Charles Dykas Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Gents...I've searched about a bit, but I'm sure that one of you knows this info straight away..Just the general color for the cockpit and the ejection seats. I got the rest under control. Thanks again. Edited December 10, 2011 by Charles Dykas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Gents...I've searched about a bit, but I'm sure that one of knows this info straight away..Just the general color for the cockpit and the ejection seats. I got the rest under control. Thanks again. Pretty much the same as USN Phantoms! If the RAF operate US aircraft they usually paint them to US specs. The seats are martin Baker seats in all 'Tooms anyway and are finished to the same standard (there may be equipment differences but the basic seat is the basic seat). There may be some panels in the nearest equivalent colour - dark admiralty grey but it's a pretty similar colour anyway. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Gents...I've searched about a bit, but I'm sure that one of knows this info straight away..Just the general color for the cockpit and the ejection seats. I got the rest under control. Thanks again. Seats as per http://www.ejectionsite.com/frame_sg.htm which is a gold mine. Main colour for the cockpit is officially FS36231 with black panels, but best bet is to match to pictures, googling will pick up loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 If the RAF operate US aircraft they usually paint them to US specs. Wez British phantoms in BS colours USN Phantoms in FS colours. We dont try and paint to US Specs we have our own. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) British phantoms in BS colours USN Phantoms in FS colours. We dont try and paint to US Specs we have our own.Julien For the exteriors I'd agree with but not the interiors. If the interiors are close enough we keep them that way, British produced bits will be painted in British colours that are the closest to the American spec but not necessarily a spot on match. US produced bits will come in US colours - it would cost more to get them painted in British colours, why? Because to change the paint spec requires a drawing change - the cost of the drawing change is spread across the number of spares and puts up the unit cost, to change the paint say from dark gull gray to dark admiralty grey which are pretty close to each other in the grand scheme of things isn't worth the extra cost. If a part is repaired or touched up it's likely to be done so in the nearest BS match but new parts would be supplied in the US colours. Wez Edited December 10, 2011 by Wez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 For the exteriors I'd agree with but not the interiors. If the interiors are close enough we keep them that way, British produced bits will be painted in British colours that are the closest to the American spec but not necessarily a spot on match. US produced bits will come in US colours - it would cost more to get them painted in British colours, why? Because to change the paint spec requires a drawing change - the cost of the drawing change is spread across the number of spares and puts up the unit cost, to change the paint say from dark gull gray to dark admiralty grey which are pretty close to each other in the grand scheme of things isn't worth the extra cost.Wez You argument only holds water if you use logic. However logic should never be applied to MOD procurement / spending etc. Having worked in the defence industry, in a drawing office as a draughtsman & loftsman I am aware of how much it costs to issue a single change to a drawing and the impact it has. I have also seen the MOD(N) change drawings for all sorts of reasons, a lot an awful more silly than a paint colour! Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom56 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hi Guys, Just my two-pennies worth on the Mighty F-4 question. All the F-4's were manufactured in St Louis, Missouri by McAir and the standard interior colour was USN Dark Gull Gray, with a variation over the years on the quilt work sides. These varied from Green/Gray to a silvery Gray colour as in the F-4E. Even on the RAF/RN FGR.2/FG.1/F-4J (UK) F.3 the FS colours were used. Over the years of re-work at St.Athans BS Dark Admiralty Gray was substituted for the FS colours. So in hine- sight you are both correct. The 15 RAF ex USN F-4J are a colour in question, they were sprayed at NAS North Island, San Diego, California to the Standard BS colours but with FS equivalent paint numbers, the hue was so different that the Barley Gray looked somewhat Turqouis in appearance and this being due to painting over Yellow Zinc Chromate. Bri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hi Guys,Just my two-pennies worth on the Mighty F-4 question. All the F-4's were manufactured in St Louis, Missouri by McAir and the standard interior colour was USN Dark Gull Gray, with a variation over the years on the quilt work sides. These varied from Green/Gray to a silvery Gray colour as in the F-4E. Even on the RAF/RN FGR.2/FG.1/F-4J (UK) F.3 the FS colours were used. Over the years of re-work at St.Athans BS Dark Admiralty Gray was substituted for the FS colours. So in hine- sight you are both correct. The 15 RAF ex USN F-4J are a colour in question, they were sprayed at NAS North Island, San Diego, California to the Standard BS colours but with FS equivalent paint numbers, the hue was so different that the Barley Gray looked somewhat Turqouis in appearance and this being due to painting over Yellow Zinc Chromate. Bri. Precisely! As originally built completely to US standards! Any replacement part from the US in final finish to US standards! Any parts reworked/touched-up/repaired likely to be done using BS paints - is there much difference between dark gull gray and dark admiralty grey - not much, it's very subtle and certainly for a scale model you could get away using one colour or the other! 1:1 scale they're very close and I defy any layman not armed with a FS/BS fandeck to tell the difference! The same paint can vary drastically in hue depending on how it was applied, paint batch, how well it was mixed - the same in real life as it is in modelling. Parts direct from the manufacturer in primer finish would likely have been finished with BS paints, those in their final finish would not be repainted. This is why cockpits of aircraft that have been in service for any length of time don't have a uniform finish, they're a patchwork of different colours and sheens. I know we have our own standards but we really, really don't insist on equipment matching those exactly if they're close enough. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I can give you a 100% guarantee that when they left St. Louis, both RAF and RN Phantoms had cockpits painted FS 36231. I have a detailed paint spec sheet from McDD that says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin @ RAM Models Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 We have been out photographing Phantom FGR's for a forthcoming UK Phantom Walkaround Cd. We will be adding it to the range of walkaround Cd's that we produce during 2012. A sneak shot of part of the cockpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Here's the office of the RAFM's example....... Hope these help. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Here's the office of the RAFM's example....... Hmmm... Them photo's look familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom56 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 What an interesting subject on the go, I'd say it's a case of scale effect as well, one thing I tend to use is Halfords good old Gray primer for a majority of my US/Brit made aircraft interiors and once you pick out all the detail it looks absolutely fine (well to me!). The Firebirds pictures are a classic example I'd say, with the flash on them the look light and with it off visa-versa. If anyone is lucky enough to have a swash of the FS/BS cards I'd recommend wetting you figure and wiping over the surface of the colour in question and that should give you a good idea of the actual finished item. Some of the 19/92 Squadron birds from RAFG had a special button in the cockpit as well, which I believe is still on the classified list! Bri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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