Battle of Norway Gladiators

[desmojen]

Hi guys, quick question for you.

I will very shortly be starting a Roden Gladiator for the 90 years of the RAF GB. I want to do a 263 sqn aircraft from the Battle of Norway. I have read an excellent article on geocities about it which includes some info on colour schemes but unfortunately I cannot link to the photos for some reason. I do have one photo in my Gladiator in action book, but it shows what looks like a grey coming half way up the side, not mentioned in the comments.....? It is also one of the machines from the latter part of the operation where I would rather do one of the earlier ones.

The kit contains markings for a 263 aircraft with no serial which is clearly in RN colours. I quote below a snippet from geocities, I'm particularly interested in the idea of the partial overpaint, otherwise I think I'd like to do the standard RAF four colour camo over black and white.

"The Gladiators of 263 Squadron wore various camouflage schemes. Several aircraft on the 1st expedition wore the four-tone Shadow Shading scheme of Dark Green/Dark Earth upper surface of the top wing, tail plane and top of the fuselage. The top of the lower wing, fuselage sides and tail fin/rudder were Light Green/Light Earth. The under surfaces were Black/White. The other aircraft were in the standard two-tone Dark Green/Dark Earth with either Black/White or Sky undersides. During the voyage out from the UK in April 1940 some Gladiators were repainted in naval colours while still on board Glorious. The Dark Earth was replaced by Medium Sea Grey. The undersides and the fuselage were painted in Sky Grey. The top of the lower wing had the Dark Earth replaced with Sky Grey. Click the next button to see side views, pictures of 263 Squadron aircraft."

Does anyone have any photos or info at all?

Also, what should I use for light earth and light green if I go for the four colour scheme?

Thanks,

Jen.

Edited April 9, 2008 by desmojen

[AnonymousA667]

The osprey book 'Gladiator Aces' has a couple of pics and a colour profile. One of the pics shows a machine apparently re-painted en-route with the sky grey fuselage. If you read any accounts of the campaign it appears to have been completely chaotic and photos/references are very scarce.

For light earth Hu 93 and light green Hu 86 appear to be fair matches with my BS colour chips.

Sorry I missed you on Sunday, you didn't get your tea and bun!

peebeep

[desmojen]

I know! I was looking forward to that too

Any chance of some scans of the pics and profile?

Jen.

[AnonymousA667]

I'll sort it later, supposed to be working at the mo! Give me a nudge if it looks like I've forgotten.

peebeep

[daz greenwood]

Or you've fallen asleep lol

[AnonymousA667]

Or you've fallen asleep lol

Oi, I resemble that remark!

peebeep

[wyverns4]

Hi Jen,

Might have some stuff at home. At work right now so will have to have a look tonight and let you know tomorrow.

Happy modelling

Christian

[John]

I doubt there's much chance that any of these Gladiators were painted Sky - it's too early. Sky Grey is much more likely.

John

[wyverns4]

hi Jen,

As promised, had a look through the library last PM and this is what I found...

(1) Warpaint no. 32:

P. 19, 263 Sqn HE-K in a modified 4 colour counter shade scheme of Dark Green and Medium Sea Grey upper surfaces, Light Green and Sky Grey lower upper surfaces with Sky Grey ½ up the fuselage and (possible) black and white undersurface.

P. 32, The widely published photo of a Gladiator on snow camo'ed by branches. Black and white undersurface visible on top wing. Wheel hubs removed. 2 blade propellor (263 had Mk II which had 3 bladed props; so did it come from a FAA Sea Gladiator, RAF stocks or Norwegan stocks??).

(2) Mason, F.K., 1964, Macdonald Aircraft Monograph's; The Gloster Gladiator, Macdonald, London, 136pp.

P. 71, same as P. 32 above, but larger and clearer. Lower fuselage infront of port u/c leg is a light shade, could it be Sky Grey or Light Green??

(3) Crawford, A. 2002, Mushroom Magazine Special; Gloster Gladiator, Mushroom Modelling Publications, Redbourn, 160pp.

P. 20, Picture of N5641 rebuilt in the Norwegan Air Force Museum, with black and white applied to the lower surface of both wings.

P. 21, Picture of N5379, wreck, black and white on lower surfaces and roundels applied at extreme wing tips on undersurface.

P. 48, Chapter on camo & markings. States that 263 modified their camo by covering the Dark Earth with Medium Grey apart from the lower wings where the Dark earth was replaced by Sky Grey. Type A roundels.

(4) Thomas, A., 2002, Osprey Aircraft of the Aces; No. 44, Gloster Gladiator aces, Osprey Publishing, Oxford, 96pp.

P. 27, Same airframe as (1), P. 19 HE-K, 263 sqn. States that aircraft camoed as stated before

departure.

P. 28 Picture stated as taken during the Norwegan Campaign of Sea Gladiator N2276 H approaching with Sky Grey ½ up fuselage.

(5) Harrison, W.A., 2003, Gloster Gladiator in Action, Squadron/Signals Publication, Texas, 50pp.

P. 23 N5641 HE-G 263 Sqn (in snow therefore very likely to be Noggie land). Original 4 colour counter shadow scheme (Dark Earth, Dark Green, Light Earth, Light Green) with black and white lower surfaces. Serial No. above and in front of tail plane. A1 roundels with yellow ring on fuselage side.

Thats all I have as of now. I still lack access to a scanner but would be more than happy to photocopy and send via snail-mail!

Just doing this little bit of research has got me interested in following up to see what is available about this poorly understood and known campaign... Oh dear what has started!

HTH!

Happy modelling

Christian

[wyverns4]

Hi Jen,

Forgot the bit on colours!

Light Earth; FS 30257; Humbrol 1 part HU94 + 1 part HU63; Tamiya XF-59; Polyscale PCA 828; White Ensign #AC RN 26

Light Green; FS 34096 (34172); Humbrol 6 parts HU116 + 6 parts HU117 + 1 part HU163; Tamiya XF-22(?); White Ensign #AC RN 25

Sky Grey; FS 36463; Humbrol 3 parts HU34 + 2 parts HU126; White Ensign #AC RN 13

Mostly sourced from http://ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff...orcharts_uk.htm

Or using the Cybermodeller web site, http://www.cybermodeler.com/color/ral_acr1.shtml

Light Earth; Humbrol HU063

Light Green; Floquil Polly Scale 505038; Humbrol Hu030

HTH!

Christian

[desmojen]

Excellent stuff Christian!

I have the Aircraft of the Aces book on the way via Amazon now. Paul sent me a scan of the photo in there. It shows exactly what I wanted to do, which is the re-camo using sky grey and dark grey over the original finish. Interesting that you state the aircraft concerned is HE-K since that is what is included in the kit...

The two bladed one may be a Sea Gladiator perhaps? My geocities page states that one of 263's aircraft suffered engine failure on approach to the carrier and ditched. The pilot was killed and the airframe was replaced by a Sea Glady from the carrier. Perhaps that was the one photographed.

As for the colours, I think with the photograph showing the re - camo job I will be going with that one, which means I don't need to worry about light earth and light green!

Looking forward to starting this one now. Started the Bulldog last night and will finish that one first

Jen.

[wyverns4]

Hi Jen,

Glad to be of help!

[The two bladed one may be a Sea Gladiator perhaps? My geocities page states that one of 263's aircraft suffered engine failure on approach to the carrier and ditched. The pilot was killed and the airframe was replaced by a Sea Glady from the carrier. Perhaps that was the one photographed.]

That makes alot of sense, though its a shame that the brush covers so much of the airframe...

[As for the colours, I think with the photograph showing the re - camo job I will be going with that one, which means I don't need to worry about light earth and light green!]

Hmmm, as the greys appeared to be painted over the earth colours I think you will still need Light Green for the upper surface of the lower wing.

I started the Siskin last night too! A lovely, sweet model in bright yellow and light blue!!

happy modelling

Christian

Edited April 10, 2008 by wyverns4

[johnELawson]

Hi guys, quick question for you.

I will very shortly be starting a Roden Gladiator for the 90 years of the RAF GB. I want to do a 263 sqn aircraft from the Battle of Norway. I have read an excellent article on geocities about it which includes some info on colour schemes but unfortunately I cannot link to the photos for some reason. I do have one photo in my Gladiator in action book, but it shows what looks like a grey coming half way up the side, not mentioned in the comments.....? It is also one of the machines from the latter part of the operation where I would rather do one of the earlier ones.

The kit contains markings for a 263 aircraft with no serial which is clearly in RN colours. I quote below a snippet from geocities, I'm particularly interested in the idea of the partial overpaint, otherwise I think I'd like to do the standard RAF four colour camo over black and white.

"The Gladiators of 263 Squadron wore various camouflage schemes. Several aircraft on the 1st expedition wore the four-tone Shadow Shading scheme of Dark Green/Dark Earth upper surface of the top wing, tail plane and top of the fuselage. The top of the lower wing, fuselage sides and tail fin/rudder were Light Green/Light Earth. The under surfaces were Black/White. The other aircraft were in the standard two-tone Dark Green/Dark Earth with either Black/White or Sky undersides. During the voyage out from the UK in April 1940 some Gladiators were repainted in naval colours while still on board Glorious. The Dark Earth was replaced by Medium Sea Grey. The undersides and the fuselage were painted in Sky Grey. The top of the lower wing had the Dark Earth replaced with Sky Grey. Click the next button to see side views, pictures of 263 Squadron aircraft."

Does anyone have any photos or info at all?

Also, what should I use for light earth and light green if I go for the four colour scheme?

Thanks,

Jen.

IPMS Stockholm web site have coloured drawings of Norway Gladiators - you can down load in English and its a very good web site lots of info on most UK subjects

I am a FAA nut and they have lots of colours \ markings on that subject - the Gladiators are in Part1 and part2 articles - hope this is of use.

John Lawson

[Test Graham]

I suspect that the photo of an aircraft with light sides shows the (a?) Sea Gladiator. Sea Gladiators would normally have the three-blade prop, although some did go to the 2-blade. The description of the repainting is interesting but where would the Medium Sea Grey come from on Glorious, why wouldn't they just use FAA colours, and just how much time did they have?

PS you can get Light Earth and Light Green from White Ensign.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Graham Boak

[tonyot]

Just to add my two penneth,

I think that the story of a special Norway scheme comes from the fact that one of the RAF Gladiators would not start up on the carrier and was replaced instead by a Fleet Air Arm Sea Gladiator. This would of course have been painted with Sky Grey on its undersides and sides with the Shadow Shaded Temperate Sea Scheme on its upper surfaces, ie EDSG and Dk Slate Grey with Dark Sea Grey and Light Sea Grey on top of the bottom wings. All of these paints are available from the Xtracolor range apart from Sky Grey which is done by White Ensign.

Once in Norway the squadron codes were painted onto this Sea Gladiator using Medium Sea Grey and this photo is where the confusion lies!

As for the rest of the Gladiators, they would have been standard RAF Dark Earth and Dark Green with the shadow shaded colours mentioned previously on the top of the lower wings and maybe on parts of the fuselage too. As for the underneath they MIGHT have been silver or half black and half white, depending on which batch of aircraft they were as two seperate batches were despatched.

Hope this waffle helps and does not repeat info you already know

All the best

Tony O