neilfgr2 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Guys, Just about to start spraying the 32nd scale Hawker Hunter and was wondering what you guys use to get a hard edge on the camo??? Ive heard of the blue tack method but if Im right it can leave oil marks on the paint... also how you stop a paint build up between two colours??? dont want that nasty paint ridge when you take the tamiya tape off.. Cheers, Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model_madness Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Well i'm no expert but i used blu-tac on my SEA F-104 and it came out well good. No marks or paint peeling. I'm using acrylics btw. If you spray the paint on lightly in a few layers you should have no problem. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 MM's hit the nail on the head... just be gentle & avoid spraying towards the edge of the blutak, and it should go down just fine. That's one of the advantages of blutak masking. It allows you to get a nice soft hard edged camo, if you see what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I use the low-tack A4 sheets, for scrapbooks. It just needs the pattern drawn on the backing, then cut it out, peel off, and stick down. That's for large models; for 1/48th., I use the same technique on the widest Tamiya tape that I can find. Sometimes, though, even the low-tack type will grab hold of glossy paints, so my alternative is to cut the tape into very narrow strips, which means that it can be bent round fairly tight curves, then fill in the rest with newspaper, held down by wider tape. On the production line, Hunters had a completely sharp demarcation line, with under, (or over) spray being polished out with car polish. Mai8ntenance depots may not have been so fussy. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilfgr2 Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Ah, Edgar.. glad you saw my post. I plan on doing a Hunter from 12 Sqn when they used them for a time while the Buccaneers were grounded in 84. So my question is, would they have had soft edge camo like the Buccs? also did they have the cannon ports blanked over??? Warpaint book shows they did and the Xtradecal sheet show's they didnt. No Sabrina's on either pic. Cheers, Neil PS thanks guys for your help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Oh Gawd, this is where "creative thinking" comes in. No Sabrinas = no guns, and, if the whole thing is missing, it wasn't a temporary arrangement. The front 6", or so, of the Sabrina, was fixed to the fuselage, while the rear section attached to the gun pack. Logic (that again) dictates that, if there was no intention to use the guns, drag, in the shape of the gun troughs, would have been lessened, if possible. As for the camouflage, the upper surfaces pattern remained the same, so that, at least, should have been hard-edged, especially if Hawker did the work, and, since the undersides were a mirror image, I would have thought masks would have been used, too. I can't be more positive, than that, sorry. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Hi Neil, Whilst I'm no Hunter expert, I am lucky enough to own the Richard L Ward book, 'Hunter Squadrons of the Royal Air Force and Fleet Air Arm' and the Warpaint. There is a (smallish) picture in the Hunter Squadrons book (p. 46 for 12 Sqn) of F.6 XF383 from the timeframe you mention and in the wraparound camouflage. It certainly appears to be hard-edged, and, as Edgar suggests above, does not have gun troughs. I've pored over the photo this afternoon to make sure I'm not spinning furphies, and am pleasantly reminded why I bought the Xtradecal sheet - for that scheme. I never realised that the instructions contradicted the photo, or the Warpaint profile. Hope this is of assistance and thanks for getting me back with my reference, Regards, Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hi Neil, I've been doing some experimenting with Vegemite and it works very well and doesn't leave a step at all, its easy to apply, just brush it on, once you've finished airbrushing just wash the Vegemite off with warm soapy water. I'm not sure how available Vegemite is in the UK? But anyway here's what a jar looks like. Here the Vegemite has been applied by brush. Allow to air dry, and your ready to airbrush (Acrylics only!) Here I've tried to show the fact that there is absolutely no step, not even a faint one. Vegemite is the only medium I've ever used that can do this. It doesn't seem to matter how thick you apply it as long as you've got a nice smooth flow to the camouflage scheme the better the edge you will end up with. I've also practiced with paint chipping effects as can be seen here. Vegemite applied, ready to airbrush. Green Acrylic paint applied. Here's how it looked when all the Vegemite was washed off. Cheers Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenshb Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 At last...a use for Marmite! Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stéphane Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hello, Pardon me being a poor ignorant froggy, lost on the outer rings of civilization, but what on earth is Vegemite (very rock n'rolly name, that is) ? What's the primary use, where to find, and so on .... Thanks for any inputs ... Cheers Stef (#6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeew Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Neil, Whilst the blu-tac/white-tac method works well, if you want a really neat, hard edged camo, have you ever heard of the wet paper method? You can use almost any type of paper, the thinner the better. Soak it in water so its all pliable and droopy, then just drape it on the model in the camo pattern. The beauty is , that whilst its wet it can be easily worked into the correct shape. Let it dry off for an hour so it doesn't move around, then spray. Whey the paint is dry to touch, simply peel off the damp paper revealing hard edge camo. This method also works if you edge out the camo pattern in blu-tac and then fillin the areas between with wet paper. cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeew Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hello,Pardon me being a poor ignorant froggy, lost on the outer rings of civilization, but what on earth is Vegemite (very rock n'rolly name, that is) ? What's the primary use, where to find, and so on .... Thanks for any inputs ... Cheers Stef (#6) Stef, Vegemite is an Australian yeast extract spread. Quote fromVegemite.com Vegemite dates back to 1922 when the Fred Walker Company, which became Kraft Walker Foods in 1926 and Kraft Foods Limited in 1950, hired a young chemist to develop a spread from one of the richest known natural sources of the vitamin B group - Brewers Yeast. Following months of laboratory tests, Dr. Cyril P Callister, who became the nation’s leading food technologist of the 1920s and 30s developed a tasty spreadable paste. It came in a two ounce (57g) amber glass jar capped with a Phoenix seal with the label "Pure Vegetable Extract". In an imaginative approach, Walker turned to the Australian public to officially name his spread. He conducted a national trade-name competition offering an attractive 50 pound prize pool for the finalists. How the 50 pounds was distributed or who was the winning contestant has unfortunately been lost in history, but it was Walker's daughter who chose the winning name out of the hundreds of entries. That winning name was Vegemite and in 1923 Vegemite first graced grocers' shelves. It was described as "Delicious on sandwiches and toast, and improves the flavour of soups, stews and gravies". However, it took 14 long years of perseverance from Walker before Vegemite finally gained acceptance and recognition with the Australian people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stéphane Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hello Mike, thanks a lot for that answer ... I had to pick out my dictionnary to get was yeast was and I'm really bluffed. That's really a neat trick, a bit like "uh, honey, please, don't trash the cucumber skin you just peeled off ...." "what the hell are you going to do with it honey bunny ?" "well, er, nutting, er, thats for ... hum ... modelling stuff, ya know" Well, I guess I can't get any Vegemite in that half part of the planet, but indeed that was an interesting bit of intel ... thanks for it ! Cheers Stef (#6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHREAK Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hi Neil,I've been doing some experimenting with Vegemite and it works very well and doesn't leave a step at all, its easy to apply, just brush it on, once you've finished airbrushing just wash the Vegemite off with warm soapy water. I'm not sure how available Vegemite is in the UK? But anyway here's what a jar looks like. Here the Vegemite has been applied by brush. Allow to air dry, and your ready to airbrush (Acrylics only!) Here I've tried to show the fact that there is absolutely no step, not even a faint one. Vegemite is the only medium I've ever used that can do this. It doesn't seem to matter how thick you apply it as long as you've got a nice smooth flow to the camouflage scheme the better the edge you will end up with. I've also practiced with paint chipping effects as can be seen here. Vegemite applied, ready to airbrush. Green Acrylic paint applied. Here's how it looked when all the Vegemite was washed off. Cheers Richard. What I want to know is how the heck did you find that out? Do yo lick it off instead of cleaning it off? Did you try a good quality apricot preserve as well? Obviously Vegimite is only good for modelling so it must mean that Marmite is better stuff.....I knew that anyway. Whatever.......cool! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Well, I guess I can't get any Vegemite in that half part of the planet, but indeed that was an interesting bit of intel ... thanks for it ! Hello Stéphane, you could try contacting the Australian Embassy in Paris, they will be able to advise you if there are any shops in the region that stock Australian Vegemite. Oh, and a little warning, if you do manage to get some you probably wouldn't like to eat it, its an acquired taste I'm afraid. If you didn't grow up eating the stuff as a kid you'd probably dislike the Taste! Americans hate the stuff! Regards Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gekko_1 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 What I want to know is how the heck did you find that out? Do yo lick it off instead of cleaning it off? Did you try a good quality apricot preserve as well? Obviously Vegimite is only good for modelling so it must mean that Marmite is better stuff.....I knew that anyway. Whatever.......cool! Rich Hi Rich, a guy on Hyperscale used it as a medium for paint chipping on a military truck he was doing, it turned out really well so I experimented with the stuff myself. The chipping worked out pretty good so I then tried it as a masking medium for an actual camouflage pattern and was happy with the result! Cheers Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leigh Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 One wonders whether this will lead to debates over Vegemite, Marmite or Bovril as a better masking agent. White Vinegar vs. Malt as CA accellerator Brown sauce vs. Ketchup for decal setting solution...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Aotearoa Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Hi Neil,I've been doing some experimenting with Vegemite and it works very well and doesn't leave a step at all, its easy to apply, just brush it on, once you've finished airbrushing just wash the Vegemite off with warm soapy water. I'm not sure how available Vegemite is in the UK? But anyway here's what a jar looks like. Here the Vegemite has been applied by brush. Allow to air dry, and your ready to airbrush (Acrylics only!) Here I've tried to show the fact that there is absolutely no step, not even a faint one. Vegemite is the only medium I've ever used that can do this. It doesn't seem to matter how thick you apply it as long as you've got a nice smooth flow to the camouflage scheme the better the edge you will end up with. I've also practiced with paint chipping effects as can be seen here. Vegemite applied, ready to airbrush. Green Acrylic paint applied. Here's how it looked when all the Vegemite was washed off. Cheers Richard. This is a wind-up, right???! Personally I'd use Marmite, but only coz I prefer the taste! This has to be the most inventive use of Vegemite I've ever seen... Cheers from NZ Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 This is a wind-up, right???! Mad, innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenshb Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 One wonders whether this will lead to debates over Vegemite, Marmite or Bovril as a better masking agent.White Vinegar vs. Malt as CA accellerator Brown sauce vs. Ketchup for decal setting solution...................... I think vinegar actually would work as a decal setting solution. If you smell the bottle, then it has a vinegary smell to it (I always get confused between Set and Sol). Save the ketchup for blood in dioramas:) Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model_madness Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Never ceases to amaze me the uses modellers find for ordinary household goods, foods and tools! Inventive bunch or just crazy sweethearts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 I think vinegar actually would work as a decal setting solution. If you smell the bottle, then it has a vinegary smell to itI think it's acetic acid... same stuff they throw on your chips at the chippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skii Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 I think vinegar actually would work as a decal setting solution. If you smell the bottle, then it has a vinegary smell to it (I always get confused between Set and Sol). Jens Go on - you first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Getting in quick, before the madness descends, most decals are painted onto a base of cellulose. Acetic acid is a solvent, for cellulose, hence its inclusion in so many setting solutions. Unfortunately, some decal manufacturers are, apparently, now using a different base, and the decals are immune to acetic acid. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Getting in quick, before the madness descends, most decals are painted onto a base of cellulose. Acetic acid is a solvent, for cellulose, hence its inclusion in so many setting solutions. Unfortunately, some decal manufacturers are, apparently, now using a different base, and the decals are immune to acetic acid.Edgar What base are they switching to Edgar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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