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RAF to borrow RC-135s?


Dave Fleming

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Looks like GB Ltd is spent out...in reality, the fact that we're even looking forward to the R1 (how old is the basic airframe design?) is a sad indictment of the UK aerospace industry (or lack of)......defence budget? You're 'avin a Giraffe!

I could start a mini rant here about how much it will cost to produce 'Welcome to the UK' packs for migrants but I would get censured....... :angry::shutup:

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If the expensive part of the procurement is the ELINT Kit could it be fitted in an Airbus A330 as we're eventually getting a tanker version of the airframe?

Richard

Regrettably because of the complete f-bottom that is FSTA we would never get approval to put the R1 kit into the A330 - that is security approval. Remember that the RAF won't actually own the FSTA, they will remain the property of AirTanker, there are still security issues with that on FSTA - secure comms/JTIDS/DAS etc on a civvie owned platform.

Actually the A330 is probably far too capable for what we need as an R1 replacement - too capable in terms of size rather than range or endurance.

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The article below from Jane's suggests the R.1 is indeed in danger but that the Helix mission system will be installed in whatever they come up with as an alternative. Doesn't sound quite as bleak as it could be....

UK considers alternatives to Nimrod R.1 upgrade

By Tim Ripley

18 January 2008

Safety concerns have prompted moves to significantly reorganise UK plans to upgrade Royal Air Force (RAF) British Aerospace Nimrod R.1 electronic intelligence (ELINT)-gathering aircraft and to start efforts to find an alternative platform.

The loss of a RAF Nimrod MR.2 maritime patrol aircraft - which has the same airframe as the R.1 variant - in a mid-air fire over Afghanistan in September 2006 was subsequently linked by investigators to safety problems with the aircraft's fuel systems. Jane's understands that this has forced the UK to think again about the GBP400 million (USD786 million) Project Helix to sustain the three-strong Nimrod R.1 fleet in service until 2025.

UK military sources have told Jane's that alternative platforms are now being considered and proposals have been made in the current defence spending round to secure additional funding to allow the Helix mission system to be installed in a different airframe.

Following a competition against Lockheed Martin, US company L-3 Communications was selected in April 2007 to upgrade the Nimrod R.1s and was awarded a GBP11 million assessment contract by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD).

In a tightly worded statement an MoD spokeswoman moved away from the commitment to upgrade the R.1s. She told Jane's that the MoD was "currently assessing a range of options and it is too early to get into details.

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Remember how we were supposed to get 21 MRA4s, then it became 18, then 15 and now 12. Well that leaves a few airframes for......

Nimrod R5 anyone??

Well the way we love throwing money at BAES, and the ever delayed signing on FSTA, how about Nimrog K5... :angrysoapbox.sml:

It's be in service by the time the 10's run out of hours...

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well, this is interesting news. my mate is on 51 with the R1's so i will have to give him a buzz about this.

as for the RC-12's, they have been integrated into the UK forces for a while now. they were very frequent users of Basrah when i was out there last year, usually parked next to the AAC Islanders

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The 51 Sqn boys and girls were informed about this just before Xmas by the Chief of the Air Staff out in theatre and his announcement was met with a blunt response.

Rumour has it a number of aircrew were hauled before OC 51 for not showing a positive attitude.

The fact remain the RC135 Rivet Joints are no were near as capable as the R1s a fact recognised by the Americans.

The RC 135 are as old as the R1s and the sevicablity rate is just as bad.

News flash MR4As project is way behind its in service date and costs are still climbing don't be surprised when the MR4As get shelved this year.

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Yet another news flash about MRA4 two of the currently flying three Mra4`s have major fuel tank leaks which has lead to one of them being jacked up in a hangar at Warton for the last god knows how long! Shortly both of these trouble MRA4`s will be signed off to do one flight to Woodford for a look over by factory. Meanwhile the only airworthy MRA4 had to put down on the Azores after an equipment fault meant it couldn`t continue its flight to the USA.

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....as for the RC-12's, they have been integrated into the UK forces for a while now. they were very frequent users of Basrah when i was out there last year, usually parked next to the AAC Islanders

Hi Paul,

Don't know of any pics of them anywhere do you? Tried googling, but found nowt.....

Cheers

Keef

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as for the RC-12's, they have been integrated into the UK forces for a while now

Not convinced about that Paul. The first two 350ERs are in the UK for conversion but have not yet been delivered. Ours are not going to be RC12s.

Got any piccies?

Edited by Roland Pulfrew
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I think Paul is referring to the US Army RC-12s that have been integrated in Southern Iraq. The 350s are destined for Afghanistan. King Air AL2 (with the 45 Sqn ones becoming T1s?)

yeah, sorry about that. i forgot to say they are US Army ones. but working with the Brits

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How many of you realise that the Nimrod MRA4 is a Boeing project BAe is only prime contractor see the following link to Boeing's website

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/ic/nimrod

RC-135 over Nimrod R1 talk about history repeating itself, with all these Green taxes the government is imposing are they going to insist on the RC135's with CFM-56's,

Strikes me of just another example of Britain throwing money at the Yanks Economy :angrysoapbox.sml:

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It is about time to have an look at the Dutch air force! They have bought used DC-10's and let them convert to tankers! Now we have 2 tankers and one later bought DC-10 with passenger configuration. Buying new airbus or boeing is way too expensive. Better look in the airline industry with low flying time airbus or boeing and buy those. Marshal Aerospace can do the job in converting them and in the end the RAF has their NEW tankers and much cheaper than Air Tanker can offer and no discussions on what to install or not! :angrysoapbox.sml:

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How many of you realise that the Nimrod MRA4 is a Boeing project BAe is only prime contractor see the following link to Boeing's website

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/ic/nimrod

RC-135 over Nimrod R1 talk about history repeating itself, with all these Green taxes the government is imposing are they going to insist on the RC135's with CFM-56's,

Strikes me of just another example of Britain throwing money at the Yanks Economy :angrysoapbox.sml:

Er, the prime contractor is the person in charge of the whole project! Boeing is just the tactical command system integrator. It's a BAE project, not a Boeing project.

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It is about time to have an look at the Dutch air force! They have bought used DC-10's and let them convert to tankers! Now we have 2 tankers and one later bought DC-10 with passenger configuration. Buying new airbus or boeing is way too expensive. Better look in the airline industry with low flying time airbus or boeing and buy those. Marshal Aerospace can do the job in converting them and in the end the RAF has their NEW tankers and much cheaper than Air Tanker can offer and no discussions on what to install or not! :angrysoapbox.sml:

Tri Star ring any bells?

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yup but did not think on that. But not an impossible idea I think to get secondhand low hours boeing or airbus. saves money and it works ok and above all the government/RAF has full control when needed. I wonder if that is the case with AirTanker ltd.

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I just despair at this government. I was once a staunch supporter but what they are doing to our armed forces is appaling. I feel that the powers that be are turning our forces into what is a second rate force, not because our people are not capable (i will stand by the fact that the training is probably the best in the world!) but because our politicians listen too much to the 'blue sky thinking' of senior civil servants and not enough to what is going on in reality. It is also a shame that our top brass do not take a firmer stance in support of their respective services rather than accepting what is pushed their way. We never learn from history and i fear that the penny pinching will one day come back to bite us in a big way!!!

Why our government could not have included a Nimrod R.1 upgrade within that for the MRA4 from the begining i do not know as lack of airframes should not have been a problem with the continual reduction in the size of the fleet. Many lesser air forces have their own ELINT fleet and it is crazy that we will now have to rely on our american cousins because there is apparently no money in the coffers to pay for the upgrade of such a capable asset.

Rant over!!!

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