A trip down memory lane. Not!

[upnorth]

So yesterday I was in my LHS and saw a few Airfix kits I had built as a kid had been reissued, including their 1/72 Gloster Gladiator, which I had quite fond memories of.

So I peered in the box and it was utter shock for me. Short shots here there and everywhere, totally frosted and opaque clear part and a decal sheet that reminded me of old socialist Russian decals: printed on flimsy newsprint type paper and possibbly with continuous carrier film (but I couldn't tell for certain)

I remember it being so much nicer a kit when I built it as a kid back in the early-mid 80s

The shop assistant noted, with some surprise, that the box said "Made in India" on the side. I was rather surprised too as I though Airfix was farming it all out to China and Korea these days. He had a couple of other "Made in India" marked Airfix kits, so we looked in them too and it was pretty much the same sad story as the Gladiator.

I guess outsourcing to India wasn't the best idea.

[Richard M]

Really, bit of a shame that, the polar opposite of how I found my kits, see link.

Best

Rich

[whitestar]

Their not doing themselves any favours I just built a 1/72 Panther Tank and the tracks were a joke, Still what do you expect for a fiver I enjoyed the Wheeled thingy and had fun weathering and learning I may even consider moving to the darkside.

enough Ill get me and

[gengriz]

Hmmm, I have fallen for this one too, having picked one up whilst in Portsmouth yesterday. Clearly some considerable effort has gone into cleaning up the moulds, as mine were crisp and largely flash free (except the 2 blade prop).

However, the standard of this kit is really not acceptable for the 21st century. I have seen old Merlin and Pegasus short run kits that were far far better shaped "out the bag". And really deep trenches along the cockpit too? It looks far more like a cheap "goody bag" toy than a model kit.

I bought it mainly for the decals (I have a Matchbox version ready to build and thought they might be useful), however mine were also on the"brown newsprint". They look quite good at first glance, but are very sightly out of register. This wouldn't have been a problem but the colour is definitely translucent and you can see the off-centred white on the roundels through the blue. The large red area on the top wing decal also show that the red is not even or consistent.

I guess at £3.99 I haven't exactly been ripped off (I have bought far worse for far more in the past), but I was quite disappointed, even though I had a good inkling of what to expect beforehand. Compare this with the Fulmar, which was only £1 more and is a very nice kit (but I have 2 already)

personally, I don't think it will be worth the effort building

[upnorth]

Compare this with the Fulmar, which was only £1 more and is a very nice kit (but I have 2 already)

Well, in fairness, its not really a good comparison as the Fulmar is the Vista kit and those moldings were done with current technology, the Gladiator comes from the early 60s I think.

The crux of my argument is that I know the old Airfix molds were built to last, and should still yield a good pressing of the kit. I think its more an issue of where they outsourced to. Quality control, if there was any, seemed to be asleep at the wheel wherever in India they had the kits made. A better comparison would be to look at the reissues of their old kits that are coming out of China, most of them look quite acceptable compared to the Indian reissued ones I looked at.

[Nico Teunissen]

I saw one yesterday on the workbench of a friend of mine. As far as I am concerned Airfix should be prosecuted (correct spelling? => sorry English is not my native language). It's junk...

Cheers, Nico

[John]

Well, enough Gladiators seem to have been sold to get it to No 1 in the Hannants top 10 and I think we can assume that the majority went to people who knew what they were buying. The same can be said of many contributors to this and other forums who have bought the kit, so why would you want to prosecute Hornby for such an astute business decision?

John

[keefr22]

Well, enough Gladiators seem to have been sold to get it to No 1 in the Hannants top 10 and I think we can assume that the majority went to people who knew what they were buying. The same can be said of many contributors to this and other forums who have bought the kit, so why would you want to prosecute Hornby for such an astute business decision?

John

Well, my guess would be that as they likely were bought sight unseen (I don't suppose they were all bought from visitors to the Lowestoft Aladin's cave!) that the majority of buyers won't know what they've actually bought until the postie delivers it! I agree that they 'probably' knew they were buying a 60's era Airfix kit (although with so much mould leasing & swapping between manufactures these days - witness the Fulmar - who would know for certain?), but possibly not one with apparently the same awful production and quality control problems that went into the Nimrod decals!

Keef

Edited May 25, 2008 by keefr22

[Cornish]

I think maybe the memory lane trip is a little tinted through rosey glasses. I too was in my LHS yesterday and saw the Gladiator.

I bought it on the spot. For £3.99 it is what it is and I don't think Airfix have tried to kid anybody it is anything else, but I suppose to be honest I bought mine mainly through nostalgia (I last built this kit in 1984) and don't think it's that great, but come on, in 1984 I don't think any of us where as critical as we may be today. Lets do our best to support Hornby and the odd kit should'nt refelect on the massive undertaking they have commited to in bringing Airfix back to our shelves and I am sure a lot of people will be happy to see the Gladiator available again.

But that said I agree, it is not a great kit (and probably never has been) and it appears of all the Airfix re-issues I have purchased so far, is the only one made in India and not the UK.

If Airfix can survive through our continued support, you never know, there may be a new tooling of the Gladitor in a few years time ....

Don't write them off in these early days.

[Nico Teunissen]

Even in 1984 a far better Gladiator was for sale (the Heller one). Anyway what strikes me is this: if for example a youngster is buying his first modelkit, and it happens to be this awful Gladiator, he wil probabaly turn back to his Gameboy immediately! It simply is bad marketing for the whole hobby. And come on, Airfix (or Honrby) is making money from a 1956 mold. They had there money returned many many times.

Cheers, Nico

Edited May 25, 2008 by Nico Teunissen

[John]

Even in 1984 a far better Gladiator was for sale (the Heller one). Anyway what strikes me is this: if for example a youngster is buying his first modelkit, and it happens to be this awful Gladiator, he wil probabaly turn back to his Gameboy immediately! It simply is bad marketing for the whole hobby. And come on, Airfix (or Honrby) is making money from a 1956 mold. They had there money returned many many times.

Cheers, Nico

There's a young man in my school modelling club right now building the example from the 90 Years of Fighters boxed set. It's the first kit he's ever built and he loves it, and isn't even bothered that the roundel colours are reversed and he'll have a French air force version. It isn't a good idea to judge the whole market by your individual standards.

A 1956 mould you can make money from is known in business terms as a cash cow. As long as it performs you don't slaughter it and make it into hamburgers.

John

[thx6667]

Even in 1984 a far better Gladiator was for sale (the Heller one). Anyway what strikes me is this: if for example a youngster is buying his first modelkit, and it happens to be this awful Gladiator, he wil probably turn back to his Gameboy immediately!

I think John's experiences are very telling because this line gets said a lot with little if any actual evidence to back it up and is usually more a case of enthusiasts imagining what kids are looking to achieve when they make models but without any actual practical experiences or understandingg of what kids get out of modelling.

John's efforts and stuff like the make-and-take that Hornby have run at recent air-shows suggests that kids are mostly pretty happy to make something fast. Bottom line is that kids are not looking to make a model for the same reasons as an enthusiast and the end result is more likely to fight a dozen imaginary dogfights (and suffer battle damage along the way) than sit on a shelf as monument to hours of dedicated work.

It simply is bad marketing for the whole hobby. And come on, Airfix (or Hornby) is making money from a 1956 mold. They had there money returned many many times.

And..? Paramount is still selling Star Trek videos where they had their money returned many times, ditto George Lucas and Star Wars, The Beatles and their music etc... That's the nature of business Nico! "Bad marketing"? Realising your assets and making a profit to fund new kits sounds like "good marketing" from any angle.

[AnonymousA667]

And come on, Airfix (or Hornby) is making money from a 1956 mold. They had there money returned many many times.

How do you figure that? I wouldn't think Hornby have an awful lot to show for their acquisition as yet! Making money out of such old tooling seems like perfectly good business sense to me, whatever I might think about the product itself.

peebeep

[keefr22]

How do you figure that? I wouldn't think Hornby have an awful lot to show for their acquisition as yet! Making money out of such old tooling seems like perfectly good business sense to me, whatever I might think about the product itself.

peebeep

I accept what you (& Jonathan) are saying, & quite agree that it probably is good business sense. But I don't necessarily think it's good for the consumer - i.e. us! If we keep on buying these ancient old has-beens, is it a double edged sword? Instead of actually investing the proceeds into say tooling a new Gladiator, where's the incentive if the 50+ year old thing is still selling? Might it be like Revell's 'good business sense' in re-issuing the old Frog/Hasegawa Lightning as they had (or were rumoured to have had) knowledge of the new kits about to be announced from other manufacturers and wanted to make one last killing out of us? Do Airfix have similar knowledge, or are they just opening the door for another manufacturer to tool a new Gladiator when they see how well the Airfix one is selling? (yes I know that's just wishful thinking!!)

And just compare the Airfix Gladiator with one of the Hobby Boss 'easy-build' kits which go for the same price. No, there is no comparison, is there....??!!

Keef

[AnonymousA667]

But I don't necessarily think it's good for the consumer - i.e. us!

If by 'us' you mean the relatively small percentage (in terms of overall sales) of hobbyists who inhabit forums like this, then I would say if it were not for guaranteed profits like this then we might not be getting Nimrods, Canberras etc. At the end of the day management has to deliver a balance sheet that keeps accountants and shareholders happy. I would expect to see re-treads from old tooling until said tooling is completely worn out. What surprises me is the number of enthusiasts who are buying the Gladiator on a nostalgia trip and it will be interesting to see what happens when the BP Defiant is on release.

peebeep

[upnorth]

Yes, perhaps my want of a trip "down memory lane" had the proverbial rose tinted glasses on it. In my experiences, most trips down memory lane do have that over optimistic side to them.

I know Airfix's Gladiator wasn't the best scale example of the type that could be had, but I was going for nostalgia when I saw it, not rivet counting.

When I built it as a kid, I remember all the mouldings being cleaner and sharper, I remember a clear part that actually was clear. In short, I remember building a kit that had some evidence of quality control about it.

I'm not slashing into Hornby, all things considered, I'm happy to see they kept Airfix alive. I'm happy to see they are making new tooled kits and bringing some of the old ones back. I just wish that they'd chosen someone other than whoever they did in India to do the selection of reissues I saw in the hobby shop the other day.

You don't plan a trip down memory lane to contend with evolved AMS, you go down it to escape from it. If the kit I saw that day looked more like the pressing of it I built as a kid, sans short shots and including a decently clear canopy, I'd have bought it even with a crappy looking decal sheet and done something hypothetical with it. As it was in the box, I don't think I could have had a nice nostalgic time with it.

I would never criticise a company simply for keeping something that sells on the market, that is indeed good business sense. However, I would criticise them for putting such a thing on the market in such a downgraded condition. It may not be perfect, but if you're going to have it out there, at least have it out there in respectable condition.

[Nico Teunissen]

There's a young man in my school modelling club right now building the example from the 90 Years of Fighters boxed set. It's the first kit he's ever built and he loves it, and isn't even bothered that the roundel colours are reversed and he'll have a French air force version. It isn't a good idea to judge the whole market by your individual standards.

A 1956 mould you can make money from is known in business terms as a cash cow. As long as it performs you don't slaughter it and make it into hamburgers.

John

As it happens to be I run a modeller's club at my work (autistic youngsters). Some time ago one showed up with an Airfix DH 88 Comet Racer. A reissue from some years ago. Same story as with the Gladiator. Totally outdated mold, enormous flash. In all an unbuildable kit for a youngster his age. So luckily I was around and after a lot of effort it was turned into a model. He would never buy an Airfix kit again!

Cheers, Nico

Edited May 26, 2008 by Nico Teunissen

[John]

I accept what you (& Jonathan) are saying, & quite agree that it probably is good business sense. But I don't necessarily think it's good for the consumer - i.e. us! If we keep on buying these ancient old has-beens, is it a double edged sword? Instead of actually investing the proceeds into say tooling a new Gladiator, where's the incentive if the 50+ year old thing is still selling? Might it be like Revell's 'good business sense' in re-issuing the old Frog/Hasegawa Lightning as they had (or were rumoured to have had) knowledge of the new kits about to be announced from other manufacturers and wanted to make one last killing out of us? Do Airfix have similar knowledge, or are they just opening the door for another manufacturer to tool a new Gladiator when they see how well the Airfix one is selling? (yes I know that's just wishful thinking!!)

And just compare the Airfix Gladiator with one of the Hobby Boss 'easy-build' kits which go for the same price. No, there is no comparison, is there....??!!

Keef

You can (or, at least, you could!) by boxed Airfix gift sets from Ebay at a price that lowered the unit cost of each kit to quite a bit less than a HobbyBoss kit. which is a consideration for me in my school activities as I have to justify the money and I need to maximise the bang for my buck. As to there being no comparison - it depends what you want from it.

John

As it happens to be I run a modeller's club at my work (autistic youngsters). Some time ago one showed up with an Airfix DH 88 Comet Racer. A reissue from some years ago. Same story as with the Gladiator. Totally outdated mold, enormous flash. In all an unbuildable kit for a youngster his age. So luckily I was around and after a lot of effort it was turned into a model. He would never buy an Airfix kit again!

Cheers, Nico

I suspect your young friend was more influenced by your expectations than his.

John

[Nico Teunissen]

I suspect your young friend was more influenced by your expectations than his.

John

Only thing to say is simply deny this.

Nico

[Cornish]

Some good points raised. But I guess it comes down to what you value.

To me this is no fantastic new tooling that will take pride on my shelf, but for £3.99 I will get:

10 minutes of nostalgia.

A day of building with my nephew.

Chance for him to learn a little modeling and maybe some history.

Chance for me to practice my flash removal skilss.

A new plane for him to crash around the garden.

Some nice boxart.

Chance to support Airfix. (Come we know they are trying, just look at the new toolings)

All for far less than a McSlappy McHappy meal and you know what, I probably paid near enough £3 for this kit in 1984.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Cornish

[thx6667]

As it happens to be I run a modeller's club at my work (autistic youngsters). Some time ago one showed up with an Airfix DH 88 Comet Racer. A reissue from some years ago. Same story as with the Gladiator. Totally outdated mold, enormous flash. In all an unbuildable kit for a youngster his age. So luckily I was around and after a lot of effort it was turned into a model. He would never buy an Airfix kit again!

Cheers, Nico

But you could say that equally about any number of kits, its a lottery that someone can pick up one kit regardless of the logo and still come up with the same result. You could pick a modern kit you think is nice, like an Italeri helo, a Tamiya tank or Monogram car, and still get the same negative result if the kit doesn't engage someone - so do we equally then berate those companies for selling things that kids can't build?

Its also a lottery with the builder - some kids like spending a couple of hours making a model, for others a couple of hours is still too long. Like most artistic things, its either "there" or not, you could bombard some kid with the finest, easiest to build kits out there but if it doesn't "stick" (sic) then nothing will.

And ultimately, for all the hyperbole, if these old kits really were killing off new generation of modellers en-masse, then they simply would not continue to sell, they would not continue to be reordered by the retailers, they would not be produced - simple as that.

[Nev]

Can Airfix actually do anything wrong? Seriously, they should consider selling their own patented brand of Teflon.

[John]

Can Airfix actually do anything wrong? Seriously, they should consider selling their own patented brand of Teflon.

Not been following the Nimrod decal discussion then?

John

[Nico Teunissen]

Earlier I told I saw one of these on a workbench of a friend of mine. I linked him this topic. He actually finished it today:

This was his reaction:

Nico,

I'n not subscribed to them but FWIW you could tell them from me I just built the f*ing (cencored by me) thing and it's awful. Not a 10 minute excercise in nostalgia, it took me a week, with a very poor result, and I'm not inexperienced. The decals were only relevant for the one (silver) example and the fit was too poor to do that, so I used the Revell ones which disguise it a bit. Feel free to submit any of these photos.

Cheers, Paul.

Cheers, Nico

Edited May 26, 2008 by Nico Teunissen

[thx6667]

Equally Nico, there was Big Reg's build here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...st&p=168098

Is the Gladiator is an old kit? Yes it is, over 50 years old to be exact. Not going to everyone's cup of tea? Absolutely, but then there are alternative kits out there. Is every modeller going to have the same experiences as you cite? Clearly not, but equally they're not going to have the same that I cite, there will be good and bad, so all that proves is that modelling really is a very individual thing.

If this is a case of "we think this kit should not be on sale" then that one will rumble on and on every time an old kit gets reissued, or continues to be sold, because it usually flies in the face of perceptions of why a product sells, who buys it or how a business works.