BoB Spitfire

[dylan the rabbit]

I've just been asked by a mate to build him a Battle of Britain Spitfire.

I'll be building it OOB, but am undecided whether to go for a 1/48th Tamiya or Airfix kit. I have no preference for either, and I guess either a Mk1 or Mk2 will do. As long as my mate gets something that looks like yer classic BoB Spit, he'll be happy.

I'm presuming they both have markings for BoB aircraft? I know the Airfix one has Squadron 19 of Duxford, but I can't find out what other markings it has.

As far as the Tamiya decals are concerned, if I go for that kit, I may buy aftermarket as I really struggled with my last Tamiya kit decals.

I want to build it with the canopy open. In the case of either kit, is this possible?

Any advice chaps?

Cheers,

Nick

[AnonymousA667]

I'll be building it OOB, but am undecided whether to go for a 1/48th Tamiya or Airfix kit. I have no preference for either, and I guess either a Mk1 or Mk2 will do. As long as my mate gets something that looks like yer classic BoB Spit, he'll be happy.

I'm presuming they both have markings for BoB aircraft? I know the Airfix one has Squadron 19 of Duxford, but I can't find out what other markings it has.

I want to build it with the canopy open. In the case of either kit, is this possible?

Despite criticisms in some quarters the Airfix is not a bad build, but you will need to pay attention to some areas like thinning the flying surfaces, scribing control hinge lines for a bit more definition and re-shaping the fin leading edge. The Tamiya is shake 'n bake but not without shape issues. The Airfix does not have BoB period schemes so you would need to source appropriate decals. The Airfix kit has separate canopy pieces, but due to the thickness of the parts you might struggle to show it opened up. When I make a bit more progress with my build I will post some pics.

peebeep

[PHIL B]

Nick,

Between the two, I'd recommend the Tamiya Mk I. It goes together really easily and is only £2 dearer than the Airfix one.

You might also want to consider the new Pegasus Hobbies Mk I. I haven't seen any reviews but their Hurricane has been well received:

Spit linky thing.

Hurricane build

Phil.

[AndyL]

Nick,

Having built both, I agree with what PeeBeep has to say. The Airfix decal options are a pre-war 19 Squadron machine, and one for a post BoB 118 Squadron. I have a few spare decal options for a handful of BoB Spits - if you want some, let me know.

For canopy open, I'd go for the Tamiya - my Airfix was done all buttoned up.

Regards

Andy

[darson]

Nick I've built four of the Tamiya 1/48 Spitfire Mk.Is over the last few years and they are a dream to build and if you are looking for a few aftermarket items for that nice open canopy look, may I suggest the Eduard Zoom Set and Ultracast prop, spinner & exhaust stacks. These aren’t mandatory but they do look really cool.

In my experience Tamiya decals go down beautifully with a little decal setting solution such as Mr Mark Softener.

Btw I have the Airfix kit in the stash but haven't got round to building it yet.

Cheers

[dylan the rabbit]

Tamiya it is then! It was sort of what I was thinking of anyway.

Cheers guys,

Nick

[Test Graham]

Remember when a frozen-food manufacturer was forced under food description legislation to rename their "Roast Beef With Gravy" as "Gravy with Roast Beef"? Think Tamiya "looks like a Spitfire but not very".

It will, however, go together very nicely.

[davidelvy]

If you build the Airfix kit you may need to spread the lower fuselage around the engine cowlings. All airfix spits seem to tuck in slightly here which causes fit problems with the wings and lower cowling.

[AnonymousA667]

If you build the Airfix kit you may need to spread the lower fuselage around the engine cowlings.

I put a 'spreader' in mine just in case, but I wouldn't say it was strictly necessary because the Mk I fuselage has the upper cowling moulded on, unlike the Mk IX fuselage. The upper cowling lends a certain amount of stiffness that is lacking with the Mk IX fuselage and leads to the problem you describe.

peebeep

[Bo Roberts]

Here's my Airfix Spit MkI in work. It's an okay kit but if you're going to build one fast, I'd start with Tamiya's. Fit is fine but the overall details is very heavy handed.

Interior painted.

Correcting the vertical stab.

Together and canopy ready for vacuforming

Swept back prop.

I did NOT use spreader bars and the wing / fuslage fit was just fine. As was the lower cowl.

And oh, BTW, it's UNBUILDABLE!!!! Hope to start painting today or tomorrow.

Bo Roberts

[Edgar]

If you do use the Tamiya kit, ditch the radio, down by the pilot's left ankle; it's a modern multi-channel job (we feel fairly sure that Tamiya looked at AR213, based near here, since it had an identical unit.) The radiator shutter operating bar is missing. Don't know if it's provided, but Mk.I Spitfires did not have a crowbar until after the Battle. The compressed-air cylinders were silver, with copper unions, on top, and green fixings. Cockpit colour, for Mk.Is is Humbrol 90, and the seat, being metal, was also green. Rudder pedals only had one crossbar, plus the leather strap over the top. The harness, which did not come through the hole in the backrest (mainly because there wasn't one!) should be tan.

Edgar

[Bo Roberts]

If you do use the Tamiya kit, ditch the radio, down by the pilot's left ankle; it's a modern multi-channel job (we feel fairly sure that Tamiya looked at AR213, based near here, since it had an identical unit.) The radiator shutter operating bar is missing. Don't know if it's provided, but Mk.I Spitfires did not have a crowbar until after the Battle. The compressed-air cylinders were silver, with copper unions, on top, and green fixings. Cockpit colour, for Mk.Is is Humbrol 90, and the seat, being metal, was also green. Rudder pedals only had one crossbar, plus the leather strap over the top. The harness, which did not come through the hole in the backrest (mainly because there wasn't one!) should be tan.

Edgar

Thanks Edgar. I guessed those cylinder were oxygen so I painted 'em yellow. Why did they have compressed air for???? The belts are Sand that I dirted up with black wash.

Don't look like I'll get around to paint 'til tomorrow.

Bo Roberts

[AnonymousA667]

If you do use the Tamiya kit, ditch the radio, down by the pilot's left ankle; it's a modern multi-channel job (we feel fairly sure that Tamiya looked at AR213, based near here, since it had an identical unit.) The radiator shutter operating bar is missing. Don't know if it's provided, but Mk.I Spitfires did not have a crowbar until after the Battle. The compressed-air cylinders were silver, with copper unions, on top, and green fixings. Cockpit colour, for Mk.Is is Humbrol 90, and the seat, being metal, was also green. Rudder pedals only had one crossbar, plus the leather strap over the top. The harness, which did not come through the hole in the backrest (mainly because there wasn't one!) should be tan.

Edgar

Now 'e tells us. I was toying with the idea of a sky interior but the Mk I pics in the Datafile show up a dark greenish colour. Also it has a resin seat and Sutton harness attachment point in the rear fuselage so I made an assumption that there must be a slot in the head armour. All sealed up now so I can't change it.

Edgar, could you tell us what the wheel well colour would be for a machine with silver doped under surfaces?

peebeep

[darson]

Bo I believe from my references that the two O2 cylinders were used to power the .303 Brownings. The pilots O2 supply is a smaller bottle (black in my references) on the other side of the fuselage.

Peepbeep I'll probably get shot down in flames for this but every reference that I have showing an "unrestored" Spitfire has the wheel well the same color as the underside of the wing.

Cheers

Edited May 1, 2008 by darson

[darson]

Cockpit colour, for Mk.Is is Humbrol 90, and the seat, being metal, was also green. Rudder pedals only had one crossbar, plus the leather strap over the top. The harness, which did not come through the hole in the backrest (mainly because there wasn't one!) should be tan.

Edgar

I just noticed some things in your post Edgar and had a couple of questions.

The armoured plate behind the pilots head that I think you are referring to with regards to the harness is not supplied in the Tamiya kit, can you tell me approx when the two armoured plates behind the pilot (head and back) started to be used operationally? I always scratch build these two armour plates for my BoB Spits thinking they would be operational by then.

When did the Bakelite (sp) seat become operational, I thought it was early 1940? So wouldn't a red/brown seat be accurate for a BoB Spitfire?

[Edgar]

Armour, both head, and back, was introduced from February 6th 1940. The plastic seat was introduced from 14th May, 1940, but the mod says that it was "as alternative design, to assist production and provide alternative manufacture." I take this to mean that it was not a full-blown replacement, at least initially, just an extra string to the bow. It's listed as being for the I & II, so, maybe, Castle Bromwich & Westland got first use, while Supermarine with their sheet metal experience, stayed with the metal seat, at least until they were bombed out? This is pure speculation, since I've found nothing concrete, yet. The slot in the head armour/bulkhead, through which the harness went, remained in use right through the war, and beyond, only being changed with the introduction of the ZB harness, with the fuselage fuel tank, on the 22/24. Incidentally, on the V, from September 1942, extra armour (to protect vulnerable, soft, tissue, presumably) was introduced under the seat, making it bloody heavy, and difficult to remove.

The compressed air cylinders provided air (not O2) for the flaps, gun firing, camera gun (in later a/c.,) and landing light lowering/raising.

My research indicates that, when built, wheel wells were green. This is based on photos, by Peter Cooke, mainly, of unrebuilt a/c, including AR213. This (recently rebuilt) Mk.I has a IA wing, on one side, and a VA, on the other, and, back in the 60s, both wells were green. What happened on MUs, and the Squadrons, during repaints, though, is anyone's guess. It was AR213 which caused me some gnashing of teeth, too, since I've had photos, of the cockpit, for around 20 years, and only recently really looked at them, making me realise that they were a different shade. Not trusting flash photos, I was given access to some panels, which had been removed during the rebuild, and included areas which had not been subject to daylight (or very little.) In daylight, the paint is a dead match for the Humbrol colour chip (not their leaflet, if anyone doubts us.) Marvellous, ain't it, all these years we've been searching for the colour, and it's been available all the time?

Edited May 1, 2008 by Edgar

[Bo Roberts]

Progress report for Airfix MkI.

Wish some of you worked with Airfix on this kit.

Canopy vent marked and ready for vauforming.

Vacuformed. A faint outline of the canopy vent can be seen.

Spin recovery parachute guard.

Bo Roberts

[Edgar]

These are a Mk.I (metal) seat, which has continued in service right up to the present, in fact it's from a rebuilt XVI. It's been modified, to take the post-war QS harness, but is, otherwise, as original. Please note that there's no hole, in the backrest, so it would have been a mite difficult to thread the harness through it!

Edgar

Edited May 6, 2008 by Edgar

[Bo Roberts]

Interesting.

Here is the link for Ultacast early Spit seat and the hole is right where yours has a notch in the padding.

http://www.ultracast.ca/products/48/198/default.htm

Hummmm, wonder why the notch???

Bo Roberts

[darson]

Interesting.

Here is the link for Ultacast early Spit seat and the hole is right where yours has a notch in the padding.

http://www.ultracast.ca/products/48/198/default.htm

Hummmm, wonder why the notch???

Bo Roberts

Good point Bo, on the Ultracast early seat with Sutton harness it looks like a piece of the harness goes through the hole.

[Edgar]

Every other photo, that I have (or have seen,) of Spitfire seats, shows a small(ish) oblong hole, in the backrest, and there's a photo, of a Mk.IX, with the harness coming through the hole, so some have assumed that all Spitfire seats were so configured. I think, though, that this is the "QK" harness (still a Sutton,) which had cable attachments, at the lower end, instead of webbing, which allowed the harness to come that way. But (and it's a big "but") this harness could only be used on a seat which incorporated a strengthening mod, and was only to be used on the Mk.VII, onwards. So far, I haven't found what differences there were, between the normal seat, and those with mod 1117 "To strengthen pilot's seat to enable Q type harness." There is no date, for its inception, either, so it's all rather down to conjecture, I'm afraid. The crew, on AR213, are adamant that the hole, in the backrest, was nothing more than a handhold, since, according to them, it's a three-man job to remove the seat, even now. Add the under-seat armour, and it must have been a real swine. I have a long list of drawings, to search through, in the RAF Museum's library, but, for the moment, I can't get there.

Edgar