1/32 RAF GR4

[SHAR67]

Hi all

this is the Revell 1/32 ECR Tornado,im converting it to an GR4.This is one of two kits im doing in the GR4 configuration,this one is going to be a normal squadron bird as the other one is an anniversary bird.The pic's are of the Paragon wings flaps and slats set,the fit is quite good not to much chopping about here,the kit itself is very good and apart from some minor details that are missing all in all it makes for a great project.If anyone could help with the aid of some shots of the two pods under the nose then it would be most appreciated as these i have to scratch build and have no refference to,i have asked for some scale drawings of the plane but also come up against a brick wall,i even e-mailed the SAM magazine to which i have had no reply.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Cheers Clive.

[Mike]

Nice one Clive... I shall be watching this progress with interest

[spike7451]

On it as we speak...

[spike7451]

Here you go,from my collection from various sources with thanks.

Merv

[SHAR67]

Thanks Merv

I take it you served with the RAF on Tornados,these pic's will be of great use.Am i write in thinking that the Laser pod was for highlighting targets for the Laser bombs and the other pod is for night vision missions?.

Thanks for your help cheers Clive.

[spike7451]

Thanks Merv

I take it you served with the RAF on Tornados,these pic's will be of great use.Am i write in thinking that the Laser pod was for highlighting targets for the Laser bombs and the other pod is for night vision missions?.

Thanks for your help cheers Clive.

No,The pod on the Gulf jet is a LRMTS (Laser Ranger/Marked Target Seeker) made by Ferranti & is used to co-ordinate the dropping of dumb bombs by various means & the other one is a FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red).

Tornado's use a TIALD pod to designate for the LGB's.

If you are converting a IDS to a RAF jet,you'll need to modify the weapon pylons as the are fairings for the crutching pads not found on other nations jets.

I have a sticky here with plenty of pictures on there.An you are correct,I was a Armourer on Tornado's at RAF Bruggen.

Tornado Reference photographs

[SHAR67]

Cheers Spike

what do you do now if you don't mind me asking,as we have a few armourers at our place fuelling jets at Heathrow.

The main pylons on the wings i noticed the aim-9 rack was simular to the F-14 with a flare dispencer at the rear,could i use the F-14's spare AIM-9 rack on my model?.

Cheers for the help.

[Richard E]

The right hand pod is a laser marked target seeker, I'm not sure quite how it works but it picks up a target that is being marked by laser designator either on the ground or on another aircraft. The left hand pod is the Forward Looking Infra Red night vision pod.

Tornado uses the TIALD or Litening pod on the forward left hand fuselage as a laser designator.

Richard

[SHAR67]

Can i use these for the GR4?.

Cheers Clive.

[spike7451]

Can i use these for the GR4?.

Cheers Clive.

You should be able to although they're not used on all jets.

[spike7451]

The right hand pod is a laser marked target seeker, I'm not sure quite how it works but it picks up a target that is being marked by laser designator either on the ground or on another aircraft. The left hand pod is the Forward Looking Infra Red night vision pod.

Tornado uses the TIALD or Litening pod on the forward left hand fuselage as a laser designator.

Richard

Surely that would defeat the purpose of the TIALD pod? I think it's more to do with marking the target on the bomb run for dumb bombs although you would'nt use it when toss bombing

[1POB]

The MTS (Marked Target Seeker) part of the LRMTS (equivalent to the Pave Penny on A-10s) allows the detection and display on the HUD of targets marked by other designators. So the idea is that before aircraft carried their own designation capability (Pave Spike/TIALD in the Tornado's case) the target would be designated by a third party, presumably a ground based unit as Richard mentioned and this target could then be located by the aircraft and attacked with either LGBs or other ordnance. The MTS therefore does not defeat the purpose of TIALD as it is a passive system and does not allow target designation.

The Laser Ranger does exactly what it says on the tin, fires a laser at the target and reports back the range. Therefore the LR is "active" in that it emmits laser energy, but this still does not allow the designation of a target, although in theory it could work .This was attempted by Harrier Gr.3s in the Falklands; the general idea is that one aircraft uses its LR to illuminate the target whilst another aircraft drops the LGB. In the end, neither of the two (I think) attempts to do this worked and IIRC this was down to a difference in frequency between the laser pulses emitted from the LR and those expected by the LGB for guidance.

AS for the LRMTS being used for dumb bomb dropping, certainly the LR component would be useful for this. It is interesting that we (The British) went all out for LRMTS and added it to all of our strike aircraft, whereas it is not seen on many other nations aircraft.

Cheers,

Ed

[Graham]

Ed TIALD (Thermal Imager and Laser Deignator) can designate targets and the good old LRMTS is still in service with the Saudis and Oman, I work on the things as a Laser Engineer and the TIALD's cause us a wee bit of grief more than the 30+ year old LRMTS. I have been told that in the desert the crews use the LRMTS when low flying at night, they fire the laser and if they get a return it's pull your nose up time. It was used in union with the LTM (Laser Target Marker) which was ground based and illuminated the target.

Cheers

Graham.

[1POB]

Ed TIALD (Thermal Imager and Laser Deignator) can designate targets and the good old LRMTS is still in service with the Saudis and Oman, I work on the things as a Laser Engineer and the TIALD's cause us a wee bit of grief more than the 30+ year old LRMTS. I have been told that in the desert the crews use the LRMTS when low flying at night, they fire the laser and if they get a return it's pull your nose up time. It was used in union with the LTM (Laser Target Marker) which was ground based and illuminated the target.

Cheers

Graham.

Sorry Graham, I realise this but looking at my post, my phrasing was confusing:

The MTS therefore does not defeat the purpose of TIALD as [The Marked Target Seeker ] it is a passive system and does not allow target designation.

Cheers,

Ed

[Graham]

No worries mate Now I have read it again I see what you mean.

Graham

[Nev]

Those paragon wings really look the D's B's, if I ever do another big Tonka I reckon I'll get me some....

[Skii]

They are very nice indeed - the *only* issue I have with the Paragon flaps is that they are flat, whereas the real flaps have a convex curve to them

That said it isn't hugely noticeable.

[spike7451]

Point of interest about Skii's pic is the funny shaped red 'square' by the stab is a cover for the APU exhaust.The RAF dont use them.I cut that out & back it with plastic card,paint gunmetal & drybrush black.

[Flipflopman]

I can tell you quite definitely that they DO use them Spike.

Just another of the millions of blanks the Tonka needs fitting, before it's time to go home!!

Flipflopman (Ex GR1/GR4 and F3)

[spike7451]

Well maybe they do in hindsight but I dont recall them.Mind you,being a plumber,did'nt have much to do with riggers & sooties.

[SHAR67]

Hi all

going to get the decals for the first GR4 bird this morning can't wait,still i will reveal all when i get them as to what Sqn she will be representing.Also the one that is pictured i now have made my mind up as to what Sqn she will represent and this i can tell you i think will look superb.There are not to many colourful GR4's about so i have chosen carefully and i think i have made the right choice for my collection.Im hoping to get the lights all working properly on the second jet and that includes the strobes and the flickering anti collision lights on the side's of the jet intakes,if all goes well then it will look superb.

I will update soon but until then thanks for all the help so far.

Cheers Clive.

[SHAR67]

Hi all

I went to see my decals for the first time the other day for one of these Tornado's,well the colour is not quite right on the decals so the guy who is working on them is now doing some fine tweeking to them.The Tornado i have pictured in my build up is the second of two this one is going to be in the colours of this Anniversary bird:

13 Squadron.

This next picture is of the other Tornado im modelling,this is the one to which the decals are being made for:

31 Squadron.

Im hoping i can pull this off as there is an item undeneath the 13 Sqn jet in the centre just behind the front nose wheel (pictured below) that dose not come with the German ECR kit.So im going to have to scratch build this piece.

1.What is this?.

2. Laser pod im going to have to scratch build.

3.FLIR pod? i think this is what this is,this also is not in the kit.

4.This is the item im reffering to above,no idea what this is at a guess is it an horizon to horizon camera?.

5.Q:why is this aircraft carrying two of these pods?.Only one supplied per kit.

6.These i think im going to have difficulty getting round so i might stick witht he smaller ones supplied with the kit.

7.These are the two aerials im also going to have to scratch build as these to are not supplied in the kit.

Cheers Clive.

[WolvoWill]

1 - No idea, haven't seen it flapping around like that before! Potentially where a ground power cable attaches or something, and the doors popped open? Serious FOD problem were it to come off I'd imagine....

2 - The LRMTS system as discussed earlier.

3 - The FLIR systems fairing.

4 - Horizon to horizon IRLS (Infra red linescan). The RAFs 'A' variant Tornados all had this, it was the reconnaisance system that differentiated them from the basic GR1/4 (wih no A). The brown squares either side of the nose towards the intakes are the two sideways looking windows for the system. Operational use of the IRLS system has been discontinued in favour of the RAPTOR pod and DJRP (Digital Joint Recce Pod) as IRLS is only able to capture decent imagery from low level, and is relatively useless from the typical operating altitudes used these days, but is still fitted to the airframes that originally had it.

5 - BOZ-107 chaff/flare pod. On actual ops, the Tornado GR4/GR4A will carry one under its right wing, and a Skyshadow ECM pod under the left, but since the Skyshadow ECM pod is getting on a bit age wise its servicability isn't great, so they aren't often used during training. The Tornado must carry a balanced(ish) load on its outboard pylons though, so you can't just leave the left hand pylon empty, so another BOZ pod is loaded up (either a real, working one, or a concrete filled ballast 'drill' one used when the armourers are first practising).

6 - Antennas for the ILS (Instrument Landing System), which the German Tornado's aren't fitted with.

Hope this helps!

Love the Goldstars scheme by the way, not so much of a fan of the 13 squadron one but I can't deny its eye catching!

Edited June 8, 2007 by WolvoWill

[jenshb]

I think no 1 is a doppler aerial. The Sea Harrier FRS.1 has a similar panel on the belly ahead of the nose gear.

As for the BOZ pods (Q.5) - you can get spares from Revell. Not sure if they would charge or send you parts for free, but if you get in touch with them, they do supply parts for conversions. Unless you just buy another kit and use that to convert it to an F.3:)

Jens

[spike7451]

Number one is a cooling vent or intake if my memory's correct.,The is another one just behind the Navigators right shoulder next to the intake trunk,they pop open when ground power is applied.

Apart from tht,VolvoWills correct on everything else.