A-4 SkyHawks question

[Johnny Red]

Hi all, I have a question about the A-4 SkyHawk what mark and what year did the SkyHawk get that avionics hump on its back, it's the only ones I like , one question more for an aircraft with I believe two guns or cannons how come it wasn't a good dogfighter? and is any one go to be watching the new series of Dogfights on the history channel, recorded the last series I just wish they would put some more dogfights from different countries.

[Stephen]

I think it was from the E&F versions that received the hump.

Stephen

[David_in_Fremont]

You should be able to find tons of good references, pics and research here.

HTH!

[painter]

Probably not a good dogfighter because it was primarily designed as an attack aircraft - hence the A in A4, sorry not being sarcastic just giving a serious answer

Brian

[Johnny Red]

Cheers all, David I'll check that site out , painter no sarcasm taken mate , but if you look a the F-105 scoring, I believe 25% of kills in the vietnam war with it gun and most of them if not all were Mig 17s, and the F-105 was not designed to dogfight, to me the A-4 had far better wings, and a canopy from my point of view far better for looking for what's going on around you,

maybe the pilots were not trained/or told not to dogfight or maybe the A-4 was not use to it full potential

[Antoine]

Where did you read/listen that the scooter was not a good dogfighter???

Just curious.

[moriarty]

Hi Johnny Red,

The A4E was the first to get the Avionics Hump but only half way through the production run. A4F had the hump as standard.A4E deliveries began in January 1963. The A4L an updated A4C for the naval reserves and the A4M for the Marine corps also had the avionics hump.Many of the A4's for export also had it. I hope this helps.

David.

[Johnny Red]

Hey Antoine, I didn't say it wasn't , I ask if it was a good dogfighter, I suppose it depends who's flying them , David that did help cheers mate I must get round to building one now

[Mike in Aotearoa]

Hey Antoine, I didn't say it wasn't , I ask if it was a good dogfighter, I suppose it depends who's flying them , David that did help cheers mate I must get round to building one now

Hi, the hump (as other have said already) was introduced on the E, carried through on the F and M. The Kiwi A-4K's were basically a A-4F with a few mods, notable the square tipped fin and the parabrake housing under the tail pipe. Incidentally, when they were upgraded with the project kahu mods, the humps were removed as they were just an empty shell of the Kiwi one!

As far as dogfighting goes, they were used in this role as well as ground attack and anti-shipping. They usually aquitted themselves rather well against opponents.

I think if they really sucked in that role, the USN wouldn't have used them as aggressors for dogfight training.

My 2c worth

Mike

[Bandwagon 106]

Skyhawks were very good dogfighters, they just had very good escorts in the shape of Phantoms and Crusaders!. Remember, at least one MiG was shot down by a Skyhawk. One definate kill was scored by Lt Schwartz over Kep airfield using zuni rockets!, not guns or sidewinders. Skyhawks have a very high roll rate, what let them down was the guns. Some only carried one, to make space for blackboxes, or reduced ammo loads

Even in the electric jet age, a scooter flown by a capable pilot in an adversary squadron could beat a fighter 15 years its junior. The A-4M had a proper HUD and a HOTAS system

The Thuds had to kill MiGs out of necessity, the Skyhawks had such good fighter cover that they could concentrate on their job of ground pounding. A large number of early A-4Es had the hump retrofitted after the introduction of the Fox, and many had an uprated engine fitted. Interesting also, is the fact that its sucessor, the Corsair 2 could handle itself pretty well. During the huge dogfight on 10th May 1972 involving VF-96, a corsair pilot got a bit too inquisitive with some Migs!

Joel

Edited March 1, 2008 by Bandwagon 106

[aeroplanedriver]

Given that the Top Gun folks used them for DACT, I've always assumed it was fairly decent as a dogfighter. The problem is it is more desirable to kill the enemy before he gets close enough for a dogfight.

As far as the F-105 goes, it had a large proportion of gun kills because that was all it had available. Thud drivers didn't go out looking for Migs to kill with the gun, they just happened to be lucky enough to have the gun when the opportunity arose.