Jump to content

RAF Lightnings over Africa (profiles)


Gekko_1

Recommended Posts

  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys,

sorry for the lack of updates. Life is just too busy at the moment.

Question: Can the Lightning F.6 get rid of its over-wing drop tanks in flight?

Cheers

Richard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

sorry for the lack of updates. Life is just too busy at the moment.

Question: Can the Lightning F.6 get rid of its over-wing drop tanks in flight?

Cheers

Richard.

I believe so, yes. At least that's what a couple of books I have says :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

hi

forgot i was a member here............just had to retrieve my password just so i could post in here.....great story line......would love to get an update

i love 'what ifs' (im about to do a what if the labour government had canceled the Lightning as well as the TSR2.........a F104 in 111 squadron colours) so ive had really enjoyed reading all of this

so if the US had become very insular what would have become of Isreal?.....would it have been over run in the next unpleastness with its Arab neighbours or would it have gone from strength to strength?....i can see it taking on a lot of those frustrated American techs....could see it making stronger ties with France and GB (im thinking Harriers, Buccs and Lightnings with a Star of David B) )until it could produce its own aircraft...would it become a major player on the worlds arms market, filling the vacum caused by America pulling out?.....would it 'reverse engineer' the American aircraft it already had in its inventory in this time line?.....useful source of F4 and A4 aircraft and spares

as for AEW.................since the Sentry would never happen would the Nimrod AEW programme be accelerated?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi

forgot i was a member here............just had to retrieve my password just so i could post in here.....great story line......would love to get an update

i love 'what ifs' (im about to do a what if the labour government had canceled the Lightning as well as the TSR2.........a F104 in 111 squadron colours) so ive had really enjoyed reading all of this

so if the US had become very insular what would have become of Isreal?.....would it have been over run in the next unpleastness with its Arab neighbours or would it have gone from strength to strength?....i can see it taking on a lot of those frustrated American techs....could see it making stronger ties with France and GB (im thinking Harriers, Buccs and Lightnings with a Star of David B) )until it could produce its own aircraft...would it become a major player on the worlds arms market, filling the vacum caused by America pulling out?.....would it 'reverse engineer' the American aircraft it already had in its inventory in this time line?.....useful source of F4 and A4 aircraft and spares

as for AEW.................since the Sentry would never happen would the Nimrod AEW programme be accelerated?

Hi Bowulf,

I will get back to this story as soon as I can. I haven't forgotten about it. Its a story that now has a very definite beginning, middle and end. Although it started as a bit of an accident it has now broadened out into a fully fledged story. I may even turn it into a proper novel one day. For now though work and family commitments mean my spare time is severely restricted.

I did do an F-104 111Sqn profile a long time ago, here it is.....

RAF111Sqn.jpg

As for Israel? Well, its not part of this story, but I suppose with the US taking a backseat it may mean that the State of Israel may need to become a little smarter in how it deals with its neighbors? Perhaps a little less aggressive and a little more diplomatic? Various European countries may offer military supplies, but they would only be second hand stuff as most of Europe is busy keeping a watchful eye on what the Soviets are up to.

Personally I can't see too many American techs going to Israel to work. Things would be a lot safer for them back in the US and in Europe.

A major player on the worlds arms market? No, if it couldn't persuade its neighbors through diplomacy it would be fighting a strictly defensive battle. It wouldn't have enough capital or friends to be much else.

The Nimrod AEW program may have been accelerated, its a possibility.

Cheers

Richard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 3 months later...

After the big tribal conflict between sub-saharian ( white moors) and uneducated tribes (black moors) in both Mauretania and Morroco, a third party the Polisario Rebels (who want a complete separated country) started to mess with both coutries with the cover assistance of Algeria and Lybia; and the USSR was only happy to sell a lot of equipment on both sides

During UN sumit the young carismatic Arab Leader Muadar Kadaffi insulted the Spanish delegation and accused King Juan Carlos I to be a Slavery heir shouting in an very uncivilized arabic only to receive a Don/البرلمانان الهتاف بنفسك as answer (why don't you shout yourself) then on time dogge a flying shoe..................... a week later Spain answer the call to help to Mauretania and Morroco, deploying F-5A ALA (wing)with RF-5A flight in Morroco and another one of Phantom F-4C in Mauretania (undercover both Nortrop and McDonell started a production line close to Barajas airport plus AIM-9G, AIM-7F, AGM-45 as US assistance )

No one call ever dare to call a spanian King in such a way and wait for a united coutry stand beside his King (largely unnoticed the very same answer will be giben to another dictator but in a very different continent few years later)

In such a move Charles Prince of Wales returned to RAF and started to flight train in order to return to flight status (big secret inside RAF quarters no one dares to say nothing to him, even less after got a couple of kills Tu-16 in North Sea)

After some losses BAE run a crash conversion upgraded suit for the Lightnings another underwing pylon was attached with twin AIM-9J, ALQ-40 chaft and flare as deffensive and another little help from US Combat Three IFF equipment and TISEO units, large double size Red Top and Firestrakes with as medium range BVR solution (using storaged F-3 cells at first but when enough units available started to upgrade existing superplus Saudi F-6 samples)

Royal navy deploy a couple of carriers HMS Hermes and Ilustrious in front of Ivory Cost, Ghana, Benin (and close to Nigeria)

German Luftwaffe send some Kormoran to use them as ARM against the bigest airborne radar around, yes the MiG-25...................... to be use during their taking off by the longest bomber around Australian, Canadian, New Zeland, Rodhesian, South African and of course RAF's TRS2

Edited by RAGATIGER
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

A couple of questions:

Can air to air refuelling be done at very low altitudes? Say, 250 feet?

Was the Bloodhound SAM a viable SAM? In other words did it work?

Is the Bloodhound fully mobile, as in, can it be put in the back of a Herc and moved and re-set-up in another location reasonably easy? What would the set-up time be?

I've got a couple of new bits to add to the story but need some facts before I proceed.

Thanks

Richard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard

AAR at low level is very difficult. The drogue bounces around in turbulence, the lower you are the more turbulence there is. It can be done but getting in is very, very difficult. And your fuel burn rate goes up dramatically. Even at 20000 feet some fast jets have to engage a burner to stay in contact. At that point you are burning fuel as fast as you are taking it on. At low level the fuel burn would be even worse.

Bloodhound was a viable SAM, or at least I hope it was as it was the point defence system for the UK V bomber bases for many years.

Moving the Bloodhound launchers would not be a quick option. Unlike systems such as Rapier it was not designed to be mobile. The launchers were bolted to concrete hard standings with reloads being delivered by a Land Rover (or similar sized vehicle) towed trailer. If you have a look at Google Earth just to the east of Finningley, near Doncaster UK, at around 53 28.19N 000 56.17W you will find an example of a Bloodhound missile site. Another site is at Breighton Airfield in Yorkshire about 53 48.16N 000 54.11W.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard

AAR at low level is very difficult. The drogue bounces around in turbulence, the lower you are the more turbulence there is. It can be done but getting in is very, very difficult. And your fuel burn rate goes up dramatically. Even at 20000 feet some fast jets have to engage a burner to stay in contact. At that point you are burning fuel as fast as you are taking it on. At low level the fuel burn would be even worse.

Bloodhound was a viable SAM, or at least I hope it was as it was the point defence system for the UK V bomber bases for many years.

Moving the Bloodhound launchers would not be a quick option. Unlike systems such as Rapier it was not designed to be mobile. The launchers were bolted to concrete hard standings with reloads being delivered by a Land Rover (or similar sized vehicle) towed trailer. If you have a look at Google Earth just to the east of Finningley, near Doncaster UK, at around 53 28.19N 000 56.17W you will find an example of a Bloodhound missile site. Another site is at Breighton Airfield in Yorkshire about 53 48.16N 000 54.11W.

Bloodhound Mk 1 as used to defend the V-bomber bases and Thor Sites between 1960 and 1964 were very much there for their bark, rather than there bite as the weapon was poo due to the state of the art of GW development when the design was frozen. It was mainly got as a system to get the RAF up to speed in the employment of a surface to air missile system of a more advanced weapon following in the pipeline (Firstly the Blue Envoy 'Super Bloodhound' cancelled in 1957, then the Thunderbird Mk 2 after which Bristols pulled the Bloodhound Mk 2 and (nuclear warhead) Mk 3 out of their hat, Mk 2 entered service, Mk 3 was canned due to lack of stuff to make the warheads.

RAF Bloodhound Mk 1 was not mobile (RAF Misson (the site near Finningley) and RAF Breighton were the homes of 94 and 112 Sqn's with the Bloodhound Mark 1). The launchers needed a hole in the ground under the launcher for the cable and pipe entry assembly.

RAF Bloodhound Mk 2 did work quite well, was designed from the start to be moveable (in the deployable Type 86 equipped missile section format which was one T86 radar, one Launch Control Post, 4 launchers (with outrigger legs and blast mats which didn't need concrete, the one at Hendon is displayed in that configuration) plus ancilliary equipment). The RAF operated 6 missile sections of that type, 3 with 41 Sqn at West Raynham and 3 with 65 Sqn it Seletar on Singapore from 1965 to 1970. Most of the deployable stuff went to Germany in 1970/71 with 25 Sqn, which had 3 missile section deployed in moblie form in case it had to be packed up and moved in a hurry and most of it could be moved by Herc (or Belfast if required).

(Swedish AF Bloodhound Mk 2 Missile sections were all deployable as well).

RAF Bloodhound Mk 2 was based in Africa for a short while as 41 Sqn deployed a 4 launcher missile section (with 8 missiles) to El Adem in Libya in May 1967, the only pre preparation of the site was a layer of clay over the sand put down by the Royal Engineers, so they could pin the launchers out rigger legs down, however it took 34 aircraft movements to get the equipment and personnel from West Ranyham to El Edam (mostly in Beverley’s, from what I've been told) over a period of about a week.

The deployable sections in West Germany in the 1970's was Brown and Green Sections of 'C' Flight 25 Sqn at RAF Laarbruch until they were moved to RAF Wattisham in November 1981 as part of 25 Sqn's year and a bit move from West Germany back to the UK and one of the Sections of 'B' Flight based at Wildenrath.

Photo of a 'C' Flight 25 Squadron RAF Bloodhound Mk 2 on it's Launcher at Laarbruch (with outriggers and Blast mat) Here

General operation of a Bloodhound Mk 2 Missile Section

Missile specs.

Worked from 75 feet to 70,000 ft.

Powered range 100 miles (could go 130 miles if the target was large, high up and not manoeuvring too much).

Speed of missile was Mach 2.7

Used Semi Active Radar Homing using the Frequency Modulated Continuous Wave (Missile homed on the Doppler shift of the reflected radar signal). The Ground based radar known as a Target Illumining Radar, sent out a continuous radar signal which was frequency modulated with a very low frequency sine wave). The sine wave FM had two functions, firstly it allowed the radar to work out the range of the target by comparison of the phase of the signal received compared to that going out of the transmitter (the radar had separate transmitter and receiver aerials on a common mount), The second function the FM was to allow the missile to compare the signal from its radar (the missile had an aerial in the back) with the signal it received on the dish it had at the front. If the FM modulation matched the missile knew it was tracking the right target and not the target of another bloodhound missile section (each missile section used a different frequency modulation on its radar).

Missile was steered by moving wings which used the twist and steer method of control. (Missile rolled so that top of the missile was in line with the direction on the target then pitched up to get the missile pointing at the right point of space. The missile didn't home directly at the target, but by using a system called proportional Navigation aimed at an angle in front of the target.

Missile operation

Missile was launched by four Gosling solid rocket boost motors, which burnt for 4 seconds, at burnout (at Mach 2.2) the two Thor Ramjet engines took over, and the drag of the boost motors caused a couple of shear pins on the boost yoke at the rear of the missile to let go. At this point the boost motors and the yoke slid back, the front mounts disengaged from slots on fairings on the missile wing bay, and lift vanes on the front boost attachments lifted the front of the boosts away from the missile. The missile then searched for and locked its radar homing system in the radome at the front on to the target based on a doppler frequency primed into the missile's guidance system before launch (the missile couldn't track the target during the boost phase, as it accelerated too fast for its guidance system to stay locked on). After it locked on to the radar return reflected off the target from the missile section's ground based radar, the missile unlocked its wings and steered towards the target in bearing. If the engagement was a long range one, the missile didn't climb on a direct path to the target, but flew a Climb Cruise trajectory, in which, the missile was programmed to climb at a set angle to very high altitude and level out. It flew at high altitude (less drag and better fuel consumption) until a command from the ground put the missile into terminal Homing mode, at which point the missile would climb or dive on to the target. The missile warhead was 360lb Con Rod type with a 77 lbs High explosive shaped charge which blew 360 steel bars around the charge out at around 5000 feet per second. The rods were welded together in such a way that they expanded out in a hoop of steel to a diameter of 180 feet before the welds broke. This hoop of steel would cut the target in half. The warhead was exploded by a pulse radar proximity fuze as the missile got level with the target.

The Missile Battery was known as a Missile Section in RAF terminology, The missile were controlled from a cabin called a Launch Control Post, by an officer called the Engagement Controller (who searched for targets, locked the radar on to them, and pressed the fire button, assisted by a digital Argus 200 Computer), while sitting next to him was a Technical SNCO (Chief Tech) who controlled the operations of the radar, the launch Control post and the running up of the missiles (He was known as a Technical Supervisor). Most of the rest of the personnel on the missile section were technicians, who when not fixing kit were loading missiles or guarding the missile site.

The missile section’s Radar could search for its own targets without outside help, but the system was not fitted with any form of IFF, hence friendly aircraft had to fly at correct heights and speeds within designated safe lanes if operating within the airspace defended by the system in this Autonomous mode. Normally the Missile section would be given targets by some form of ground based surveillance radar (as would the fighters!!!). The mobile AD radars used by the RAF back then were the Marconni S259.

Missiles were loaded on to the launcher by use of a sideloading forklift truck with a special beam fitted to it. Took around 15 minutes to reload a launcher.

Edited by bigVern1966
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Roland and big Vern,

very informative. Unfortunately this information kills off any idea I had of using Bloodhound in my story, and low level refuelling seems like a waste of time, and fuel too. Back to the drawing board!

Regards

Richard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Its been a while between updates to this story! Anyway here's the next installment to go along with the Lightning I'm building for the What if Group Build. Hope you like it?

BurkinaFasolowvisstory2.jpg

Amber and the Pumpkin.

Flight Lieutenant Evan Thomson hated being in Burkina Faso and didn’t particularly like flying for their Air Force. However the harsh reality of his situation was that if he was ever to be able to pay for a house for he and his fiancée Amber, then this opportunity was one he could hardly pass on. The ‘deal’ that the British Government, British Petroleum (B.P.) and the Burkina Faso Government had made meant that a twelve month deployment to Burkina flying the F.6 Lightning for the BFAF would see him come home with enough money for not only a down payment but a sizable amount of the house paid for too.

Flying he liked, who didn’t. The Lightning was exciting to fly. Demanding, but also very enjoyable, plus the new developments going on in Burkina meant that things were constantly evolving as the Air War progressed. It was the heat that he couldn’t handle. The constant, unrelenting, heat. When he climbed out of his Lightning on any given day, or night for that matter, his flight suit was always drenched in sweat. Shower facilities at FOB Djibo were basic to say the least, but, at least they had shower facilities!

Evan grew up in Redcastle near Inverness in Scotland and was much more at home in colder climates. Everything about Africa was alien to him. There was one thing about Africa that he did like though and that was the view when flying over it. Today’s flight would see him take BF8742 for a test flight with a newly fitted engine. Being in a war zone however meant that he would have to go armed, so had the standard fit of 2 Redtop air to air missiles and 30mm cannons, plus 2 overwing fuel tanks, just in case. His navigational destination for the flight was Mount Hombori, part of Mali’s Mopti Region and a very scenic part of Central Africa. The flight would be a 160 mile round trip and ‘should’ be pretty uneventful however the Soviets were known to be trying out new tactics where they would transport MiG-17s by truck to specially prepared makeshift runways and send them up for surprise harassment flights. So, he had to be careful.

Start up and take off were fine and unremarkable. The flight to Mount Hombori uneventful and somewhat peaceful. At times like this his mind always drifted back to Amber. She could appreciate why he was doing what he was, but missed him terribly. Evan could never quite be himself around all the bullshit and bravado that went on in the RAF and BFAF. He didn’t much care for it, preferring to just get on with things in his usual quiet professional manner. With Amber however he could just be himself. That was one of the first things he realised about her. She provided a place of tranquility for him; she was just so easy to get along with. The exact opposite of his flying career. Amber’s eyes were the first thing he noticed about her. She would just lock on to him with her eyes and he couldn’t look away. Evan could, at times, be quite shy around women he didn’t know very well, but with Amber that never happened. He could look into those eyes and instantly find peace. They had met in a supermarket one afternoon three and a half years ago and had been inseparable ever since. It was just one of those moments. Amber dropped a loaf of bread in the checkout queue, Evan picked the loaf up, Amber said ‘thank you’, their eyes locked onto one another and that was it!

“Grover, this is Catweasel, we are picking up unusual radio chatter over Southern Mali, could be a rogue MiG, heads up!” came the message from the Royal Navy Gannet AEW aircraft flying just South of the Burkina Faso boarder. This brought Evan back to reality with a jolt! He immediately headed for the deck. The camouflage scheme applied to his Lightning was extremely effective and on more than one occasion had proved its worth giving the coalition aircraft the one to two second advantage needed to get the upper hand in an aerial war zone.

“Roger Catweasel.”

Nothing was showing up on his radar, but that was nothing unusual either. The Soviet pilots understood well the limitations of their aging aircraft and knew that flying as close to the deck as possible could, in most cases; hide them from long range identification.

Evan could now see the huge mountain range looming up before him. This was his marker, time to head home. Turning sharp to starboard he rounded the mountain and that was when he saw it! A lone MiG-17 camouflaged in an intricate scheme similar to his own jet. He was so close that he could quite clearly see the pilot of the other jet as it streaked past.

This was something Evan was quite unprepared for. He was very low and was going too slow to engage the MiG, he needed speed so he threw the Lightning into reheat and climbed to 300 feet all the while looking back trying to spot the MiG. He’d lost sight of it!

“Catweasel, Grover engaging a lone MiG-17 need assistance!”

“Roger Grover, help is on way.” Said the calm female voice from the Gannet.

2 RAAF Mirage IIIOs and 2 Danish Drakens were supersonic and headed his way, but would they get there in time? Where had that MiG gone! Throwing his Lightning into a 7G port turn Evan headed back towards where he last saw the MiG. To his surprise his radar almost immediately picked up the MiG and his Redtop missile was emitting that telltale sound of a lock-on! Evan pressed the button on the control stick and away the Redtop shot, streaking towards the still unseen MiG. It was then that he saw it, it was in a sharp starboard turn towards him, but it never completed the turn. A bright flash told Evan that he had just killed the MiG. Almost simultaneously there was a second flash, that of an ejection seat, then a parachute. The pilot was out. Evan was happy. To kill the MiG was something worth celebrating; killing the pilot didn’t interest him though.

As Evan shot past the descending Soviet pilot, he could see that he was OK. Evan rocked his wings, banked to the right to watch the crash of the MiG and then headed south, back to base. Thirty seconds later he passed the Mirages and Drakens coming to his aid, they continued north hoping for some glory of their own. Evan knew that things back at the base would have been a hive of activity. It was the first kill of the air war for the Black Cats of Number One Squadron.

Sure enough the whole base was out to watch him land. He couldn’t help but grin. It was a good outcome, he was humble but pleased. Touchdown was textbook. He taxied to his spot, opened the canopy and shut down the engines. Dave, his Crew Chief was up the ladder quick smart.

“Alright Boss?” he asked as he applied a stencil next to the ejection warning triangle and sprayed a red star on ‘his’ jet!

“Yes, fine thanks Dave. That was bloody quick!”

“Yes Boss, I’ve been waiting for weeks to be able to apply one!” said the cheeky Yorkshireman, beaming from ear to ear.

Once Evan had climbed out of the Lightning and got his feet back on the ground it was handshakes all round. Evan didn’t much like attention, but he tolerated this. It was after all a pretty big deal for the Squadron. The Squadron commander was the last to shake Evan’s hand.

“Knowing you Evan I’d expect you’d be wanting to have a wee chat to one Amber Daniels before any pi**-up, am I right!”

“Yes Sir, I most certainly would!”

“Right then lad, let's get that sorted for you” and off the two pilots went. Evan stopped briefly, turned, looked at his Lightning, looked at the smiling pumpkin face and whispered ‘thank you’ then walked on to the hanger, to the phone, that would allow him to once again hear Amber’s voice. Though he’d never tell anyone there, that was more important to him that any air to air kill. Amber, was quite simply, his world.

Cheers

Richard.

Edited by Gekko_1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...