Jazzy Jase Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Does anyone have any information on this aircraft? I've started building my Revell Lancaster and I'm intending to build this particular aircraft using the Aeromaster Decals. I don't have any books on the subject, so I've done some internet research and found a few pictures and a brief history. As far as I can tell, the aircraft is a B Mk1. According to Revell's instructions, the Mk1 had the shorter nose blister, but from the pictures I have found it certainly looks like the longer blister. None of the pictures show enough of the side of the aircraft, so I cannot tell if the side windows were painted over. The drawing on the decals suggests they were not. Any info would be gratefully accepted. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Hi If you have pictures go with those as due to retro fitting various changed saying a MkI is a MkI doesn't really count. Props changed, blisters changed, no I'd go with the piccies if I were you Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jase Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 Here's the pics I found. Definitely looks like the larger nose bubble to me and I can't tell if it has side windows or not. Any idea why the paint is very light around the exhausts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avro683 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) The paint is light around the exhausts due to petrol staining. AFAIK you are correct in saying "Prune" was a Mk I but be careful as there were two "Prunes", the only difference in the scheme being the "II" painted above and slightly to the right of the name as you look at it. I have the Modellers datafile on the Lanc so if you have any further queries please ask. Tony Edited September 30, 2008 by avro683 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The white areas were caused by the engines being "leaned out," to give extended range; this tended to give this characteristic streaking. You'll often see a white central streak, in the centre of the darker sooty streak, on the overwing weathering. Due to the dihedral of the outer wing panels, though, the three innermost streaks were more prominent, since the exhaust furthest outboard went underneath the wing, not over it. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Sorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone noticed the Manchester in the background in pics 1 and 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Hi Sorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone noticed the Manchester in the background in pics 1 and 3? Yes I did indeed, very interesting Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 HiSorry to hijack the thread, but has anyone noticed the Manchester in the background in pics 1 and 3? Yes I did indeed, very interesting Regards Paul And in the first picture,third to the right with his hat on the back of his head and thumbs hooked in his belt is Gibbo himself. That Manchester doesn't look to be carrying a "ZN" code either. You've got a fair bit to go on there actually. I'd say it's the first "Prune" that GG had and,apart from the nose blister,has quite a few Mk.I characteristics. The small astrodome,pitot head in the forward position by the nose blister and narrow bladed propellers,all in the Revell kit. I'd say that H2S isn't fitted either because there's an observation blister behind the drivers' window(open,erk in the seat).If H2S was fitted the box was usually behind the pilot's seat and the observation blister replaced with a flat panel(cut down on drag). The Rebecca aerials are also not fitted(the "TV" types just aft of the nose turret),but the towel rail on the rear port fuselage would be.(Blind Landing System antenna) The longer nose blister (B.III)was very nearly always retro fitted to B.I's,both at M.U's and at Avro's,because being longer in length it had a flatter optical panel which was a lot better to sight through,it doesn't look as though "Z" equipment is fitted and if you can blow up and "clean" the second picture,you just might be able to tell whether the oval or or oblong observation window is fitted behind the nose blister. Personally I'd probably maybe go with the oval one,but if you can find evidence then so much the better. The fuselage windows could just possibly be unpainted too. I hope that helps you out a bit.Post some pics of your build too if you can. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lanc Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 WOW Fantastic pictures and colour too ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jase Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Thanks for all the help guys. So far I've painted the interior. Even that was a headache as there are so many different opinions on what colours it should be. I'm not too bothered really as once it's all together most of it won't be visible. If anyone is interested I will post pictures as I progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I've got evil plans to make 'Prune myself I'd put them by years ago, however, as I checked her serial number against a book (The Lancaster Story I think ) that listed the production batches and because the aircraft was an early one I guesstimated that she would have the fuselage windows and I didn't want to risk ruining my Airfix Lancaster I build 'AS-B' from the same Aeromaster sheet's you must be using Jazzy Jase I think! Hope that's of some help Sorry I don't know much more than that to give you a definate answer. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) This is what the boys over at the Lancaster Archive forum have come up with jase: W4118 was delivered to 106 squadron (ZN.Y) on 6 August 1942. 17 October 1942. Flown by Wing/Co G.P.Gibson during the daylight attack on the power station at Montchanin. 22/23 October 1942. Flown by Wing/Co G.P.Gibson on a raid to Genoa. 18/19 November 1942. Flown by Wing/Co G.P.Gibson on a raid to Turin. 4/5 February 1943. Flown by Sgt D.L.Thompson RCAF. Crashed due to both port engines failing, outbound, on a raid to Turin. W4118 Lancaster Mk.I Known Op's: 33 Production: Part of the third production batch of 455 aircraft ordered from A.V.Roe & Co. Ltd., as part of Contract No. B69274/40 (as extended) under Works No. 7671. 207 aircraft delivered with Merlin XX or XXII engines W4102-W4140, W4154-W4201, W4230-W4279, W4301-W4340 and W4355-W4394; 248 aircraft cancelled W4385-W4400, W4414-W4463, W4481-W4524, W4537-W4586, W4600-W4641 and W4655-W4700. Deliveries commenced 7-42, completed 11-42; average rate of production 13 aircraft per week. Service: 106 Sqn del'd 6-8-42 ZN-Y Failed to Return 4,5-02-1943 attacking Turin, crashing at Valsonne, France crew: Sgt. D.L. Thompson, RCAF pow; Sgt. N.B. Johnstone +; Sgt. F.L. Darlington, RCAF +; P/O G.R. Powell +; Sgt. P. Ward pow; Sgt. W.E. Baker +; Sgt. R.P. Sutton pow; Sgt. J. Picken pow Notes: Take off 1810 Syerston. Part of a force of 188 aircraft - 77 Lancasters, 55 Halifaxes, 50 Stirlings, 6 Wellingtons, tasked to attack Turin. 156 returning crews reported attacking the target and local reports confirm serious and widespread damage was suffered. 3 aircraft, 1.60 percent of the force were lost - 3 Lancasters. During the out bound flight both port engines failed and the pilot was forced to crash-land the aircraft on a hillside at Valsonne (Rhone), approximately 30 km's NW of Lyon, France. Those of the crew that died were initially buried in the New Communal Cemetery (la Guillotiere), Lyon; but have since been relocated to the French National Cemetery (la Doua), Lyon. At the time of its loss the aircraft had accumulated a total of 340 hours on its airframe. Judging from the production batch info,she was a standard B.I,but fitted with a B.III nose blister,so the information I've given you earlier in this post holds up pretty well. I reckon she'd have the fuselage windows unpainted,so it's just a matter of checking whether she'd got the oval or oblong window behind the nose blister. Just to show you how difficult it can be to trace the details of a particular airframe though,there's a picture of 'Prune II with Gibbo and his 106 Sqn boys just before he went off to form 617 in Lancaster at War II. Although she's captioned as a B.III(ED593),she has the pitot in the forward position,obs blister behind the pilot's window and narrow props just like 'Prune I has and they're usually classic give-aways to a B.I,so it goes to show,if you want to do a particular airframe then find as many reference photographs as you can. Work from the colour picture you have and the info I've given you and you shouldn't be far wrong. Mark Edited October 3, 2008 by Miggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lanc Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 i bet you didn't type that lot did you mark ! ? ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 i bet you didn't type that lot did you mark ! ? ian. Smartass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jase Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Hi All, I'm still going with this one. It's been a slow build due to work commitments etc. Anyway, I have another question... There are two different options for the part that sits adjacent to the rear turret. One continues the lines of the fuselage, the other flares out. What is the purpose of this and which is most likely to have been used on this aircraft? Thanks Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Anyway, I have another question... There are two different options for the part that sits adjacent to the rear turret. One continues the lines of the fuselage, the other flares out. What is the purpose of this and which is most likely to have been used on this aircraft? I've had the same problem with my S-Sugar project and I believe that the fuselage was flared out on later aircraft that had the Rose Rice turret fitted, so 'Admiral Prune,' being an earlier aircraft, wouldn't have had the flared fuselage I not 100% sure though Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Hi I believe the difference is that the flared option was introduced as a deflector, they were fitted well before the Rose Rice turret was introduced, Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jase Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Oh dear, two different opinions already. BTW what is a Rose Rice turret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Oh dear, two different opinions already. BTW what is a Rose Rice turret? They were an improved turret fitted to Lancasters with twin .5 machine guns instead of the four .303 guns fitted to the 'normal' FN.20 rear turret Danny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hi There are some piccies in Lancaster at war. On Page 21 here is a piccie of a 44 Sqdn Lanc and it doesn't have the flared deflector, this is in 1942. In Lancaster at war 3 on page 93 there is a picture of a 467 Sqdn Lanc with the 4 gun .303 turret and the deflector so they were fitted before the Rose Rice turned up. I.m pretty sure that by late 42/early 43 they were being fitted as standard but haven't yet found the date it all started, hope this is of use, Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jase Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 HiThere are some piccies in Lancaster at war. On Page 21 here is a piccie of a 44 Sqdn Lanc and it doesn't have the flared deflector, this is in 1942. In Lancaster at war 3 on page 93 there is a picture of a 467 Sqdn Lanc with the 4 gun .303 turret and the deflector so they were fitted before the Rose Rice turned up. I.m pretty sure that by late 42/early 43 they were being fitted as standard but haven't yet found the date it all started, hope this is of use, Regards Paul That's great Paul, thanks. With what you have said about them being fitted in late 42/early 43 and in the absence of photographic proof then if it wasn't factory fitted I'm going to imagine that the deflector was fitted at the same time as the larger nose blister! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hi Jazzy You realise that the minute you've finished it someone will appear with a photo that contradicts whatever you do. I feel it's a safe bet that it is fitted on your choice, somewhere in the depths of my memory is a feeling that only the early Lancs, possibly the converted Manchesters, were without the deflector happy modelling, Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avro683 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Does anyone have any information on this aircraft? I've started building my Revell Lancaster and I'm intending to build this particular aircraft using the Aeromaster Decals.I don't have any books on the subject, so I've done some internet research and found a few pictures and a brief history. As far as I can tell, the aircraft is a B Mk1. According to Revell's instructions, the Mk1 had the shorter nose blister, but from the pictures I have found it certainly looks like the longer blister. None of the pictures show enough of the side of the aircraft, so I cannot tell if the side windows were painted over. The drawing on the decals suggests they were not. Any info would be gratefully accepted. Thanks. The Lancaster with the larger blister is Admiral Prune II, ED593 and is a BIII. The first prune, W4118 is definitely a B1 with the shorter blister. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi Jazzy In the Lancaster data file it says the deflector was fitted to cure buffeting when the rear turret was traversed Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jase Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks for the research Paul. I think I shall go with the deflector. It'll be glued on tonight, so too late to change it tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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