Nearlymen

A-ha ! This is why I like this forum, you always get just that little bit of extra info that helps a great deal ! Thanks Graham that explained everything nicely, and a quick follow up to 303sqdn, with invasion stripes then you shouldn't have the striped spinner, if so what was the front cowling and spinner colour ? Was it just plain white ? Plain red ? Or just camo ? Cheers and thanks for the answers Clive

Hi, I've picked up one of the ICM 1/48 RAF Mustang III kits and I'm rather taken by the 316 sqdn polish scheme in d-day stripes with a red/white spinner, but I've a query about the d-day stripes application that someone out there may be able to help me with ? The artwork on the instructions shows a white stripe on the upper surfaces of the elevators, and a quick trawl around th web brings up some photos showing such stripes. Thing is though what happens on the under surface ? Some built models have no stripes on the underside of the elevators, some have a white stripe, but the box artwork for the ICM mustang shows a black and white stripe under the elevator (port side), also the instructions for the trumpeter 1/32 mk III show this black and white stripe on the underside of the elevator whilst the other has just a single white stripe ? I'm curious, does anyone have some back story info on the elevator stripe applications on RAF mustangs ? I'd be interested to know a little more ! Cheers Clive

It's a great story behind this particular airframe, funnily enough the reason why this particular aircraft appealed to me was that the 393rd were based at Stoney Cross which is just down the road from me in Salisbury, so there is a fairly local interest factor as well. I too enjoy researching my models before building and if I have a question........well...I post it here ! Thanks all for the help much appreciated ! Cheerio Clive

Hi A quickie question ! I've picked up the print scale 1/48 decal set P-38 Aces over Europe pt 2 and I'm quite taken by the scheme for Scrapiron IV. Alas the info sheet that comes with the decals only has a side elev and I could do with some advice regarding the D Day stripes. In the side elev the stripes are shown only on the underside of the twin tail booms and because the pic is in side elev you can only see the stripes on the underside of the wings. My question is........In Nov 1944 did P-38's still have the stripes on the top surface of the wings or were they removed ? I've seen a few models with no stripes on the top, but cant find any firm text/evidence to say if they were removed or not after D day. Any help much appreciated Cheers Clive

Thanks for the extra info, very illuminating ! Still confusing though, but I guess its the old adage 'If theres no photo, then it didn't happen' ! LOL ! If any more info turns up then please post as I'm sure others are curious as well. All the best Clive

Hi AaCee Yep I've got that book, and frustratingly there are no pics, but it does say some early IL28T were supplied to the chinese before they stated to build them as the H5 and the wings were plumbed for tanks I believe. Alas though the lack of pics is a downer, but hey ho its a challenge ! I think I'll build it with the wing mounted torpedoes and wing tip tanks.....that way a photo is bound to turn up showing they never had them LOL !! Cheerio Clive

On a bit of a whim I purchased the new Bobcat 1/48 IL28T kit and really liked the look of building it as the Harbin H5 decal option in the kit. This particular option has torpedoes under the wings and wing tip tanks which looked a great combination ! But.......... This is where things started to go a bit fuzzy ! First off I can find no pics of Chinese H5's carrying torpedoes ? I know they did but no pics ? I noticed that although the painting guide shows wing tip tanks, within the instructions is a note saying to omit the tanks on the chinese versions which is a slight contradiction. So did any H5's ever have wing tip tanks ? Again I can find no pics ? The tail turret in the kit is a std russian ball turret as fitted to the IL28, but as far as I can see the H5 had a turret design borrowed from a TU-16 ? Did any chinese airframes have the std IL28 tail turret ? The colour scheme says white/silver, I'm guessing that some BW photos have mistaken silver for white, as again I can only find one pic of a chinese airframe in white, any clarification on this would be much appreciated ! I have a feeling that my chosen option may not be quite correct, i.e. the wing tip tanks and the tail turret type, colour etc but I'm hoping answers to these queries might be forthcoming on this website ! So then chaps thinking caps on and over to you ! Cheerio Clive

NPL said "Maybe if it is about modelling you get more from your money than from less expensive kits" Yep you've hit the nail on the head there, and said it in a much more concise way than my verbal ramblings ! I think it's all down to your personal approach to creating the finished result. If you get enjoyment from chopping and changing things to make a model 'Your Own' then cheaper kits are going to be more attractive. If you don't like chopping and changing then the more expensive kits may tempt you more..............................Oh dear rambling again !! LOL !! I think just I'll stick with what NPL said ! Cheerio Clive

I totally agree with the 'Frustration' of these large expensive kits. I have a longing for ( hmmm actually it maybe lust ! ha ha !!) for the HPH 1/48 B-36, but the cost is astronomic, plus I'd have nowhere to put it alas it still doesn't stop the wanting....sigh ! That's interesting about WNW and their Lanc. If that turns out to be right, I think it will tempt people to go for it. Being second into the market with a product can have it's advantages. I wonder if WNW will make the production run the same size as their WW1 kits and go for the collectable/limited edition market or make the run larger and in effect raise the company profile even more ? It's a really interesting time for the large scale market. Mind you though if Hobby Boss got it's act together and put out a large scale but dimensionally accurate model whilst keeping their pricing I can't help but think they'd clean up the market, but maybe that's just wishful thinking ! Cheerio Clive

Just a quick note ! By the time I got around to formulating my ideas for reshaping the wings, I found out that Iain (32 SIG) over at the large scale planes forum was running with a very similar approach and to his credit has ploughed on with it and is making great strides with this kit. If you interested see :- https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/78152-hobbyboss-132-liberator-gr-mkvi-raf-coastal-command/ Cheers Clive

I have to admit I too think HK models are somewhat overpriced for what they are. I like them, but wince at the price. I bought the do-335 (love that aircraft) and whilst it's a nice kit, it was expensive for what it was and to be honest I wish Revell Germany had done it, as their range of 1/32 kits were competitively priced and had excellent potential. Until recently you could pick up a Revell Germany 1/32 Ju-88 for under 40 pounds ! (Then they got greedy, put motors and lights in it and wanted silly money !). To be honest had Hobby Boss made a better job of the Libs wing profile, and sorted the turrets, it would have been the value for money kit of the year for everyone and is to me it still is, alas those two sloppy errors makes it a target for the nay sayers. I can buy two liberators and still have money for aftermarket parts for the price of one HK lancaster,The problem is whether you consider yourself a modeller or a model assembler (and both approaches are fine so lets not argue that). If your a modeller and willing to chop and change things to suit then the Libs probably one of the best value for money kits of last year (this is where I stand), the HK Lancaster... well not so much. If though your more of an assembler and want things near as damn it perfect from the box so you can just get on and enjoy the build, then the Lancaster may well be worth it to you, for me though... not so much ! Yep! you've guessed it....'It's Horses for Courses' ! Of course if you can live with a little in-accuracy and you just want to build something 'BIG' then the Lib represents great value for money. Notice something ? I didn't mention tooling, parts count and research costs ! I wouldn't be surprised to find that actually the costing process isn't that different between companies but actual costs comes down to where it was done, how it was done and time constraints. Tooling for these big kits will be approx the same, as they all have large size parts and and large parts counts. The CAD stage will be approx the same when it comes to detailing prior to cutting the moulds, it's the research that makes or breaks it, spend huge amounts in Pre-production (this is where time constraints come in), then get the product late to market by which time your competitor releases another version and recouping the cost becomes difficult unless you increase the cost for lower production runs, or have cheaper large production runs. In the case of HK Models and Hobbyboss it would be interesting to know their individual production processes (we don't so we can only speculate). Then you've got where it was made for labour costs etc. this changes as the economic situation around the world changes. It would take a bit of digging to find out the stories behind HK and HB to get a better idea of where the costs come from. We don't have that so it all comes down to your individual........ 'Perceived Value'. And that only the individual can quantify ! Mind you.................. It will get interesting when WNW release their Lanc to see where they pitch the pricing, will it be as low as Hobby Boss (I very much doubt it) will it be considerably lower than HK models, a little number crunching maybe in order from WNW.? I think so. My LMS has a HK lanc in the window and one on the shelf in the shop, people look at it admire it, but the price tag is 399.99 pounds, they sold pre orders, but how long it takes to shift the display ones is anybodies guess. Finally I will just say what's in the HK models box is fine, it looks like a lanc, quacks like a lanc, it's lanc ! It's just the cost I have issues with. The Hobby boss Lib looks like a Lib(but with a slightly odd wing and turret), quacks like a Lib, it's a Lib but at a great price. Oh the dilemma, LOL !! Oh well that's my two penneth worth ! Cheerio Clive

Hi Thepureness ! (neat name by the way !) Yep the instructions don't allow for the wings to come off but.......Instructions are just mere guides to life ! ha ha ! There are two large holed spigots that come down from the underside of each of the upper wings which pass through the big chunky fuselage main spar. These spigots then somehow I assume are to be glued to the strange recessed hex head indentations in the lower wing half ? (This is what makes me feel that maybe the original intention was to use self tappers here ? Who knows !). What I'm thinking is trim the btm of the spigots flush with the top of the spar, glue some sheets packers inside the wing to keep it all tight, ship shape and Bristol fashion so that you can just slide the wings off and on ! Of course until somebody gets cracking on one of these kits we won't know quite how good the fit is but the spar looks chunky and the internal ribbing on the wings looks like it the wings are fairly rigid so hopefully some can be easily concocted from what we've already got and some stock sheet without too much hard work. Just putting an idea out there ! Also had an idea how to partially correct the upper wing profile in a kind of Japser Maskelyne way i.e. it wouldn't be quite right but it would fool the eye a little ! Personally I won't be messing with the wings but after Christmas I'll put the idea out there once I've got it sorted a bit more in my head ! Might start a new topic in the WW2 section for ideas to improve the kit. Anyway I smell Turkey...........Mmmmm Turkey !!! Cheerio Clive

Hi Tony, Hope your well ! I too would like to see some RAF decals or even better RCAF ! In Carl Vincents book 'Canada's Wings Vol @ Liberator and Fortress' there are loads of nice options for RCAF examples. When Hobby boss eventually release the 24D the option to do the GR.V becomes a possibility, as I said before Ugly but nice with the dumbo nose. As for the B24J Fair in the Nose and tail turrets and you can easily do a RCAF Lib C. You know me I'm a FAA, seafire bloke really but I couldn't resist the charm of a big Lib ! Had a closer look in the box today and something struck me, and that's the engineering is looking to be actually quite good but there is something odd regarding the main wing spars and the wings themselves. In the wing is a hex socket that looks like it was meant to hold a screw captive with access from the underside wing surface. It's not mentioned in the instructions but it looks as though originally that may have been the intention. What ever though the holes get covered by the inner lower nacelle halves so can't quite see why ? But whatever I reckon you can juggle the fixing to make the wings detachable for storage. I look forward to hearing other peoples comments, and ideas. I keep an eye on LSP but they seem to have gone a little down the 'Shock Horror route' with some of the comments and have missed the point that there is a huge amount of potential fun in the kit and I'm sure despite it's oddness in some areas some people will do great things with it and I look forward to seeing their ingenuity to overcome some of the flaws, hey ! I might even nick a few ideas myself !! LOL !! Have a great Christmas Cheerio Clive

Hi JohnT, Yep when hobbyboss releases the B24D then like you say one of the issues will go away (providing they don't unleash any new mess ups on us !). I have a soft spot for all Libs to be honest and I wouldn't mind a D since you could convert that to an RCAF GR.V with the dumbo nose, kind of ugly but nice ! A couple of more things about the kit, the main wings, if your worried about supporting such a huge structure, on the internal surfaces there are huge internal braces moulded in and a big box spar that goes in the fuselage. I don't think it's going to flex at all ! If your a person who can't live with the wing shape then the internal bracing may cause you some problems if you fancy chopping things about. It's a little odd since the box art shows the Davis wing profile but in the kit it's a much flatter aerofoil section. How you would change that may involve a bit of a compromise by keeping the underside and leading edges as is and building up the upper surface so that it falls away to the trailing edge, whatever it wouldn't be straight forward and like I said I'm not that bothered so I'm ignoring it . As for the turrets, if a aftermarket guy was looking at this I'd assemble the turret glazing as is, then polish out the seams then take the dremmel (or similar) and chop them to be as per the 1/72 kit (Hasagawa ?) then recast in Clear resin. I don't have the facility to do this at home but I can't see it being a problem for the aftermarket boys. In fact it's something I'd imagine they will jump on pretty quickly. The tyres are in rubber, to be honest I've never been a fan of the things but I see already in the pipeline are resin replacements, so the aftermarket is stirring. There are 34 stages in the construction of the kit the manual looks easy on the eye to read and there is a fair amount of internal detail. I'm not a great fan of internal detail and tend to go down the route of if you can't see it then don't bother, but there's enough there to get the guys who like that type of thing a head start. The more I look at it it does have the feel of a supersized monogram kit, but with recessed panel lines and rivets no bad thing and like I said the balance of detail vs cost is about right. Anyway when you guys get your hands on a kit post your own feelings here and we can compare notes ! Now its time to forget this modelling lark and get on with Christmas....I hear the pub a calling !!! Happy Christmas All Cheerio Clive

I nearly got my hands on one on Friday, but Parcelforce didn't turn up ! But.....they did today !! Now normally I don't do big scale kits but I do dabble occasionally, and today my first reaction was...f.f...f...flippin 'ell is that big !! Opening the box the first thing you see is the fuselage halves and they are the biggest bits of injection moulding kit i've ever seen, then underneath are the upper and lower wings (both huge) then a box of PE, clear, rubber wheels, a centre portion of the box filled with bits and bobs, and another box filled with other bits n bobs ( too many bits n bobs to list). After reading various tales of woe on the web the mouldings are.....well quite nice, nice panel lines and rivets, quite restrainted if I'm honest ...I like it. Over all it looks nice. Now that it's in my hot little hands I can say the interior detail is fine, not super detailed, more old Monogram plus a bit ! The cockpit looks fine , needs a bit of TLC, some seat belts maybe some micro strip here and there but in this large scale a bit of home detailing is so much easier, so I don't see it as a big issue. There are a few elephants in the room though, yes the wing root profile is off a bit, do I care ? to be honest ....nope ! I can understand it will infuriate some but to me it looks ok. Now the engines, reading reports online you would have thought the world ended with the engines but having the instructions I can now see how they all go together with a front and rear half with a PE ignition harness on the front, once assembled dry brushed and washed they'll be passable, not super detailed but passable. The turrets, hmmm now these are a problem and came up with something I wasn't expecting ! The join lines are a la the old 1/48 monogram kit, bang smack down the middle of the glazing, less noticeable in the rear turret, but very noticeable in the front. But to further compound the problem the whole of the front turret is...slightly frosted ! Why I know not. The interiors of the turrets though are far better than I was expecting which is a bonus. Instructions and decals look fine, how accurate they are is up to you references, some libs had added armour plate around the cockpit etc so be aware of that but thats why sheets of plastic card were invented LOL !! Now come my thoughts on the whole package and this is where it gets tricky. I do think for this size of kit Hobby boss have got the pricing bang on, in the UK you can pick them up for between 135 to 149 pounds, get one at the lower price and your laughing. But...they have let themselves down with the great china production flaw...sloppy research ! Had they modelled the turrets better and got the wing section profile better, then I'd have given it 10 out of 10 for value, as it is you get a great kit, but slightly flawed, it's up to you decide how far to take it. Personally Eventually when I make it I'll sort out the turrets somehow and that will be it, the rest I can happily live with. (eventually the after market crowd will be all over this I suspect so again in the long run I doubt it will be a problem). I've seen some people online say for a kit of this size they want the earth, but they don't seem the to consider the value. Now us blokes have for years been telling the women in our lives 'It's not how big it is, it's what you do with it', and now I feel it's time to shut up and put up the same with models like this. Enjoy what you've got, and if you consider yourself a modeller then sort it out ! You have though to eventually compare this kit with the HK Lancaster. Is the lanc a better kit ? I would surmise yes, but at 399 pounds from Hannants its nowhere near 250 pounds better than the lib and suddenly he lanc seems very over priced for what it is. So my overall rating for this monster liberator ? I'd say 7.5/8 out of 10, correctly priced for what you get but could do better next time round !! Whatever though............I like it Cheerio Clive