm not sure if it isn't an Italeri re-release. Inside the wings is engraved "(COPYRIGHT) CPG PRODUCTS CORP 1984"

Are the Aviation News plans of the C-130 by Mike Keep credible, or are there better ones?

Thanks for any answers!

Carlos

Edited March 8, 2012 by CarLos

[Gmat]

Some info to that may help you. Italeri didn't release an AC-130H but did release an AC-130A. The kit that you have should be the old Airfix C-130E/K retooled to become an AC-130H. It may look disappointing. Italeri did a better job on the the detailing of the parts on their basic kit than Airfix did when they retooled their kit. Overall if you aren't too concerned with some accuracy issues, (fuselage, engines) then the Italeri kit parts look better. ESCI did an AC-130U that included unused parts for a 105mm version of the AC-130H.

Best wishes,

Grant

[Simon Cornes]

Hi Carlos,

I agree Grant's points. This was repopped when Airfix had been bought by Palitoy I think. I renovated an original and the engines are the main problem. I used Flightpath replacements but I think Heritage also do a set. The biggest problem then is the propellors, which were fine in 1969 or whenever but not so great by modern standards. Regarding the nacelles. I chopped the kit cowlings off at the fire wall and then removed about 4mm from all of them horizontally to get the right depth compared with the resin replacements. This then gives you issues with the exhausts but they're on the underside and I don't look underneath very often! I keep thinking that the ideal thing would be to make a set of moulds using the ESCI/AMT/Italeri nacelles and then cast resin replacements. I'm surprised no one has done it!

Regarding plans, well the Mike Keep plans are good enough I think and I'm pretty certain they are in the Warpaint publication anyway(not the original one which has no plans).

There are some good things though. The Airfix kit is the only Herc with the correct fuselage cross section - there is a 'chine' at cargo bay floor level if you look at the photos and ESCI missed that off.

Think of this as a challenge, it was free and, even if you bought, it would be lot cheaper than the ESCI version!

Simon

[CarLos]

Thank you Grant and Simon. I already read other threads on the C-130 and it seems to have a good deal of disagreement among modelers about C-130 models. I also have an Italeri kit in my "outlying stash", must get it to compare the kits and make my own opinion.

One thing I already noticed about the Airfix kit: the two tall windows bellow the cockpit should be vertical and not oblique as in the kit. I can anticipate a considerable rework of that area... Anyway, I want to make a civil aircraft, so a great deal of work in the sponsons must be made.

Thanks again!

Carlos

[CarLos]

I compared the Airfix kit with the Italeri one and here are the main differences I spotted. I concentrated on the general accuracy of the parts and not on the details. And this is not exhaustive, of course, but I hope it helps someone who had the same doubts I had before doing this.

If the scale drawings by Mike Keep can be believed, then both kits are reasonably accurate in side view; You could mate an Airfix half with an Italeri one and have only a few differences. In plan view the wings are good, however there is a small difference in the Airfix kit in the position of the engines. I didn't compare the tail planes.

In cross section the kits are also similar, but the Airfix one is better as it has the prominent wrinkle at the position of floor. The Italeri kit doesn't have it.

The Italeri bulkhead above the Airfix one, showing the slight difference between both:

And side by side:

Should the portion of the fuselage behind the port entry door have a constant cross section? Several kit reviews say yes, however the photo in my previous post makes me think that it can't be so. Look at the blue reflection at the fuselage side and let me know what you think. Anyway, both kits are incorrect in cross section bellow the cockpit windows - note how the tall windows should be vertical and not oblique as in both kits. The radar nose should also not have the smooth integration in the fuselage as in both kits.

More photos:

The top view doesnt show great differences between the Italeri kit (at left) and the Airfix one.

Here the Airfix kit is at left. The end tip of the Italeri kit is better being larger, both kits are wrong in the top profile of the fin and fillet in front - refer once more to the factory photo above. Apparently the fillet has a section of constant width, enlarging where it meets the fin.

The oblique windows that should be vertical: (Airfix / Italeri)

See this one, for example:

Not very noticeable the wrinkle of the Airfix kit (left) from this angle.

Differences at the rear. Must investigate more about the details.

As a conclusion, both kits are old and could be better. However, I think that a good model can be made using these if the most obvious errors are corrected. These include the floor wrinkle in the Italeri kit (easy to do, see bellow), a better definition of the intersection of the noses with the fuselage in both kits and the same for the intersection wing-fuselage in the Airfix kit. Fin fillet? Live with it, or spend a few hours around it.

The engines in both kits are crap, so you must replace them with aftermarket or scratch new ones. The Airfix kit has the extra problem of vertical position of the inner engines - as the wing is thicker there, the inner engine carenage should protrude less in the top surface of the wing than the outer ones. See this photo for reference:

For me, the raised panel detail is a bless in not perfect kits. It's far easier to scrap or sand it than to fill incorrect or exaggerated panel detail. In my case I'll have the extra work of retro-converting the Airfix gunship back into a "normal" C-130. I already made the wrinkes in the Italeri kit and it only took about 20 minutes to glue strips of 0.75 square plastic, fill the edges with CA - talc mix and sand with wet wet'n'dry paper.

Not yet finished, but this easy mod makes some difference...

Please feel free to add comments and point some aspects that may have escaped me. And if someone wants to add photos of the Esci kit...

Carlos

[Jennings Heilig]

Are the Aviation News plans of the C-130 by Mike Keep credible, or are there better ones?

I've given up trying to find accurate C-130 plans. The ones in the Daco book are okay, but still not great. The Mike Keep plans are so-so at best.

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

Thanks for the comparison CarLos. Just a note that you are comparing the factory picture of a C-130J-30 with the moulds for a C-130E. Things have changed between the the first C-130s and the C-130J Hercules II. I am not sure about the fin fillet but it may need more investigation.

Also thanks for the demo on how to incorporated the the floor crease on the Italeri kit. I have a couple of the Airfix original C-130 kits as well as more than a couple Italeri C-130E/Js that I will build one day. In fact I am working on a C-130H from the Italeri kit at the moment with appropriate aftermarket parts to fix it up as much as I can.

[CarLos]

Thanks for the comparison CarLos. Just a note that you are comparing the factory picture of a C-130J-30 with the moulds for a C-130E. Things have changed between the the first C-130s and the C-130J Hercules II. I am not sure about the fin fillet but it may need more investigation.

Thanks for pointing this. I'll try to find similar photos or earlier models.

Also thanks for the demo on how to incorporated the the floor crease on the Italeri kit. I have a couple of the Airfix original C-130 kits as well as more than a couple Italeri C-130E/Js that I will build one day. In fact I am working on a C-130H from the Italeri kit at the moment with appropriate aftermarket parts to fix it up as much as I can.

In fact it is compromise regarding accuracy... As the Italeri front doesn't have a constant cross section the strips are not parallel in plan view but in side view they are parallel with the line of the fuselage.

[CarLos]

I already started transforming the Airfix AC-130 into a C-130H in order to make the following civil Hercules:

(more info of this aircraft here: http://www.eol.ucar.edu/about/our-organization/raf)

There's still lots of work to do - it would be easier to use another kit, but this one was a chalenge... Anyway, I will use the upper wing halfs of the Airfix kit with the Italeri lower halfs, because I had these as spare. Already cut the nacelles of the Airfix kit and I would like to scratch new engines (yes, I know of the Flyghtpath ones but I would like not to use aftermarket in this one). Can anybody help with detailed drawings of the nacelles, preferably quoted drawings from manuals?

Some photos of my progress here: C-130 model progress album in Photobucket

Thanks in advance for any help!

Carlos

[Flyboy72nd]

Very good info here guys.

A word of waring; you are best to reinforce the wings with a metal rod/tube (or any shape of your choice) as the wings may sag after a while!!

A long time ago I built an Airfix Herc and then read on line somewhere that a chap had cracks at his wing/fuse joints. I checked my kit and sure enough it was cracked in the same place!! He removed his wings and added a brass tube and glued the wings back in place. I was able to do the same and plan to add a tube on all my future Herc kits (all Italeri) so that this problem does not oocur down the road! The other side of this is that if your joint in the fuse is not good it may crack from the weight of the wings not supported by any landing gear!!

HTH

[CarLos]

Very good info here guys.

A word of waring; you are best to reinforce the wings with a metal rod/tube (or any shape of your choice) as the wings may sag after a while!!

A long time ago I built an Airfix Herc and then read on line somewhere that a chap had cracks at his wing/fuse joints. I checked my kit and sure enough it was cracked in the same place!! He removed his wings and added a brass tube and glued the wings back in place. I was able to do the same and plan to add a tube on all my future Herc kits (all Italeri) so that this problem does not oocur down the road! The other side of this is that if your joint in the fuse is not good it may crack from the weight of the wings not supported by any landing gear!!

HTH

Thanks, I will make a rigid spar to avoid the wing sagging problem. I also have a bulge in the underside of the port fuselage caused by the plastic card used to reinforce the inside. Must take care of it also...

Carlos

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

Nice to see a Civil Herc buuild going. I had a look on Airliners.net and found a few nice pictures of N130AR. As for plans of T56 engines, good luck! I don't think you will have much luck....

Edited March 9, 2012 by TrojanThunder